Is this really gold?

I was given a gold chain as a birthday gift. It was nice looking and
glittery in the beginning (circa march 15). After I wore it
continuously, for 2 months, it has substantially changed. Around the
edges where it rubbed clothes, it looks more coppery, and it generally
"faded". It is no longer glittery. Looks like maybe faded brass,
something like that.

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".

I am starting to doubt that it is actually gold. I have a decent
scanner and can scan the picture of this chain.

Is there a test of gold that can be done at home? Is there a gold
stamp that is legally required to be only on gold products?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ @ @ Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured. @ @ @
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

Ignoramus27199,
I don't know if this will help, but it might be interesting. I have an
old family ring which possibly dates to the 1880s or so. It is usually
nice and shiny, as gold should be, but occasionally it tarnishes
badly--probably my sweat and body acids. A jeweller did a repair on
it, and while he had it, also did a test on the Karat value of the
gold. He said it was about 7K, and also he said it had a lot of copper
in it, being a practice of yore in making cheaper rings. That would
fit my knowledge of family history, as in the early days in Australia,
both east and west coasts, the family had little money. So the only
thing that I can add in answer to your question is that your chain may
not be the 14K it says it is, and that it may just be a cheap gold
plate.

Do you know a friendly jeweller, who might have a look at it for you?
It might be worth checking out, if you don't get any joy in the
newsgroups.

By the way. I didn't notice any typos in your post!

Kindest regards,

Andreas Krokene


Ignoramus27199 wrote in message
. ..
I was given a gold chain as a birthday gift. It was nice looking and
glittery in the beginning (circa march 15). After I wore it
continuously, for 2 months, it has substantially changed. Around the
edges where it rubbed clothes, it looks more coppery, and it generally
"faded". It is no longer glittery. Looks like maybe faded brass,
something like that.

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".

I am starting to doubt that it is actually gold. I have a decent
scanner and can scan the picture of this chain.

Is there a test of gold that can be done at home? Is there a gold
stamp that is legally required to be only on gold products?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ @ @ Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured. @ @ @
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

On Tue, 11 May 2004 18:07:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ignoramus27199
wrote:

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".


Is there a test of gold that can be done at home? Is there a gold
stamp that is legally required to be only on gold products?

Testing for gold content could be done at home, of course, but you'd need to
buy the needed testing materials, which amounts to a small black piece of
ceramic or stone, and a small bottle of acid. You can get these things easily
enough on ebay. But it may take a little bit of experience to get reliable
results, and the test can leave a mark on the gold. Also, the main thing one
is trying to detect is whether the chain is just plated over base metal, and
for that, all you need is a bit of dilute nitric acid. Put a drop of acid on a
spot on the chain where you've filed a small notch, in order to get through any
surface gold plating. If the metal inside that notch bubbles up with a green
color, the chain is base metal, not solid gold.

As to stamps, your chain already has the required marking. The trouble is that
in the U.S., the karat mark is applied by the maker or seller, not by an
independent agency that certifies the gold content. So it's easy to fake, and
enforcing the laws doesn't happen all that often. In theory, if an item is
marked karat gold, it must meet legal standards for that karat content, and
must also be marked with the trademark of the manufacturer.

One quick check that will be easy is to carefully examine, perhaps with a
magnifier, the individual links in the chain, to see if the loops that make it
up are soldered or welded closed, or whether they are still open links that are
just crimped shut. Almost all well made gold chains use links that are
actually soldered shut. Many of the cheaper fakes or plated chains use links
that are not soldered shut. This isn't foolproof, since good quality plated
chain may also use soldered shut links, but it's one clue that's easy to check.
Look especially, at the connections where that stamped tag attaches to the
chain.

You don't mention the style of the chain. some styles, such as larger diamter
rope chains, are often made not of solid wire, but of links made from small
diameter tubing, to cut down on the weight. When that's the case, sometimes
the tubing can trap a considerable amount of dirt and crud, giving the chain a
dingy look more than chain's made with solid wire might do. Even with solid
wire chain, it may well be that all your chain needs is a good cleaning. Try
mixing some good liquid cleaner, perhaps something with a bit of ammonia,
similar to what one might use to clean the kitchen floor, etc, with some very
hot water. Soak the chain in there for fiften minutes or so, and then rinse
and dry and wipe down with a soft cloth. See if this makes a difference. Or
see your local jeweler and just ask him/her to check whether your chain is good
quality or not. Most of the time, one can see it with just a magnifier,
without needing to test.

Hope that helps.

Peter

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Here's a very high quality picture
(scan) of the chain, so that you can decide if it looks like gold or
not:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/gold-chain.jpg

The 14K Italy mark is circled.

i

In article , Andreas Krokene wrote:
Ignoramus27199,
I don't know if this will help, but it might be interesting. I have an
old family ring which possibly dates to the 1880s or so. It is usually
nice and shiny, as gold should be, but occasionally it tarnishes
badly--probably my sweat and body acids. A jeweller did a repair on
it, and while he had it, also did a test on the Karat value of the
gold. He said it was about 7K, and also he said it had a lot of copper
in it, being a practice of yore in making cheaper rings. That would
fit my knowledge of family history, as in the early days in Australia,
both east and west coasts, the family had little money. So the only
thing that I can add in answer to your question is that your chain may
not be the 14K it says it is, and that it may just be a cheap gold
plate.

Do you know a friendly jeweller, who might have a look at it for you?
It might be worth checking out, if you don't get any joy in the
newsgroups.

By the way. I didn't notice any typos in your post!

Kindest regards,

Andreas Krokene


Ignoramus27199 wrote in message
. ..
I was given a gold chain as a birthday gift. It was nice looking and
glittery in the beginning (circa march 15). After I wore it
continuously, for 2 months, it has substantially changed. Around the
edges where it rubbed clothes, it looks more coppery, and it generally
"faded". It is no longer glittery. Looks like maybe faded brass,
something like that.

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".

I am starting to doubt that it is actually gold. I have a decent
scanner and can scan the picture of this chain.

Is there a test of gold that can be done at home? Is there a gold
stamp that is legally required to be only on gold products?

@ @ @ Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured. @ @ @
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

In article , Peter W Rowe wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2004 18:07:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ignoramus27199
wrote:

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".


Is there a test of gold that can be done at home? Is there a gold
stamp that is legally required to be only on gold products?

A high quality, enlarged scan of the chain at 600 dpi is availabe at


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/gold-chain.jpg

Testing for gold content could be done at home, of course, but you'd need to
buy the needed testing materials, which amounts to a small black piece of
ceramic or stone, and a small bottle of acid. You can get these things easily
enough on ebay. But it may take a little bit of experience to get reliable
results, and the test can leave a mark on the gold. Also, the main thing one
is trying to detect is whether the chain is just plated over base metal, and
for that, all you need is a bit of dilute nitric acid. Put a drop of acid on a
spot on the chain where you've filed a small notch, in order to get through any
surface gold plating. If the metal inside that notch bubbles up with a green
color, the chain is base metal, not solid gold.

thanks. Getting nitric acid could be tricky.

As to stamps, your chain already has the required marking. The trouble is that
in the U.S., the karat mark is applied by the maker or seller, not by an
independent agency that certifies the gold content. So it's easy to fake, and
enforcing the laws doesn't happen all that often. In theory, if an item is
marked karat gold, it must meet legal standards for that karat content, and
must also be marked with the trademark of the manufacturer.

Did not see that mark anywhere.

One quick check that will be easy is to carefully examine, perhaps with a
magnifier, the individual links in the chain, to see if the loops that make it
up are soldered or welded closed, or whether they are still open links that are
just crimped shut. Almost all well made gold chains use links that are
actually soldered shut. Many of the cheaper fakes or plated chains use links
that are not soldered shut. This isn't foolproof, since good quality plated
chain may also use soldered shut links, but it's one clue that's easy to check.
Look especially, at the connections where that stamped tag attaches to the
chain.

The links seem to be seamless.

You don't mention the style of the chain. some styles, such as larger diamter
rope chains, are often made not of solid wire, but of links made from small
diameter tubing, to cut down on the weight. When that's the case, sometimes
the tubing can trap a considerable amount of dirt and crud, giving the chain a
dingy look more than chain's made with solid wire might do.

Does not seem to be the case for me, although you can look at the
picture to form a better judgment.

Even with solid
wire chain, it may well be that all your chain needs is a good cleaning. Try
mixing some good liquid cleaner, perhaps something with a bit of ammonia,
similar to what one might use to clean the kitchen floor, etc, with some very
hot water.

I just tried cleaning it with fantastik (a kitchen cleaner) as well as
with liquid soap. Did not help.

It does not look like it is covered with crud, it looks like plating
came off some copper alloy.

Soak the chain in there for fiften minutes or so, and then rinse
and dry and wipe down with a soft cloth. See if this makes a difference. Or
see your local jeweler and just ask him/her to check whether your chain is good
quality or not. Most of the time, one can see it with just a magnifier,
without needing to test.

Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

generally
"faded". It is no longer glittery. Looks like maybe faded brass,
something like that.

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".

I am starting to doubt that it is actually gold.

If this is a wide herringbone necklace, it sounds like a copy of the
hundreds of fakes I used to get in. They were all stamped the same way you
describe and looked real good when new. The links even appeared to be soldered.
The only way to tell for sure was a drop of acid on the chain (from the test
kit). If it bubbled green it was fake.

On , in rec.crafts.jewelry Ignoramus20355
wrote:


A high quality, enlarged scan of the chain at 600 dpi is availabe at


To be really sure, I'd want to see an image of one or two links, at about ten
power magnification, where it looks like plating is coming off. And I'd want
to see a closer view of the stamped tag. Scanners can alter appearances and
color balances, so an image like you sent is a little tricky to use. But all
things considered, my first impression is that you are correct, and that this
is a cheap fake. The usual stampings of this type are smaller, not this very
large and obvious karat stamp. Real stuff doesn't need to slam you in the face
with the stamp, and it aught to have a trademark on it somewhere, though some
imported chain doesn't always have such a mark that's obvious. But from what i
can see, that coppery surface looks decidedly pitte and etched. If this is
correct, that this is not just a discoloration, but also a textured/etched
appearance, then it's pretty certain that you've got a fake. Not just gold
filled or costume, but a chain intended to defraud, and which might well have
been sold to the hapless buyer for a price that would have been represented as
being a great bargain for solid gold.

Again, there's only so much you can tell with a scan like this, so if knowing
conclusively is important, take it to any jeweler. This is not likely to cost
you anything but time, and anyone who looks at this, if they've any experience
at all, should be able to tell you in an instant.

But as I said, my first impression from your scan kinda yells "fraudulent fake"
at me. (by the way, in general, the "real" fakes are gold filled, not a thin
gold wash pating over brass or bronze, etc as this seems to be. Gold filled
chains have a thickness of gold that's sufficient for them to last often quite
some time, on the order usually of a couple years, not the couple months you've
experienced.

hope that helps.

Peter

Ignoramus20355 wrote:

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Here's a very high quality picture
(scan) of the chain, so that you can decide if it looks like gold or
not:


I does seem to look like it's a fake. If you can get it, put a little drop of
concentrated hydrochloric acid on it. Apply it with a glass rod. If it starts
to bubble and the metal turns green, it is not gold but fake. If nothing
happens, it is a precious metal.

Make sure to rinse well.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

In article , Peter W Rowe wrote:
On , in rec.crafts.jewelry Ignoramus20355
wrote:


A high quality, enlarged scan of the chain at 600 dpi is availabe at


To be really sure, I'd want to see an image of one or two links, at about ten
power magnification, where it looks like plating is coming off.

I created a directory from such pictures, as you requested, including
a picture of the stamp:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/gold-chain/


And I'd want to see a closer view of the stamped tag. Scanners can
alter appearances and color balances, so an image like you sent is a
little tricky to use. But all things considered, my first
impression is that you are correct, and that this is a cheap fake.
The usual stampings of this type are smaller, not this very large
and obvious karat stamp. Real stuff doesn't need to slam you in the
face with the stamp, and it aught to have a trademark on it
somewhere, though some imported chain doesn't always have such a
mark that's obvious. But from what i can see, that coppery surface
looks decidedly pitte and etched. If this is correct, that this is
not just a discoloration, but also a textured/etched appearance,
then it's pretty certain that you've got a fake. Not just gold
filled or costume, but a chain intended to defraud, and which might
well have been sold to the hapless buyer for a price that would have
been represented as being a great bargain for solid gold.

Yep, I tend to think that this explanation is consistent with all the
facts.

I will visit sam's club tonight, and I will ask their jeweler, just to
be sure.

Then there is a problem as to what to do about this issue. This chain
was given to me by my inlaws, who are immigrants and I am sure did not
intend to buy a cheap fake chain. So, naturally, they would be upset
by this discovery, and I do not intend to "rub it in" in any way, but
I am not interested in wearing a copper chain either.

Again, there's only so much you can tell with a scan like this, so if knowing
conclusively is important, take it to any jeweler. This is not likely to cost
you anything but time, and anyone who looks at this, if they've any experience
at all, should be able to tell you in an instant.

I agree.

But as I said, my first impression from your scan kinda yells
"fraudulent fake" at me. (by the way, in general, the "real" fakes
are gold filled, not a thin gold wash pating over brass or bronze,
etc as this seems to be. Gold filled chains have a thickness of
gold that's sufficient for them to last often quite some time, on
the order usually of a couple years, not the couple months you've
experienced.

Oh, I see. Okay, if I shop savvily, how much would it cost to buy a
real gold chain that weighs, say, 1 ounce? (an arbitrary weight)

Thank you!
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

It looks to me as though it's a chain made from something other than gold, and
it has been gold
plated. the 14k stamp may well refer to the plating, rather than the chain as a
whole.

--
Dale Porter
*Add .au to e-mail address to respond*

"Ignoramus20355" wrote in message
...
In article , Peter W Rowe wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2004 18:07:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ignoramus27199
wrote:

It does have a stamp on it saying "14K Italy".


Is there a test of gold that can be done at home? Is there a gold
stamp that is legally required to be only on gold products?

A high quality, enlarged scan of the chain at 600 dpi is availabe at


http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/gold-chain.jpg

Testing for gold content could be done at home, of course, but you'd need to
buy the needed testing materials, which amounts to a small black piece of
ceramic or stone, and a small bottle of acid. You can get these things easily
enough on ebay. But it may take a little bit of experience to get reliable
results, and the test can leave a mark on the gold. Also, the main thing one
is trying to detect is whether the chain is just plated over base metal, and
for that, all you need is a bit of dilute nitric acid. Put a drop of acid on a
spot on the chain where you've filed a small notch, in order to get through any
surface gold plating. If the metal inside that notch bubbles up with a green
color, the chain is base metal, not solid gold.

thanks. Getting nitric acid could be tricky.

As to stamps, your chain already has the required marking. The trouble is that
in the U.S., the karat mark is applied by the maker or seller, not by an
independent agency that certifies the gold content. So it's easy to fake, and
enforcing the laws doesn't happen all that often. In theory, if an item is
marked karat gold, it must meet legal standards for that karat content, and
must also be marked with the trademark of the manufacturer.

Did not see that mark anywhere.

One quick check that will be easy is to carefully examine, perhaps with a
magnifier, the individual links in the chain, to see if the loops that make it
up are soldered or welded closed, or whether they are still open links that are
just crimped shut. Almost all well made gold chains use links that are
actually soldered shut. Many of the cheaper fakes or plated chains use links
that are not soldered shut. This isn't foolproof, since good quality plated
chain may also use soldered shut links, but it's one clue that's easy to check.
Look especially, at the connections where that stamped tag attaches to the
chain.

The links seem to be seamless.

You don't mention the style of the chain. some styles, such as larger diamter
rope chains, are often made not of solid wire, but of links made from small
diameter tubing, to cut down on the weight. When that's the case, sometimes
the tubing can trap a considerable amount of dirt and crud, giving the chain a
dingy look more than chain's made with solid wire might do.

Does not seem to be the case for me, although you can look at the
picture to form a better judgment.

Even with solid
wire chain, it may well be that all your chain needs is a good cleaning. Try
mixing some good liquid cleaner, perhaps something with a bit of ammonia,
similar to what one might use to clean the kitchen floor, etc, with some very
hot water.

I just tried cleaning it with fantastik (a kitchen cleaner) as well as
with liquid soap. Did not help.

It does not look like it is covered with crud, it looks like plating
came off some copper alloy.

Soak the chain in there for fiften minutes or so, and then rinse
and dry and wipe down with a soft cloth. See if this makes a difference. Or
see your local jeweler and just ask him/her to check whether your chain is good
quality or not. Most of the time, one can see it with just a magnifier,
without needing to test.

Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."