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#1
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Safety issues using bulk propylene
I'm a beginner in hot glass after playing around with stained glass -
and yes - I've googled my butt off already! Hoping some of you can share your knowledge on this. Switching from MAPP canisters to bulk propylene has been rather discouraging so far after reading the safety posts at isgb forums. Since the bulk tanks are at high pressures with no regulators (unlike propane tanks) and since the torch is mounted to a hose rather than a tank - The issue seems to be - is the hose reliable at those pressures since they are basically just Coleman type propane hoses? Ever had a hose rupture or hear of one doing so? Flashback to the tank seems highly unlikely given the design of the HH and pressure of the tank? Am I missing another issue with the bulk tanks? The tank would remain outside, just like any other fuel tank. One more thing, does $22 for refilling a 6 lb. tank sound like a bad deal? I have only found one place willing to sell me bulk propylene and it's about 30 miles away. MAPP is 8 bucks a shot for 1 lb. cans. So I would save about 50% by switching. (But gasoline for a 60 mile trip!) Clearly, after calculating long term fuel costs, a minor and oxycon become an enticing deal, but adding in regulators, hoses, and such - wow. Thanks much! Jo |
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#2
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Hi Jo, Well you certainly have thought things out! I really don't have
information that you haven't yet explored - except to say that you only need one regulator if you use the oxy con and propane setup - and you will truly love the difference. Oxy cons connect directly to the torch via a hose - with no regulator - only the propane tank will require a regulator - so here is what you will need - two hoses - you already have one, one regulator, propane tank, torch, and oxy con...considering your time, travel and safety you may want to seriously consider this option. Basically the only costs up front for you will be one propane tank regulator, one oxy con, one hose, and one torch. So about $500 up front - but you will never have to worry about refills again and you won't have to travel all over God's creation to fill up. OH, your tank cost sounds OK - I pay $11 for fill up - but different areas have different prices. Happy Beading! Denise www.glassbeadz.com |
#3
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Glitzy Glass wrote: Hi Jo, Well you certainly have thought things out! I really don't have information that you haven't yet explored - except to say that you only need one regulator if you use the oxy con and propane setup - and you will truly love the difference. Oxy cons connect directly to the torch via a hose - with no regulator - only the propane tank will require a regulator - so here is what you will need - two hoses - you already have one, one regulator, propane tank, torch, and oxy con...considering your time, travel and safety you may want to seriously consider this option. Basically the only costs up front for you will be one propane tank regulator, one oxy con, one hose, and one torch. So about $500 up front - but you will never have to worry about refills again and you won't have to travel all over God's creation to fill up. Yes, I've got the economics part of things pretty well down pat now! ----wondering if the motorists passing by and seeing my sign - "Broke, hungry, need Moretti" will take pity and offer help?---- Just trying to figure out the statistical probability of blowing myself up in the meantime ;-D OH, your tank cost sounds OK - I pay $11 for fill up - but different areas have different prices. We are only at $14 for 20lbs. propane, but the bulk propylene was significantly higher at $3.66 per lb. Still beats the little canisters, tho, not to mention the problem of disposing them. Thanks, Jo Happy Beading! Denise www.glassbeadz.com |
#4
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I used a bulk MAPP TANK (still out in my shed)
when I first started. You do need a regulator -- put the regulator ON THE TANK - and attach the hose to the regulator -- then you have no PRESSURE worries on the hose - because the pressure in the hose is only a couple of pounds. yes - it's cheaper even with driving to get it refilled. $22 for it probably is about right - it was $14 when I started - 8 years ago. Cheryl |
#6
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In article . com,
says... I used a bulk MAPP TANK (still out in my shed) when I first started. You do need a regulator -- Not if you're using a HotHead, or any of the smaller torches, as these are designed to run at tank pressure. Jo, you can use a regulator if you want to, or if the gas people require you to have one before they sell you any fuel. But in general you don't need one if you're using one of the beginner torches. I started on a HotHead and bulk MAPP, I never used a regulator. But again, contact your torch manufacturer to make sure. And I'd buy the hoses and whatever accessories from one of the glass suppliers, not from just any old place. Fran http://www.deepwoodart.com |
#7
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FRan
pardon my disagreement - but I had a HOT HEAD and a bulk MAPP tank... the torch would NOT STAY LIT or WORK PROPERLY until I obtained a regulator - then it worked like a dream. I addressed this issue with many people at the time - some had success, and some did not - the reason was never ascertained... however those who switched to a propane single stage regulator found out they had better success and more control with their Hot Head. I couldn't get my HOT HEAD torch to work without it... Cheryl Deepwood Art wrote: Jo, you can use a regulator if you want to, or if the gas people require you to have one before they sell you any fuel. But in general you don't need one if you're using one of the beginner torches. I started on a HotHead and bulk MAPP, I never used a regulator. But again, contact your torch manufacturer to make sure. And I'd buy the hoses and whatever accessories from one of the glass suppliers, not from just any old place. Fran http://www.deepwoodart.com |
#8
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Deepwood Art wrote: In article , says... Switching from MAPP canisters to bulk propylene has been rather discouraging so far after reading the safety posts at isgb forums. Why has it been discouraging? Not to discredit anyone in particular, but it's important to keep in mind, Jo, that a lot of the information you read on open forums is based on opinions and/or personal preferences. Of course. But even in usenet, logic sometimes prevails. I was reading the isgb Safety Forum - in particular, the HH torch hoses, and Bulk Tanks threads. The HH torch is manufactured to run at just under 100 psi (pressure of the one lb. MAPP canisters). Unregulated bulk propylene is tanked at around 120 psi. That is signifcantly more pressure than the plumbed propane or natural gas that is used to heat our homes. Compared to a regulated propane tank coming in at ~5 psi, it comes down to 20+ times more pressure. If there is a leak at the HH, the hose, or the connection - that tank can empty out 20 times faster than the propane tank can (or the gas from your home heating system in the same amount of time) - and into your studio. I think the posters at isgb had valid points. That's what I find discouraging - I wanted to believe I would be operating in a safe manner, but I don't see anything to dispute their very valid points. I don't think I'm crossing any lines when I say that some of the stuff posted on these forums (and passed on as accurate information, even by people who don't have direct experience with whatever is being asked), can be downright scary. It's perfectly fine to use this information as a guideline, but seek second opinions from reputable sources, as well...from particular manufacturers, for instance, or folks whom you know have a certain degree of knowledge on the subject and are not just "parroting" what they hear. Oh, I hear you on that! Fran http://www.deepwoodart.com |
#9
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Cheryl wrote: FRan pardon my disagreement - but I had a HOT HEAD and a bulk MAPP tank... the torch would NOT STAY LIT or WORK PROPERLY until I obtained a regulator - then it worked like a dream. I addressed this issue with many people at the time - some had success, and some did not - the reason was never ascertained... however those who switched to a propane single stage regulator found out they had better success and more control with their Hot Head. I couldn't get my HOT HEAD torch to work without it... One of those things that make you go Hhmmm... The HH manufacturer states a regulator is not needed, but... What pressure did you set the regulator at, and was it a 0 to 300 type? Tank vapor pressures do vary a LOT at various temperatures. Just another thing to think about - on hot days my tank pressures will be greater than 120 psi (maybe 150 - 160) and on cold days, very much less. But with or without the regulator, the safety concerns remain the same unless you can regulate working pressure down to, let's say, 10 or 20? |
#10
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Deepwood Art wrote: And I'd buy the hoses and whatever accessories from one of the glass suppliers, not from just any old place. Fran http://www.deepwoodart.com Oh, then I better put the aquarium air-line stuff away! |
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