A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Textiles newsgroups » Yarn
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

What to do if you think you have a new crochet technique?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 20th 04, 03:23 PM
TheMage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What to do if you think you have a new crochet technique?

Hello,

I have been in touch with a few people about this but I haven't thrown
the question out into the world like this before...

What do you do if you think you have a new crochet technique? What is
the usual route you follow, and any alternatives?

I want to share it with everyone, but I'm afraid of it being stolen
before I get it properly published... and then after publication, I'm
concerned that it might not reach a wide enough group of people. If
it is stolen... too bad, I'm not paying a lawyer to get it back. I've
never been a pro crocheter, or even a pro crafter, so oh well... but
I don't want my one good idea to be lost.

The Mage
Ads
  #3  
Old June 22nd 04, 10:29 AM
CMM PDX2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Mage wrote:
snippage
What do you do if you think you have a new crochet
technique? What is the usual route you follow, and any
alternatives?

I want to share it with everyone, but I'm afraid of it being stolen
before I get it properly published... and then after publication,
I'm concerned that it might not reach a wide enough group of
people.


Well, first suggestion, after Els' excellent advice to research and make sure
it *is* new, is to submit an article explaining it, with a sample project
pattern write-up (better chance of selling the article), to a crafts magazine.
(after finding out how they want submissions sent and all that.) Not only do
you get credit and payment - albeit not much, since writers usually get
something between 5-10 cents a word - but it does get published. To find out
how to submit and who to contact at any particular magazine, check their
website, or buy a copy of the mag and look in their listings of contacts, etc.
Then write, email or call them about it. Actually, any receptionist at a
publication should have all that info; you probably wouldn't have to try to
track down a specific editor or department. S/he's probably got it memorized,
and could tell you, or mail you submission guidelines on request, or after you
send a written request with an SASE. As far as I know, you usually don't need
an agent to submit articles to magazines; that's more of a freelance situation.

If you don't want to buy any mags and can't get contact info any other way,
again, go to your local library. Ask them where the Standard Rate & Data
Services reference books are. (aka SRDS.) These are huge books covering pretty
much every publication, in the US anyway. (Presumably other countries have
similar reference books hidden in their libraries, too, but heaven only knows
what they call them. g) These books are mostly used for checking out
advertising rates - ok, that's how *I* know about them g - but they also give
such pertinent info as address, major staff names & departments, phone numbers,
subject of publication, frequency of publication, circulation,
distribution--everything you'll need to decide which one you'd want to contact,
and how to get in touch with 'em. The SRDS are updated a couple times a year,
if I remember right, and any central library in larger cities should have them
in their reference section. You won't be allowed to check them out, though, so
it'd be kind of difficult if you can't get to a major library. Inter-library
loan won't work with these books. In that case, best best would be to find out
which libraries have any crafts magazines that cover crocheting, and look in
them for contact info. Or covertly copy down the info while looking at mags in
a store--although that may get you into trouble. g

Or sell - somewhere - a pattern using the technique, and make sure the blurb
notes that there's a new technique given in the pattern. Creating leaflet-type
printed patterns is pretty simple, as long as you have a word processing or DTP
program and know how to use it. Write up the technique and pattern, making sure
to find someone to help you proof it. (you *always* miss stuff yourself, even
with spell-check and reading it backwards for typos; trust me on this. I used
to be a WP/DTP specialist. I *know*. bg) Include some good pix and diagrams.
Print at home if you have a printer, or take the doc on floppy to a place like
Kinko's and print up umpteen copies. *Then* is when you run into the harder
part - selling 'em. You have to find a distributor, or independent shops, or a
chain of stores, interested in buying your pattern. Or you could sell it from a
website, in which case see below for ideas on spreading the word. Caveat:
Selling patterns means you're starting a business, and this means licensing,
taxes, blah blah blah. Yechh. Plus, if you manage to find buyers all over the
country, production costs will probably go up, even if you go to a regular
printer. (places like Kinko's are kind of expensive for big projects. ok for
small amounts, since many bigger print businesses won't even *do* small runs;
i.e, less than a couple thousand. although if you have pix - and you will,
because people want pix in patterns or technique descriptions - those will be
more expensive anyway, even at someplace like Kinko's. but if you start getting
up into big numbers, you'll probably want to to find a bigger printing biz to
get a better price break. note: B&W is *always* cheaper than color printing, no
matter where you go. 2-color is a little more expensive. 4-color - as in
realistic photos - is the most expensive, since in anything but
laser/photocopy/inkjet methods, they use the 4-color separation process. which
means a page with photo/color illustration is run through a press 4x. it's not
the 4 colors of ink that's so expensive, it's the number of times a page has to
run through the big, honkin' expensive press.)

Other than that, pretty much the only other thing I can think of is teaching it
in classes at a yarn/craft store, or writing a book/pamphlet that someone will
want to publish. Both involve a lot of work. Classes, you have to sell the idea
to a store, figure out a lesson plan, write up - and print - hand-outs, make up
samples, and have the time for teaching. Plus be *able* to teach; both the
time, and the ability. If a book or pamphlet, it'll still be lots of work even
if you bypass the selling the idea to a publisher bit - and getting an agent -
and instead, go straight to a vanity press, and pay to publish it yourself.
Writing ain't all that easy. Besides, using a vanity press, then *you* have to
advertise, promote, and sell the book/pamphlet, just as you would with only a
pattern. And no one may be interested after all that trouble. Researching
interest in a publication is just one of the things publishers do for you.
Plus, both these options *also* mean business-type legal stuff you have to do.

Alternatively, you could make a web page about it, then join one of the
webrings for crochet sites--those increase webpage hits considerably. Also list
the page with every search engine you can, and find other pages that'll put up
links to yours. Then at least it'll spread through the computerized population
- although you won't make any money off it. But hey, you also won't be paying
any business fees.

As to copyright - Bart also asked about copyrighting a new technique a while
ago, and I came forth with the following long screed. g (people ask
questions, I tend to go off and research... yes, I waste a lot of time, but
I've got a lot to waste, I'm on disability and don't work. ::snicker:
Probably more than you want to know, but just in case you thought of trying to
copyright a technique...

"Disclaimer - not a lawyer, not a lawyer, not a lawyer. But I wondered too,
so did some really quick research to confirm my suspicions.

Can't copyright the technique--at least under US law. Go check out the US Gov't
circular on copyright he

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wnp

then choose the link for the question, 'What is *not* protected by copyright?'
(my asterisks for emphasis, there). Read paragraph 4 of that section. It says,
and I quote in part:

"Ideas, procedures, methods,... as distinguished from a description,
explanation..."

Their definition of what copyright protects boils down to *authorship* of
things, not invention of techniques. Which means copyright doesn't do diddly
for a new stitch or technique - only for anything you *write* about it. Or
film, record, paint, draw, sculpt... ) Presumably, however, anyone could
learn your method and cheerfully show others, as long as they weren't copying
your written-up instructions word for word and handing 'em out, publishing
them, etc. (again, remembering I'm not a lawyer. I could be wrong about that,
but if so, then any of us who've taught someone else to knit, crochet, etc.,
from memory even, is in deep trouble. g heck, we're in trouble for teaching
someone to *cook*, especially specific published recipes, if definitions are
that strict. this I doubt.)

Also, *possibly*, if they wrote an explanation of how to do it in sufficiently
different words than you did, they could pass *their* description around and
still be ok. Maybe. That's where a lawyer comes in. It's likely, though; Ginger
Luters, Vivian Hoxbro, and Horst whosis all use mitered knitting techniques in
their patterns, which have become all the rage. While their individual patterns
are copyright, the techniques themselves aren't. People everywhere are legally
publishing their own copyright patterns based on the mitered knitting
techniques; ditto instructions for the techniques themselves. Note that the
original *descriptions* and original *designs* made from the technique are
copyright -- not the technique. If you could copyright a stitch, designers
would be pretty stuck. "Oh no...a yarn-over is a copyright stitch, I can't use
it in my design!" Uhhh...no. Not happening.

Nor are knitting/crocheting patented, for that matter - they're too old and too
widely used. And I'll betcha new methods are considered to simply be variations
of techniques already known, therefore not patentable. (just a personal
opinion, there, please note. yes, I'm disclaiming like mad - it's called CYA,
which in these modern times is necessary. I repeat, I'm not a lawyer; get one
if you want real professional advice.)

However, you might check into patents. Although again, I dunno if something
like a new stitch or knitting/crochet technique is 'new and useful' enough to
qualify - because of the previous length of existence thing. That phrase 'new
and useful', btw, is one part of how the US Patent Office's site defines a
'utililty' patent. The other kind of patent your idea may come under would be a
'design' patent, although that seems to refer more to decorative ideas, rather
than technical. I'm also betting you'd have to search out all the other
connecting methods, and make sure your method hadn't been discovered and shown
by anyone else, ever. I wasn't *so* interested that I researched who has to
provide the burden of proof as to whether something's original enough to
qualify for a patent. g I have no idea if it's the Patent Office or the
originator that has to do the work.

Now, if you created an *entirely* new way to work a strand of yarn to create a
fabric, which in no way resembled knitting, crocheting, knotting, naalbinding,
tatting, etc., that'd be more likely to get a patent, from the sounds of it.
Better yet, invent a machine to do it with, and patent *that*. But I'm not a
patent lawyer, either, so take a look at the FAQs on the US Patent site and
see! Go to following page:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/faqs.htm

Choose the link for "Patents", which you'll find about halfway down, right
underneath the Native American Tribal Insignia Database link.

The Patents FAQ page has links at the top to the page segments containing short
descriptions of patents, trademarks, and *copyright*, helpfully enough. Also
check the links on that same page for "What Can Be Patented" and "Novelty and
Non-Obviousness, Conditions For Obtaining a Patent." (the non-obvious bit is
particularly interesting. the idea seems to be that if, in general, someone
else skilled in whatever you're doing could probably figure out the same thing
you did, then you don't get a patent.

Then, personally, I'd email and ask 'em about it. Things look veeewwwyyy fuzzy
in there. Frankly, if you wanna make any money off of it, or prevent others
from doing so/using it without paying you a fee, I'd get a lawyer."

Whew.
Monica
(yeesh - see what you tend to do after having worked in advertising/PR/WP/DTP
environments for umpteen years? LOL)
CMMPDX2 at aol
remove 'eat.spam' to email me
---------
"No, that isn't me you saw - I'm not here, I'm incognito!" (Me, Myself & I)
Support our Troops!!
http://www.wtv-zone.com/kjsb/bataan.html
  #4  
Old June 22nd 04, 10:51 AM
Katherine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

CMM PDX2 wrote:
snip

Excellent explanation, MOnica!

Katherine


  #8  
Old June 23rd 04, 04:01 AM
Els van Dam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(TheMage) wrote:

(CMM PDX2) wrote in message
...
Alternatively, you could make a web page about it, then join one of the
webrings for crochet sites--those increase webpage hits considerably.

Also list
the page with every search engine you can, and find other pages

that'll put up
links to yours. Then at least it'll spread through the computerized

population
- although you won't make any money off it. But hey, you also won't be

paying
any business fees.


I'm so glad you mentioned this to me. This was my original plan,
however, I don't understand trademarks, such as "Turned Toe(tm)" in
the "Socks soar on two circular needles" booklet. Or, the trademarks
surrounding something like CroTat(tm). I know that tm means the
trademark is not registered and r means that it is registerered.

But could someone see my technique online, publish their own set of
instructions for it, give it a cool name, and sell it under their own
trademark? That would, at best, make me feel used. At worst, they
might try to bring legal action against my site if I decide to
identify my technique description by the cool trademarked name. I
wouldn't want to create confusion by NOT identifying the existence of
the trademark on my site.

That's why I didn't go this way... so far. Any thoughts?

The Mage


Come to think of it, my daughter went through a similar thing. She
published a puppy kit, and the way she did it she thought it was unique.
However in the end she hired a special lawyer, to check it all out,
including the name they wanted to use for their new kit and company. It
is costly, but you do get protected that way. I would think that the
public library is a good start to find out all the details. I also wonder
if there are business schools close where your live, who's students are
willing to help you with the legal aspects. It may not nearly be so
costly that way.. I know that in Toronto, Reyerson's Institude has a
program where you can go for help.

Keep us posted and follow through.

Els

--
hate spam not welcome
  #9  
Old June 23rd 04, 07:07 AM
CMM PDX2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(note - thanks, Katherine! g flattery will get you everywhere...)

Ok, this is long again...you are forewarned. g Again, disclaimer for the more
arcane, involving-legalities stuff: Not a lawyer, not an expert, dunno all the
ramifications, this is only what I've learned through reading and my own *very*
limited experiences as mentioned below. *Way* below.

The Mage wrote:

How does a person verify that the technique is new? Lots
of people have suggested that, but no one seems to have
a plan for it.


Then Els wrote:

For that kind of thing I would contact the weaving musea in
the States as well as in Canada and ask for help there. I
am sure the will help you with historical info. There are
also very well know artists and Textile historians who have
written books. They may also be a good source for
that kind of info


What Els said. Any time you want to track down the sources of something like
this, you're talking what could be a huge amount of research. Doing the above
could be just the *start* of it. The question is how far do you want/need to
go? How much time do you want to spend - weeks, months, a couple years? Exactly
how much do you need to find out before you're satisfied that you have the
right answer? Or as close as you can get, anyway. Maybe no one knows the exact
answer; that's always a possibility, too, considering the fact that crochet's
been around for so long. In which case you just need to know if anyone is
*currently* using your technique and has already published instructions out
there somewhere; which may be easier. Or not.

It's like researching anything else; same as a reporter does for background on
an article; a student writing a college paper or an entire thesis; or anyone
writing a book. You search every source you can find, read massive amounts,
spend hours in libraries, contact experts, take huge amounts of notes, etc.,
etc. If you've never done this kind of research before, you simply have to
learn how. Find books that tell you how to research things. (library again. and
the librarians; they're used to helping students find out how to research. but
they won't do it *for* you, they'll just give you ideas of how to do it, and
how to learn to do it.) Or take a class in researching; check the web for that,
as well as your local colleges, etc. Try web sites that advise would-be
authors; plenty of those have segments on doing research. Google for 'how to
write', 'writing advice', 'doing research', and such. Or pay someone to
research the question - usually not an option, unless you've got money to burn.

Nowadays, at least, you can start out on the web, as well as in your library.
Then, as Els said, write museums, textile historians, authors of related
articles you've read in magazines... anyone who's an expert on whatever
technique you're researching. Not all will help you, but plenty will. (although
some may ask for a fee, in which case you have to decide how necessary their
input may be.) Answers from sources such as these will lead you to other
resources, which you'll have to research, and repeat ad infinitum until you're
satisfied. Mirjam here on rcty would be one of the first sources I'd suggest,
as she's definitely an artist, uses crochet a lot, and knows a heckuva lot
about textile history. Depending on how hard it is to find the info, and how
much is known about the history of crochet, you're going to have a lot of work
ahead of you if you want a really definitive answer. But that's up to you.

The Mage wrote:

(CMM PDX2) wrote:


Alternatively, you could make a web page about it, then join
one of the webrings for crochet sites--those increase
webpage hits considerably. Also list the page with every
search engine you can, and find other pages that'll put
up links to yours.


snip

I'm so glad you mentioned this to me. This was my original
plan, however, I don't understand trademarks, such as "Turned
Toe(tm)" in the "Socks soar on two circular needles" booklet.
Or, the trademarks surrounding something like CroTat(tm). I
know that tm means the trademark is not registered and r
means that it is registerered.


Actually, if I remember right, (tm) *does* mean that a trademark has been
established. I think (r)/registered is somewhat different - a little lesser
protection, or more, or in conjunction with a trademark - but I'm not sure;
I've forgotten. That's something you'll have to research, also. See further
below for *some* idea of what a trademark is, too.

However: I do know you *cannot* just slap (tm) or (r) on something, the way you
do with a copyright notice. That doesn't make it legal or protect your rights
to the trademark. Copyright is intrinsic protection with anything you write;
trademarks and registrations have legal formalities you must to go through
first, plus fees to be paid for getting exclusive rights to a trademark. I
think if you don't follow the process, anyone who wants to can steal a
trademark out from under you by paying the fees to trademark the name before
you do. (I *think*; again, not an expert.)

First, trademarks have to be researched, to make sure you're not infringing on
the rights of someone who's already registered the trademark you're thinking
of; or anything even close to it. A new trademark cannot be a duplicate of any
other trademark in existence; i.e., the name has to be different enough to be
distinctly noticeable, by whatever arcane rule of thumb the gov't has
established. This means fees. I can't remember if you do that part through a
lawyer, or some firm specializing in researching trademarks; I'm only going by
vague memories here. And those are from when the savings & loan company I
worked for was developing a trademark for the name we were going to call our
brand-new ATM machines in our ads. (this was during the time ATM machines were
just starting to come into use. quite a while ago!)

We had to pay some firm to research the names we were thinking of, and I
remember getting umpteen pages of lists of trademarks. We had to go through
pages and pages of already-established trademarks to see if ours was too
similar to anything that even vaguely resembled the names we had come up with.
I believe this process is a legal requirement. (unless you wanna take the risk
of being sued...)

Then, once you know your trademark is unique, there's *more*. You have to pay
again to have it recorded in some bureau or other. (whatever the gov't calls
the office/bureau that handles trademarks.) As I recall, the fee's pretty
hefty. The whole process took several months, if I remember right, and
definitely included lawyers.

This is something else you'll have to look up; I'd suggest Googling for a
government site on trademarks so you can read up on them, to understand what
they're about, what they cost, and what the process is of getting one. Any book
about selling your crafts should have a very basic section on this to help you
get started, and possibly will explain the bare bones a little more clearly
than the government info. g I'd suggest the library again, as well as gov't
websites on trademark requirements. Whatever, if you decide to trademark,
you're going to need professional legal advice. It's not something you can
really do by yourself, there are too many rules and regs, as I recall. Not to
mention filing legal papers probably *has* to be done by a lawyer or firm.

A trademark won't do anything to protect the technique; that's more the patent
end of things, if it's unique enough to be patentable. And that takes fees too.
I'm not talking about those stupid come-on's from companies that say they'll
get something patented for you; those are pretty much a con. Go straight to the
US Patent Office website instead, and read up on the process. If necessary,
just hire a patent lawyer or para-legal or whatever to do anything you find too
difficult to understand; no matter what they cost, they won't be cheating you.
Well, supposing they're not shysters. g But any fees for filing a patent
itself go to the Patent Office, not to some company that says they'll help you
get one. You go to one of them, you'll be paying them to do a bunch of stuff
you could do yourself, *plus* the Patent Office fee. The Patent Office
regularly warns people about such companies, basically saying they're a crock.

Now, going by rather vague memory here, trademarks have more to do with brand
names and brand recognition, rather than an intellectual right in a process or
technique. Like Coca-Cola/Coke. Lots of mfrs. make cola beverages; but there's
only one called Coke.

Take Disney, for example. Their cartoon characters such as Mickey Mouse, etc.,
are trademarked, and this means that *no* one can use the image, name, etc., of
Mickey Mouse without the following: Disney's permission (and they'll wanna know
how a person will use it); paying a fee for a license to use it; plus paying
Disney royalties on any of the profits made from the use/sale of anything
connected with the image. Which means anyone who designs and/or makes something
with Mickey's image or name on it and sells it, without licensing, etc., and
paying those fees - even selling at a flea market or garage sale - is breaking
the law. Even if the pattern of whatever they're putting Mickey on is their
design. Even if all they're doing is painting Mickey on a T-shirt. *Mickey*
isn't theirs to sell. Neither is the name 'Mickey Mouse', with his pic or not.

And yes, Disney does prosecute any infringement of their numerous trademarks!
Those books about selling your crafts tend to use infringing on Disney's rights
as *the* Horrible Example, because they *do* go after anyone they hear about
using any of their trademarked characters, names, etc. Even little old ladies
selling Mickey potholders at the aforementioned flea markets. (they'd go after
folks selling Disney stuff at church bazaars if they had enough people to track
'em down, from what's said. g)

Yes, companies sell patterns for sweaters with Mickey on them, and crafts
magazines have articles on how to make something with the image of Mickey...but
the publishers of those have paid the fees to be allowed to do so. They're not
selling the *results* of said pattern - that'd involve yet more fees. And it's
understood that your buying the pattern, etc., gives you the right to make that
item for personal use or as a gift. You paying for the pattern gives you *that*
right. It doesn't give you the right to then use the pattern to make things
that you're going to sell, with that trademarked image of Mickey Mouse on them.
Your purchase of it only entitled you to 'reasonable use' or some such term.
'Reasonable use' doesn't involve making money off it, without paying additional
fees yourself, to both Disney *and* whoever owns the pattern rights. This is
only one of the places where trademark and copyright overlap, and get really,
really confuzzling. Basically, though, such a pattern would combine both
rights, in my rather limited understanding of either. Disney for the trademark
rights, the publisher of the pattern for the copyright. So you'd have to pay
both of 'em more fees to use it to make items for sale.

On the other hand, the idea and technique of putting a picture - of Mickey or
anything else - painted, stamped, drawn, embroidered, by whatever method, on a
T-shirt, is *not* the right of only one corporation in the entire world. Anyone
can come up with their own art, decorate a T-shirt with it, and sell the
result...so long as the art is original, or licensed from the legal owner. The
way it's put on the shirt is a technique, and the technique is freely available
for anyone to use. Unless it's patentable, and has been patented. See the
diff??

The examples you mentioned, of "Turned Toe (tm)" and "CroTat (tm)", are simply
those companies' particular *names* for a technique. The people who paid for
the trademark rights to those names own those names; not the technique. Others
can use the techniques, and write about it, but they can't *call* the
techniques by those particular names, because the names are trademarked.

On the other hand, the name 'Kitchener', used for a particular style of
grafting two knit pieces together, isn't trademarked - and it's gotten attached
to the technique more by popular usage than by deliberate intent. So people
don't have to pay any legal fees every time they mention 'Kitchener stitch' in
some publication.

A good example is the Xerox people having hissy fits every time someone says -
in print - that they Xeroxed 100 copies, instead of using the word
'photocopied.' Xerox *hates* that. g The name Xerox is trademarked; photocopy
isn't. Xerox wants people to only use 'Xeroxed' if the copies were actually
made on a Xerox machine. Anything else, they want you to use 'photocopies.' I
can't remember where, but do remember reading a very long, stuffy blurb about
that by Xerox. And the Kleenex people don't want you to call all facial
tissues 'Kleenex.' Not that they can manage to prosecute everyone who uses
their trademark names generically, but they'd sure love to. Brand-name
recognition equals money...

But could someone see my technique online, publish their own
set of instructions for it, give it a cool name, and sell it under
their own trademark? That would, at best, make me feel used.
At worst, they might try to bring legal action against my site if I
decide to identify my technique description by the cool
trademarked name. I wouldn't want to create confusion by
NOT identifying the existence of the trademark on my site.


As far as I know, as per all my above, the answer is - yep. But to get the real
skinny and do it right, get a lawyer if you want to call your technique a
specific name and keep the rights to the name. Save up to pay for the advice
and registering all the rights. Even so, people could still publish their own
instructions; they just couldn't call it by the same name you do. Unless you
patented the technique, if it's possible to do so. As far as I know. I'm not
a trademark lawyer, so go to a real one. Or a patent lawyer, if you want to
find out definitively about protecting your rights to the actual technique. Or
both.

This is where getting a book published would be easier. Copyright would, I
think, cover the cool technique name you used in the book, and your publisher
would handle all the legal details. But I have no idea if they'd actually
trademark the cool name or not, or if it'd be necessary. The cool name would
probably be used in the title of the book, and then the usage rights would
probably be covered by copyright...but I'm not sure. That's for a lawyer to
tell you.

And that's all I know. g Finito. From here on out, it's your puppy. Good
luck!

Monica
CMMPDX2 at aol
remove 'eat.spam' to email me
---------
"No, that isn't me you saw - I'm not here, I'm incognito!" (Me, Myself & I)
Support our Troops!!
http://www.wtv-zone.com/kjsb/bataan.html
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS/giveaway: Crochet (mostly) books & patterns Joan Erickson Marketplace 2 October 9th 04 09:56 PM
FS: Misc. patterns/books/leaflets Joan Erickson Marketplace 0 August 14th 04 01:33 AM
FS: Old Time Crochet, Herrschner's Crochet Patterns, McCall's Crochet Patterns/Magazine marilyn safier Marketplace 0 March 16th 04 07:46 AM
Discounted Magazine Subscriptions Shannon Still Marketplace 0 February 27th 04 02:56 AM
Discounted Magazine Subscriptions Shannon Still Marketplace 0 February 27th 04 02:56 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.