A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Beads
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The Beadmakers Liberation Front



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old February 11th 04, 12:15 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Of course not. But the fact is, that lampwork art beads are selling better
than lampwork art jewelry right now, so costs are higher and sales lower for
the jewelry designer than the lampwork artist, in general. There are more
jewelry designers than lampwork artists, especially on ebay. It's supply
and demand.
A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a
higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem?

Tina


One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.

If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then

paying
retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if

I'm
going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently.

Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a
necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I

should
double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for

the
amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up

with
wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it

should
sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well
designed.

OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for
$500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I

would
only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the
necklace and get it to the gallery.

Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable.

I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up

on
materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or

$30
on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200.

Tina



Ads
  #32  
Old February 11th 04, 12:18 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Actually, she sells a LOT.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker.
http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html
Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging

$250
for wholesale.

I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this.

Tina



ROFL - Get their prices!! I wonder if they sell any..

It surely makes your point...

Mavis
:-))




  #33  
Old February 11th 04, 12:26 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I totally agree. For me, ebay is still the second best venue with my
website being the best. Except maybe for a local show. Other shows - I have
to factor in travel costs and such, which can be substantial, depending on
location. Galleries/bead stores want wholesale or consignment.
Ebay/PayPal/Credit Card fees come up to about 20% of my prices, generally
speaking, and shipping is really inexpensive. So far, I have gotten really
decent prices on ebay.
My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and
energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out to
be very good. Why? When others say the market sucks and sales are down?
Because I work really freaking hard, and I do my homework. I don't
undervalue my work. I work with the market to get the best prices I can
while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly can.
Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and listen
to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this is
an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much
effort. Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone whacks
me with a tomato!!

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you do
make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this whole
thing.

I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork
beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel
uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a beadmaker
that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work, so
she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but

for
some people ebay is what works.

One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective.

I've
gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for some
beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I
thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc.

I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still

working
on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are

doing
it.

Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white -
raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world.

Kathy K
"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in

the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think

I
bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!"

"I'm
in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be

well
received.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice,

hardworking
and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and

annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value

and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that,

or
trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe

it's
just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet

today,
and
I am cranky.
--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Rita says:
"....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not

only
a
trickle down effect but a landslide."

This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister

and
brother
beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population.

The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but

I've
been
fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't

listen
when
you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted

to
be
dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as

is
evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation
Front"?
Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your

jewelry."
John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html








  #34  
Old February 11th 04, 03:06 PM
meijhana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and
energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out

to
be very good.


This is great!!! When people work at it, then it can be a great system for
them.

I don't
undervalue my work.


This was one of the points I was trying to make.

I work with the market to get the best prices I can
while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly

can.

YEAH!!!!!

Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and

listen
to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this

is
an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much
effort.


I understand that. But also, some people don't know how to start, or how to
find out the information. Sometimes it's "laziness" (i.e. let eBay sell the
item for me. If I put it on there, it should automatically sell with
5million bids). I think part of this is not just "let's set prices" but the
education, also. It's not just support of "aww, poor baby, you aren't
getting your prices, but you need to raise them". But support should also
be sharing of hints and help. But not specifically "Here's the formula for
selling your items and making a million like I do". I agree with most
people when someone comes on here, and says "how do I sell, and where?".
There should be some research, and also, each area is different. But
guiding, and hinting is good. And there *are* "here's the formula" sites
out there! :-)

Well, there's my 2 cents +. Kandice, don't think you are ranting. You are
giving an opinion. If we can work together, this is great! As I posted
over there, it's not so much a thing of price fixing/etc, but we need to
come up with a way to work together, and to value our work. No matter what
level!

Mary

Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone whacks
me with a tomato!!

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you

do
make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this

whole
thing.

I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork
beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel
uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a

beadmaker
that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work,

so
she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but

for
some people ebay is what works.

One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective.

I've
gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for

some
beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I
thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc.

I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still

working
on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are

doing
it.

Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white -
raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world.

Kathy K
"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide

in
the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I

think
I
bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!"

"I'm
in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not

be
well
received.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice,

hardworking
and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and

annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors

value
and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that,

or
trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe

it's
just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet

today,
and
I am cranky.
--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Rita says:
"....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not

only
a
trickle down effect but a landslide."

This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our

sister
and
brother
beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population.

The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but

I've
been
fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't

listen
when
you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I

wanted
to
be
dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads,

as
is
evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers'

Liberation
Front"?
Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your

jewelry."
John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html










  #35  
Old February 11th 04, 03:10 PM
Tinkster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers
buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not
to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit.

I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting
them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears
(eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to
that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads
more from the perspective of their being art glass.

I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept
smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about
this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL!

My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want...
the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out
there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty
of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to
get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your
work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and
hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and
collectors.

Tink

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber"
wrote:

A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a
higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well.


  #36  
Old February 11th 04, 03:18 PM
Harry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:10:16 GMT, Tinkster wrote:

This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers
buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not
to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit.

I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting
them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears
(eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to
that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads
more from the perspective of their being art glass.

I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept
smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about
this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL!

My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want...
the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out
there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty
of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to
get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your
work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and
hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and
collectors.

Tink

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber"
wrote:

A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a
higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well.


Thank you Tink.... Now I do not feel guilty one bit about all the lovely items I
have just sitting here looking beautiful! I didn't want to make them into
jewelry or sell them and now I know it's ok for me to just look at them and
enjoy them. ) I am very happy now and my stress level went WAY down!

Harry
My Ebay Auctions are at http://snipurl.com/3okw
  #37  
Old February 11th 04, 03:31 PM
Karen_AZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

They felt that my wholesale prices were too high, so they couldn't sell them
retail after their markup. I sell the same beads, with my retail markup
(double my wholesale price) with no problems at other shows. I wasn't going
to give them an accounting lesson. One less store with my beads in it isn't
the end of the world.

KarenK

"KDK" wrote in message
...
Did they think your wholesale price was too high? or were they upset
because you were selling items less than they were?

Kathy K
"Karen_AZ" wrote in message
news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04...

"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1076469073.78773@prawn...
Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this

problem?

Tina


It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small

store
owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale

since
it
was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount

for
a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies
were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were
obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not
cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else
complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing
something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had
difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in
several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market

can't
handle that, there's not much I can do about it.


--
KarenK
www.desertdreameraz.com
Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2
Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer






  #38  
Old February 11th 04, 03:41 PM
Karen_AZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks Tina! I've worked hard to get my math right and price my beads
reasonably. I'm earning what I need, never losing money, AND taking into
account all of my costs in the process. More is always great, of course, but
I'm very content with my steady sales.

KarenK

"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1076481429.873981@prawn...
Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your

wholesale
being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal
too.

Tina


"Karen_AZ" wrote in message
news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04...

"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1076469073.78773@prawn...
Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this

problem?

Tina


It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small

store
owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale

since
it
was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount

for
a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies
were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were
obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not
cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else
complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing
something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had
difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in
several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market

can't
handle that, there's not much I can do about it.


--
KarenK
www.desertdreameraz.com
Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2
Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer






  #39  
Old February 11th 04, 05:03 PM
Dr. Sooz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.

If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying
retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm
going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently.


This is what I was thinking.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
  #40  
Old February 11th 04, 05:05 PM
Dr. Sooz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale
being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal
too.


What she said.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.