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#11
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Ring resizing?
On Feb 13, 1:17*am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:06:52 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jeweller wrote: If you do decide to resize by cutting and putting a piece in, one finger size is equal to 1.1mm In Australian ring sizes (assumed by your addy), that's correct (I assume. *but didn't look it up...) * But in U.S. sizes, one full size is 2.5 millimeters. If one is being very precise, I think it's actually 2.54 mm... *And then, since you cut the shank open to insert the piece, you can add another .25 mm to make up for the width of the saw cut. * Again, for real precision, remember that this length of stock is most accurately measured on the inside of the ring, at the finger or mandrel surface. *But actually measuring it on the inside is a pain in the backside. *Most people mark the ring, and the stock, on the outside surface. For fractions of a size, or a size or even two, the result is the stock is very slightly shorter, so the ring ends up a little bit tighter than the desired size. *That's perfect, since it allows you to clean up the solder and the addition, and mallet the ring properly round again, and the slight stretching that causes then gives you the desired end size. *But if you're making a ring more than maybe a size and a half, or two sizes, larger, you start to need to measure longer than that theoretical 2.5 mm per size, or the ring will end up significantly too small. *Practice will teach you how much to adjust. * The other way to do this which avoids the math is simply to cut the shank, slide it up a ring mandrel to the desired size, making sure the shank stays flush to the madrel while doing this. *Then use a divider to measure the resulting gap and mark your sizing stock to cut the needed insert piece. Peter From looking at the picture you've posted, the bezel surounding the agate is not holding the stone in place. I can see gaps on the outer edges which means you could probably soak the ring in a product called " Atack " and that will release the stone without hurting the agate at all. Agates are around 71/2 on the hardness scale so you wont hurt the the polish in any way. This would be the easiest way to approach this job as anyone not familiar with soldering the ring in wet sand or water most often overheats the shank and makes more problems then they'd like. Mark |
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#12
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Ring resizing?
stacy c wrote:
I have a ring that I made in a size 7.25 for sale; a buyer who is a size 9 wants it. The most I have ever stretched a ring is up to 1 full size, with a roller stretcher. The stone, which is already set, is very unique, so this would be my preferred option, but I am afraid that stretching it almost 2 sizes might be too much for the sterling silver. Does anyone have any advice on stretching? Am I going to have to pop the stone out and sleeve some more silver into the band? thanks, -stacy Either way, rolling or putting in a piece has its drawbacks. Rolling, which ive done a lots, distorts the band, as well as thinning it. Risky to true up on your trivet with the stone set . Putting in a piece into the band is not as good as making a fresh band for the setting . Eitherway you would be advised to pop? if its that easy? the stone out and then do the alterations. Did you leave a hole under the stone to assist its removal? by some future jeweller? If it was me, id replace the band and keep the setting. One trick ive used when putting in a piece into the band is to enclose the setting in a mass of ball clay nice and soft. weve tons of it here as our subsoil.( the Romans mined it 2000 yrs ago ) then id put this mass immersed in water with the band sticking out about 3/4in. Works fine. Ted Frater Dorset ~UK. |
#13
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Ring resizing?
On Feb 13, 9:19 am, Graver wrote:
From looking at the picture you've posted, the bezel surounding the agate is not holding the stone in place. I can see gaps on the outer edges which means you could probably soak the ring in a product called " Atack " and that will release the stone without hurting the agate at all. Agates are around 71/2 on the hardness scale so you wont hurt the the polish in any way. This would be the easiest way to approach this job as anyone not familiar with soldering the ring in wet sand or water most often overheats the shank and makes more problems then they'd like. Mark Well, the stone is a strange shape (not a flush square; the table is quite a bit smaller than the bottom), so the bezel is actually holding the stone in there. I always try to get the stone out after I set it on purpose to make sure. But I am a new jeweler and always open to suggestions. I appreciate everyone's help! thanks again, -stacy |
#14
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Ring resizing?
In this here newsgroup called rec.crafts.jewelry on Wed, 11 Feb 2009
23:53:29 -0800 we all dun see'd a message a-written by Peter W. Rowe which dun sed: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:40:33 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jeweller wrote: Also, what type of setting is the stone in? Can you describe the ring or post a pic? And what is the stone? Please be advised that posting of pictures, images, HTML coded messages, or other non simple text messages is not allowed by the group charger. My moderating software isn't set up to correctly pass an attachment on from an incoming message out to the newsgroup when I get an attachment to a message sent to the group, so even if I wanted to make an exception and allow an image, the software won't do it. So if you wish to reference a picture for a posting, the way to do it is to post the picture to the web. There are a number of free servers out there that will host pictures for you for free. Then you simply include the URL to the image in your newsgroup posting. That works fine. \ thanks. Peter Rowe moderator rec.crafts.jewelry Peter, Just for you & this ng, I'll set up an FTP or webpage to post pictures for noobs and others, free of charge. They merely have to email me their picture and any text they want with it and I'll put it up. It'll have to be on my halebobb.com domain though since I don't want people to be able to find me in reality via the interweb. Doc |
#15
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Ring resizing?
In this here newsgroup called rec.crafts.jewelry on Wed, 11 Feb 2009
23:49:58 -0800 we all dun see'd a message a-written by Peter W. Rowe which dun sed: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:42:02 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Gantzi wrote: In addition, you might want to cover the stone and some of the ring with cooling paste so it won't be damaged when soldering the additional piece of silver. As a general rule, in my experience I've found those paste products to be only marginally useful with silver (or with gold too, often enough). While they have uses in cases where you need to protect some smaller detail, they suffer from the problem that as a paste or gel, they aren't able to flow towards the metal. What happens is that the metal gets hot, the gel absorbs the heat for a while till it dries out at the surface of the metal. When that happens (and it doesn't take long), then a slight air gap develops between the remaining gel and the metal, so although the metal under the gel is not subject to the direct flame, it's also not heat sinked by the gel. Silver is the finest thermal conductor of all the metals, and transmits heat very quickly. If you need to heat sink a heat sensative stone while sizing anything but the thinnest of shanks, you need a more effective heat sink. Plain water does the trick nicely. Immerse the top half of the ring (the stone set part) under water in a container (I use an old tuna fish can). Now, as the silver transmits heat to the water, the water can continue to wet the surface. It will sizzle, the water may even boil, but the stone will get no hotter than boiling water. If the sizzling and spitting of the water boiling where it contact the silver is a problem, or if you have trouble holding the ring in position, you can also use coarse sand, or carborundum soldering grain, in that container and then saturated with water. The grain or sand hold the ring in position. But with less water, there's a little less heat sinking capacity. Still, this is often a useful method. The other big advantage to the use of plain water or wet sand is that not only does it work better than those paste products, but it's a lot less expensive, and not so messy to use. Peter I agree, yet... I use powdered asbestos mixed with water. It doesn't pull away from the silver, in fact it almost bonds with it, and doesn't pull away so much. And before everyone jumps all over my sh!t, no, I don't put the asbestos into a paper sack and huff it. |
#16
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Ring resizing?
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:38:20 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Bro
wrote: Peter, Just for you & this ng, I'll set up an FTP or webpage to post pictures for noobs and others, free of charge. They merely have to email me their picture and any text they want with it and I'll put it up. It'll have to be on my halebobb.com domain though since I don't want people to be able to find me in reality via the interweb. Doc Generous of ya. Though I doubt you'll see a flood of people taking you up on the offer. Still, another good option for anyone who finds your offer, decodes your email address, but doesn't find any of the other existing free sites out there that host pictures for people. Thanks. Peter |
#17
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Ring resizing?
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:38:32 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Bro
wrote: I agree, yet... I use powdered asbestos mixed with water. It doesn't pull away from the silver, in fact it almost bonds with it, and doesn't pull away so much. And before everyone jumps all over my sh!t, no, I don't put the asbestos into a paper sack and huff it. I used to use a mashed up mess of furnace tape, back when it was asbestos based, too. Kind of like a sloppy web paper mache mix. Like your mix, it keeps the silver cool because the water content remains in contact. Easier to place, but still not quite as good a heat sink as just plain water, simply based on the total amount of water available to absorb the heat. Does have the advantage of less spitting and sizzling than just a can of water. My comments on stuff that doesn't work so well is quite specifically aimed at those paste like concoctions, some in a jar, some actually in an aerosol can like cheeze wiz. Easy to apply, easy to drop money on since they get listings in tool catalogs, but not, overall, very useful. In addition to your asbestos powder or my old furnace tape mash, people also have used cotton balls, a bunch of sopping tissue paper, wet sand, or a commercial cotton like but fireproof fiber mat. All of these can be used to hold a bunch of water in contact with the metal to keep it cool where needed. All will work so long as the water remains there and in contact with the metal. Peter |
#18
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Ring resizing?
On Feb 10, 11:09=A0am, stacy c wrote:
I have a ring that I made in a size 7.25 for sale; =A0a buyer who is a size 9 wants it. The most I have ever stretched a ring is up to 1 full size, with a roller stretcher. =A0The stone, which is already set, is very unique, so this would be my preferred option, but I am afraid that stretching it almost 2 sizes might be too much for the sterling silver. Does anyone have any advice on stretching? Am I going to have to pop the stone out and sleeve some more silver into the band? thanks, -stacy In general , I like Rio's Third hand. Used it for years. It is a fibrous "clay" (no asbestos) that you sink the ring in. It is reusable, just keep it wet. As has been mentioned, silver conduct heat like no other metal. When you reshanking or sizing, I have found it's hard to get closer than a 1/4 shank away from a stone you're protecting with heat sink. The best service to your customer is to remake ring in proper size. I have stretched rings to two sizes(yes gold) but, you must anneal every half size or so. Difficult when protecting stone from heat.Hope that helps. |
#19
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Ring resizing?
In this here newsgroup called rec.crafts.jewelry on Sun, 22 Feb 2009
11:46:09 -0800 we all dun see'd a message a-written by Peter W. Rowe which dun sed: On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:38:32 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Bro wrote: I agree, yet... I use powdered asbestos mixed with water. It doesn't pull away from the silver, in fact it almost bonds with it, and doesn't pull away so much. And before everyone jumps all over my sh!t, no, I don't put the asbestos into a paper sack and huff it. I used to use a mashed up mess of furnace tape, back when it was asbesto= s based, too. Kind of like a sloppy web paper mache mix. Like your mix, it kee= ps the silver cool because the water content remains in contact. Easier to pla= ce, but still not quite as good a heat sink as just plain water, simply based on= the total amount of water available to absorb the heat.=20 Yes of course. I mean I'm sure some smart person like you or Abracdabra could even explain the physics that back up your assertions.=20 Does have the advantage of less spitting and sizzling than just a can of water.=20 Yeah, it's the spitting, steam and sizzling that frosts my ass (no pun). My comments on stuff that doesn't work so well is quite specifically aimed at those paste like concoctions, some in a jar, some actually in an aerosol can like cheeze = wiz. Oh God! I HATE that cheese-wiz heat sink! When it gets low it starts blowing bits of the wiz all over the desk. And I'd just bet real Cheeze-Wiz=AE would do a better job of protecting ones stones (and would have the added bonus of a quick stack between solders.) |
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