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#21
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(no subject)
On Nov 27, 9:58*pm, lucretia borgia
wrote: On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:44:05 -0800 (PST), opined: On Nov 27, 1:45 pm, lucretia borgia wrote: Likely, plus the fiendish part was maybe she could have been saved if he hadn't run off to save his own neck first and foremost, leaving her to slowly drown in the vehicle. Were you there? Elizabeth Yes. Bull. Fresh medial coverage does NOT count as being there. Elizabeth |
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#22
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(no subject)
On Nov 28, 7:14*am, "Fred" wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:33:39 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 27, 8:26 pm, Jangchub wrote: He didn't murder her, he was cheating on his wife and left the scene and reported it hours later. *It doesn't make it better, but I think the Kennedy's *have had their fair share of early deaths, particularly John. Actually, he didn't report it. *The fishermen who found the car did. But there's all sorts of weirdness around that accident and I don't think anyone (including Kennedy himself) is in a position to conclusively say what happened that night. Elizabeth True, but my main point was the Kennedy's have had their fair share of early deaths, two of which were assasinations. *I think I was just short of being old enough to remember the situation with Mary Jo, but my hubs is a Kennedy Conspiracy buff. Victoria I never liked the conspiracy angle. Get 5 or 6 Greek men together and ask them who had J.F.K. killed and they will all tell you, "Onassis", who later found out his prize was dead in bed. Actually the only two that more or less gained were Hoover and Johnson and they didn't have to spend a dime. I found it strange that Oswald who tried to shoot the govenor weeks earlier and missed was credited with shooting J.F.K. who was a moving target and way further away. Oswald was a lousy shot who couldn't hit the govenor from fifty feet even though the govenor was sitting in his chair reading a newspaper. My thoughts - Oswald was paid to bring the rifle to the depository. The real shooter meets Oswald on the third? floor. The real shooter wearing gloves does what he was paid to do and hands the rifle back to Oswald and tells Oswald to hide the rifle and to follow him. Oswald stashes the rifle and attempts to follow the real shooter but runs into the cop who is on his way up. This delays Oswald long enough that by the time he exits the back door the real shooter is driving away in the station wagon leaving Oswald whose finger prints are all over the rifle behind to face the music. The get-away vehicle is gone and Oswald realizes he has been set up and panics. The rest is history - sort of - I think that if Oswald had made it to the get-away car the real shooter or driver would sooner or later have snuffed him out.. I have often wondered if the same station wagon picked up the other guy that was on the grassy knoll. Face it - Oswald was not a complete idiot. If he planned everything himself he would surely have planned a better get-away.. The guys in the station wagon now have a problem because Oswald is still alive and could talk so Ruby is called upon to take Oswald out. All makes for interesting conversation - eh wot?? I'm confused, Fred. You say you never liked the conspiracy angle, but you have a conspiracy yourself? Elizabeth |
#23
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(no subject)
On Nov 28, 6:04*am, lucretia borgia
wrote: On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:14:49 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski opined: wrote: I think that there's something very hypocritical about being so upset about Mary Jo Kopechne because she had a name and photos and not being more upset about thousands of Iraqi families bombed as "collateral damage" during this war, simply because they don't have names and photos. Elizabeth Thank you. Dianne Except Dianne, I never said I was not sympathetic to the Iraqis. * I don't believe I was talking to you specifically. But almost 40 years later, people are still having a fit about Mary Jo Kopechne and it seems like people don't get nearly as upset about the millions of people killed since then. I have trouble with the disproportionality of that. It bothers me, especially since she was clearly not the poor, innocent thing that people like to make her out to be. It bothers me that Kennedy was never tried by a jury of his peers and is therefore to be considered innocent yet public opinion has no problem condemning him in spite of the enormous good he's accomplished in the 40 years since then. Public opinion, in general, will at the same time allow Bush to get away with the senseless murder of thousands or at least not condemn him as roundly, because there are no names and photographs, no huge media hype. Elizabeth |
#24
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(no subject)
On Nov 28, 12:05*pm, lucretia borgia
wrote: On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:31:07 -0800 (PST), opined: Actually, he didn't report it. *The fishermen who found the car did.. But there's all sorts of weirdness around that accident and I don't think anyone (including Kennedy himself) is in a position to conclusively say what happened that night. Elizabeth He was clearly driving, they left together. *Car in water, panic, runs to find the Kennedy fixer. *She drowns. * Um, none of that is actually clear. *It's all based on his testimony from the next day and we don't know which of it is actually true. *He could have been framed and participated in his own framing for all any of us know. I think he did report it, accompanied with his lawyer, the next morning. And as long as we're doling out responsibility, if the deputy who saw the car back out of the drive and go speeding down the road to the right had given chase or even bothered to investigate at all, he would have seen the car in the water. *Why didn't he do his job? *Did he get demoted or fined for dereliction of duty? Didn't he go from one jurisdiction to another when he reached that bridge ? Nor was Kopechne a "girl." *She was a 29 year old professional who had already been up to her ears in Washington politics. *People other than Kennedy had plenty of reason to want her dead. Elizabeth Unfortunately, she is very dead which certainly was helpful to Kennedy. Sure, but that doesn't mean he purposely murdered her. Elizabeth |
#25
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(no subject)
wrote in message ... On Nov 28, 12:05 pm, lucretia borgia wrote: On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:31:07 -0800 (PST), opined: Actually, he didn't report it. The fishermen who found the car did. But there's all sorts of weirdness around that accident and I don't think anyone (including Kennedy himself) is in a position to conclusively say what happened that night. Elizabeth He was clearly driving, they left together. Car in water, panic, runs to find the Kennedy fixer. She drowns. Um, none of that is actually clear. It's all based on his testimony from the next day and we don't know which of it is actually true. He could have been framed and participated in his own framing for all any of us know. I think he did report it, accompanied with his lawyer, the next morning. And as long as we're doling out responsibility, if the deputy who saw the car back out of the drive and go speeding down the road to the right had given chase or even bothered to investigate at all, he would have seen the car in the water. Why didn't he do his job? Did he get demoted or fined for dereliction of duty? Didn't he go from one jurisdiction to another when he reached that bridge ? Nor was Kopechne a "girl." She was a 29 year old professional who had already been up to her ears in Washington politics. People other than Kennedy had plenty of reason to want her dead. Elizabeth Unfortunately, she is very dead which certainly was helpful to Kennedy. Sure, but that doesn't mean he purposely murdered her. Elizabeth I have always thought that he was most probably too drunk to have a clue what really happened. Why he was allowed to get in the car in the first place is a mystery. IIRC it was his driver's car and he took the keys. I do believe he caused a terrible tragedy and I believe he wasn't punished the way someone else from another less influential and rich family might have been, but I still think that 40 years later is time to forget. Not forgive, just go on to the next. There was an incident some years ago with Skagel (I'm not sure that's spelled correctly) a cousin of his who allegedly murdered a teenage girl with a gun. I don't remember the details but they can be looked up. He did go to trial and was convicted but his rich and influential family had the conviction overturned. He was retried a few years ago but never spent a day in jail and lives here in South Florida doing absolutely nothing of redeeming value. Him I still feel disgusted by. Lucille |
#26
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(no subject)
"lucretia borgia" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:36:42 -0500, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net opined: I have always thought that he was most probably too drunk to have a clue what really happened. Why he was allowed to get in the car in the first place is a mystery. IIRC it was his driver's car and he took the keys. I do believe he caused a terrible tragedy and I believe he wasn't punished the way someone else from another less influential and rich family might have been, but I still think that 40 years later is time to forget. Not forgive, just go on to the next. There was an incident some years ago with Skagel (I'm not sure that's spelled correctly) a cousin of his who allegedly murdered a teenage girl with a gun. I don't remember the details but they can be looked up. He did go to trial and was convicted but his rich and influential family had the conviction overturned. He was retried a few years ago but never spent a day in jail and lives here in South Florida doing absolutely nothing of redeeming value. Him I still feel disgusted by. Lucille Whatever Ethel's maiden name was, that's the name you (and I) are looking for, they are a family of lawyers I believe. It happened on Halloween. The name is Skakel and yes, that's the jerk I'm talking about. Then don't forget the William Smith episode - can't be all this smoke and no fire. Huge wealth and power corrupts. As to William Smith, I have no idea what happened to him so it's apparent he isn't doing anything to make the world a better place either. .. |
#27
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(no subject)
"lucretia borgia" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:36:42 -0500, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net opined: I have always thought that he was most probably too drunk to have a clue what really happened. Why he was allowed to get in the car in the first place is a mystery. IIRC it was his driver's car and he took the keys. I do believe he caused a terrible tragedy and I believe he wasn't punished the way someone else from another less influential and rich family might have been, but I still think that 40 years later is time to forget. Not forgive, just go on to the next. There was an incident some years ago with Skagel (I'm not sure that's spelled correctly) a cousin of his who allegedly murdered a teenage girl with a gun. I don't remember the details but they can be looked up. He did go to trial and was convicted but his rich and influential family had the conviction overturned. He was retried a few years ago but never spent a day in jail and lives here in South Florida doing absolutely nothing of redeeming value. Him I still feel disgusted by. Lucille Whatever Ethel's maiden name was, that's the name you (and I) are looking for, they are a family of lawyers I believe. It happened on Halloween. Then don't forget the William Smith episode - can't be all this smoke and no fire. Huge wealth and power corrupts. I googled William Smith to see what he has been doing for the last few years. He's a doctor and apparently he's doing rehab with victims of landmines so he's at least trying to do something good. |
#28
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(no subject)
"lucretia borgia" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:23:18 -0500, "Lucille" lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net opined: I googled William Smith to see what he has been doing for the last few years. He's a doctor and apparently he's doing rehab with victims of landmines so he's at least trying to do something good. Sheesh, sometimes my memory still works. Yes, that is good works, not that he caused a death. Gee--I would have known you meant that without the disclaimer! RD&H |
#29
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(no subject)
"lucretia borgia" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:40:08 -0600, Jangchub opined: Do you have any idea how fast a car goes into the water? Even if he immediately called for help she'd have died. People die all the time here in TX where we have flash floods with just about every hard rain. People insist on driving over one inch of water to their death. Water drags you down toot sweet. I'm not saying Ted was an angel, but he certainly didn't preclude her safety by leaving. It takes seconds, not minutes to drown. Victoria You are comparing apples to oranges. A car swept by flood waters is entirely different to one going off the road into water and gently settling down into same. I think you're correct. Every few months we have a news story about a car driving into a canal here in FL. It's very easy when your speeding along I-95, where the speed limit is 75, to go off the road and into the water. A lot of the time there is actually enough time to get out of the car and swim to the surface. They even sell a little gizmo to put in the car that supposedly will break the window even under the pressure of the water. L |
#30
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(no subject)
On 11/28/08 3:25 PM, in article , "Lucille"
lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote: "lucretia borgia" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:40:08 -0600, Jangchub opined: Do you have any idea how fast a car goes into the water? Even if he immediately called for help she'd have died. People die all the time here in TX where we have flash floods with just about every hard rain. People insist on driving over one inch of water to their death. Water drags you down toot sweet. I'm not saying Ted was an angel, but he certainly didn't preclude her safety by leaving. It takes seconds, not minutes to drown. Victoria You are comparing apples to oranges. A car swept by flood waters is entirely different to one going off the road into water and gently settling down into same. I think you're correct. Every few months we have a news story about a car driving into a canal here in FL. It's very easy when your speeding along I-95, where the speed limit is 75, to go off the road and into the water. A lot of the time there is actually enough time to get out of the car and swim to the surface. They even sell a little gizmo to put in the car that supposedly will break the window even under the pressure of the water. L We sell lots of those "life hammers" at work. Cheryl |
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