Centering and throwing

When I was throwing the other day I was trying to quantify and qualify what
the whole process was all about. One of the things that struck me that may
confuse beginner potters is that when you are wheel wedging (when you make
the towering cone) it is easy to think that what you are doing is pulling
the clay up. You really aren't. You are pushing in and this forces the
clay up which you follow as you push in. If you have on a bat, you can tell
you are doing it wrong if the bat is flopping on the wheel because you are
pulling up and not pushing in.

When you push this cone down, some of us have been taught to bend the cone
over and follow it down. This makes pushing down much easier for very large
pieces of clay but for small pieces it is needless and actually can throw it
off center some. Just push directly down or bend only slightly to the side
and follow down to the center.

Once the wheel wedging is done (the clay feels close to center, nice and
smooth and more 'giving') 'centering' is done for both the shape (flat or
high - a filled donut shape) and having the clay centered. This actually
calls for a very light touch since most of the 'hard' centering is done with
the wedging. Once you have it the shape you want then it is simply a very
light and immobile touch until all feels right to the world. If it feels
like it is going off center lighten your touch. GENTLY remove your hands.
Indent the center and open to the floor.

I now only open the floor that amount which is going to be entirely flat
(unless it is a large pitcher, vase or plate this is typically only an inch
or two. I then reinforce the rim and even out the walls (which at this
stage have a C shape - changed to more of a L). Now I use the rib to form
the bottom curve if the shape is a bowl. Reinforce the rim again and start
pulling. Pulling is actually what it looks like and not what is going on in
my feel of things. You are having equal pressure of pushing in, pushing out
and following up.

The speed of the wheel is important in each of these processes. If things
don't feel easy, adjust the speed. I have the wheel fastest at the
beginning and the slow down as I progress.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone but thought I would throw it out
for consumption. DK

one thought that finally made sence to me was the process is really a
spin form extrusion.

*extrusion* to me helps me understand that the foundation (me) needs to
be solid & firm.

extrusions happen when something is compressed inside something else &
allowed to escape in a controled manner.

see ya

steve

Yep. That works for me.
DK
wrote in message
oups.com...
one thought that finally made sence to me was the process is really a
spin form extrusion.

*extrusion* to me helps me understand that the foundation (me) needs to
be solid & firm.

extrusions happen when something is compressed inside something else &
allowed to escape in a controled manner.

see ya

steve

In article , DKat
writes
When I was throwing the other day I was trying to quantify and qualify what
the whole process was all about. One of the things that struck me that may
confuse beginner potters is that when you are wheel wedging (when you make
the towering cone) it is easy to think that what you are doing is pulling
the clay up. You really aren't. You are pushing in and this forces the
clay up which you follow as you push in. If you have on a bat, you can tell
you are doing it wrong if the bat is flopping on the wheel because you are
pulling up and not pushing in.

When you push this cone down, some of us have been taught to bend the cone
over and follow it down. This makes pushing down much easier for very large
pieces of clay but for small pieces it is needless and actually can throw it
off center some. Just push directly down or bend only slightly to the side
and follow down to the center.

Once the wheel wedging is done (the clay feels close to center, nice and
smooth and more 'giving') 'centering' is done for both the shape (flat or
high - a filled donut shape) and having the clay centered. This actually
calls for a very light touch since most of the 'hard' centering is done with
the wedging. Once you have it the shape you want then it is simply a very
light and immobile touch until all feels right to the world. If it feels
like it is going off center lighten your touch. GENTLY remove your hands.
Indent the center and open to the floor.

I now only open the floor that amount which is going to be entirely flat
(unless it is a large pitcher, vase or plate this is typically only an inch
or two. I then reinforce the rim and even out the walls (which at this
stage have a C shape - changed to more of a L). Now I use the rib to form
the bottom curve if the shape is a bowl. Reinforce the rim again and start
pulling. Pulling is actually what it looks like and not what is going on in
my feel of things. You are having equal pressure of pushing in, pushing out
and following up.

The speed of the wheel is important in each of these processes. If things
don't feel easy, adjust the speed. I have the wheel fastest at the
beginning and the slow down as I progress.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone but thought I would throw it out
for consumption. DK


I think the only comment I would make is to keep the speed sort of mid-
range; with some wheels maximum is so fast it can mean the clay taking
control rather than being controlled, especially for those who are in
the early stages of learning.
I learnt on a seated Treadle Wheel with a one to one kick/rotation
ratio, and still prefer a slow moving wheel-head to a fast one.

Steve
Bath
UK
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

yeah but when you try a big pile of clay "flat out" might knock you
out!

slow down on the pounds!

~ just like the diet i don't follow...

see ya

steve

"Steve Mills" wrote in message

The speed of the wheel is important in each of these processes. If
things
don't feel easy, adjust the speed. I have the wheel fastest at the
beginning and the slow down as I progress.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone but thought I would throw it out
for consumption. DK


I think the only comment I would make is to keep the speed sort of mid-
range; with some wheels maximum is so fast it can mean the clay taking
control rather than being controlled, especially for those who are in
the early stages of learning.
I learnt on a seated Treadle Wheel with a one to one kick/rotation
ratio, and still prefer a slow moving wheel-head to a fast one.

Steve
Bath
UK
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Yes. -

I find it very difficult to explain to anyone what the 'right' speed is but
it really can make a difference in how easy things can be. Faster speeds
give you more force but less control.

You start out patting the clay to center at a moderate to slow speed. If
you are going too 'slow' then it gets more off center than on - too fast and
you have no control and again it becomes more off center. Same for wheel
wedging and centering. Fast gives you the helping force you need to center
but too fast and you lose control. Too fast on a pull and you get too much
clay going up at once and you end up tearing off. Too slow and you can't
get a decent pull. I learned to throw on a Shimpo and have one now. I
really like the handle for controlling speed which to me much easier than
the pedal. Speeds that work for one person don't work for another. When
you use a kick wheel you become more conscious of what the speed of the
wheel is doing. For those who have never had that experience I suggest -
when things don't 'feel' right, try changing the speed of your wheel.

"dkat" wrote in message
...

"Steve Mills" wrote in message

The speed of the wheel is important in each of these processes. If
things
don't feel easy, adjust the speed. I have the wheel fastest at the
beginning and the slow down as I progress.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone but thought I would throw it
out
for consumption. DK


I think the only comment I would make is to keep the speed sort of mid-
range; with some wheels maximum is so fast it can mean the clay taking
control rather than being controlled, especially for those who are in
the early stages of learning.
I learnt on a seated Treadle Wheel with a one to one kick/rotation
ratio, and still prefer a slow moving wheel-head to a fast one.

Steve
Bath
UK
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Yes. -

I find it very difficult to explain to anyone what the 'right' speed is
but
it really can make a difference in how easy things can be. Faster speeds
give you more force but less control.

You start out patting the clay to center at a moderate to slow speed. If
you are going too 'slow' then it gets more off center than on - too fast
and
you have no control and again it becomes more off center. Same for wheel
wedging and centering. Fast gives you the helping force you need to
center
but too fast and you lose control. Too fast on a pull and you get too
much
clay going up at once and you end up tearing off. Too slow and you can't
get a decent pull. I learned to throw on a Shimpo and have one now. I
really like the handle for controlling speed which to me much easier than
the pedal. Speeds that work for one person don't work for another. When
you use a kick wheel you become more conscious of what the speed of the
wheel is doing. For those who have never had that experience I suggest -
when things don't 'feel' right, try changing the speed of your wheel.



I guess it depends on your wheel. The electric wheels I have used probably
do not go as fast as a Shimpo which I believe is a more professional
production type wheel.
The electric wheels that I use are Talisman which I believe is just a NZ
brand.
Anyway, I work by going flat out for centering, most people that I have seen
demonstrate do the same and it is most certainly the way I teach, you do not
loose control, but the wheel does more of the work for you.
However once centred it is necessary to slow down to keep control.
Hey I guess we are all different.

In article , dkat
writes

I find it very difficult to explain to anyone what the 'right' speed is but
it really can make a difference in how easy things can be. Faster speeds
give you more force but less control.

You start out patting the clay to center at a moderate to slow speed. If
you are going too 'slow' then it gets more off center than on - too fast and
you have no control and again it becomes more off center. Same for wheel
wedging and centering. Fast gives you the helping force you need to center
but too fast and you lose control. Too fast on a pull and you get too much
clay going up at once and you end up tearing off. Too slow and you can't
get a decent pull. I learned to throw on a Shimpo and have one now. I
really like the handle for controlling speed which to me much easier than
the pedal. Speeds that work for one person don't work for another. When
you use a kick wheel you become more conscious of what the speed of the
wheel is doing. For those who have never had that experience I suggest -
when things don't 'feel' right, try changing the speed of your wheel.


I agree with you there; speed is a very personal thing. The aspect of
the treadle wheel I particularly liked is that it became part of me,
more so than my electric wheel, as I was the motive power as well as the
user. Sadly aged and overworked joints couldn't cope with the heavier
weights any more so now I rely on a motor and pedal.

Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

In article , Xtra News Annemarie
@nospam.annemariebutler.com writes


I guess it depends on your wheel. The electric wheels I have used probably
do not go as fast as a Shimpo which I believe is a more professional
production type wheel.
The electric wheels that I use are Talisman which I believe is just a NZ
brand.
Anyway, I work by going flat out for centering, most people that I have seen
demonstrate do the same and it is most certainly the way I teach, you do not
loose control, but the wheel does more of the work for you.
However once centred it is necessary to slow down to keep control.
Hey I guess we are all different.


Interestingly the wheel I now use is made in NZ by Cowley, It is a
bullet-proof piece of kit with the only totally indestructible splash
tray I have ever met made of heavy-duty Polypropylene. It has very
simple drive mechanism, and it goes on for ever!

Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Xtra News wrote:
"dkat" wrote in message
...

"Steve Mills" wrote in message


The speed of the wheel is important in each of these processes. If

things

don't feel easy, adjust the speed. I have the wheel fastest at the
beginning and the slow down as I progress.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone but thought I would throw it
out
for consumption. DK



I think the only comment I would make is to keep the speed sort of mid-
range; with some wheels maximum is so fast it can mean the clay taking
control rather than being controlled, especially for those who are in
the early stages of learning.
I learnt on a seated Treadle Wheel with a one to one kick/rotation
ratio, and still prefer a slow moving wheel-head to a fast one.

Steve
Bath
UK
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Yes. -

I find it very difficult to explain to anyone what the 'right' speed is
but
it really can make a difference in how easy things can be. Faster speeds
give you more force but less control.

You start out patting the clay to center at a moderate to slow speed. If
you are going too 'slow' then it gets more off center than on - too fast
and
you have no control and again it becomes more off center. Same for wheel
wedging and centering. Fast gives you the helping force you need to
center
but too fast and you lose control. Too fast on a pull and you get too
much
clay going up at once and you end up tearing off. Too slow and you can't
get a decent pull. I learned to throw on a Shimpo and have one now. I
really like the handle for controlling speed which to me much easier than
the pedal. Speeds that work for one person don't work for another. When
you use a kick wheel you become more conscious of what the speed of the
wheel is doing. For those who have never had that experience I suggest -
when things don't 'feel' right, try changing the speed of your wheel.




I guess it depends on your wheel. The electric wheels I have used probably
do not go as fast as a Shimpo which I believe is a more professional
production type wheel.
The electric wheels that I use are Talisman which I believe is just a NZ
brand.
Anyway, I work by going flat out for centering, most people that I have seen
demonstrate do the same and it is most certainly the way I teach, you do not
loose control, but the wheel does more of the work for you.
However once centred it is necessary to slow down to keep control.
Hey I guess we are all different.

I have used a Shimpo for the last 20 years or so. (I also learned it on
a kickwheel). And my rule of thunb is, - full speed for centering, for
opening the clay, and then, the thinner the wall, the slower the speed.
Once you have a thin neck, you go very, very slowly.

In general, i find it extremely hard to explain throwing in words. Which
is the reason why i don't understand the original posters post. You
simply can't put it in words. Every so often, when i have a student at
the wheel asking questions, i tell them "let me sit down and show you
what i do".

The one advice which i can endorse is, when you feel the clay is
centered, let go very, very gently. Too many times the clay will go out
of center when you let go to suddenly.

The rest, i think, is just learned by doing. To many beginners think
there must be a way to be told how it works. --- There isn't! just keep
at it and it will come. Everybody does it a bit differently.

Monika

--
Monika Schleidt

www.schleidt.org/MSKeramik
if you wish to write me a mail, remove the number from my user name