Tool Needed...

Hi, all.

Jimbo, Wretched Knotter of Cordage here.

I believe I'm within my rights to brag a little.
I just finished my first "good" Eye Splice in 1/2"
laid-core rope!! FWIW, I can well see why so few
knotters bother!

As I'm hopelessly lost in the wilds of the Deep
Southeastern USA, I have not been fortunate to
find a "Splicing Needle", so I had to use
conventional fids for my nice splice. /Brag

I'll not likely do that again!! What a chore!
With a conventional fid, that is. I can see how a
"splicing needle" would work/help/be indispensable
in working with laid core.

So now I'm looking to buy one or three. But
wherever I look (arborist suppliers, rigging
suppliers, riggers, etc. etc.) I get the
proverbial "blank stare" (interesting to watch
over the telephone, BTW) and a "try this other
place" -- so far, I'm getting frayed ends at every
turn.

The tool I'm seeking is called merely a
"needle-like fid" by Colin Jarman in his /The
Essential Knot Book/ (ISBN# 0-07-143237-X). It's
an accurate enough description, but how to
translate that to a SKU number for a clerk
answering the phone?

It's basically not like a "needle" at all, except
that the "front" end has an "eye" of sorts to
hold the core. The "back" end has a large hook
for purchase as you haul the core back through
the splice. At what must be ~15" or so, it's a
sweet-looking tool, and I can see where a laid-
core eye splice could be almost pleasant to make,
if I just had one...

It's significant to me right now because a Good
Friend has just endowed me with access to a bunch
of "ends" (of impressive length) of Dyneema
laid-core rope. It's strong enough I could use
50% reef hitches & not worry about breakage at the
load levels I'm likely to see; but I want to
eye-splice every piece I can get, as much to dress
the ends as to have a way to attach them. And
yes, it *is* "do-able" with braid-on-braid type
fids (and a sturdy pusher), but you'll have to
really, *REALLY* want to! And I even considered
threading some marline through & using it to draw
the core back, but that's actually more work, plus
you'd need some awesome marline to do it all that
way!

Is there anyone who knows where I might buy a
splicing needle? Or is it called a rigger's
needle? Or what is it called? I'd buy a set, if
that's the way they come, but I mainly need one
sized for 1/2".

Thank you in advance for any replies. Please
reply to the group, as I'd like to see more people
learning this, so it won't be so hard to find
tools & techniques in the future.

Apologies for the "Long" post, but that *is* my
last name...

Jim

Jim Long wrote:

Jimbo, Wretched Knotter of Cordage here.

Jimbo! It has been awhile! Looking forward to reading your posts
again!

The tool I'm seeking is called merely a
"needle-like fid" by Colin Jarman in his /The
Essential Knot Book/ (ISBN# 0-07-143237-X).

Barbara Merry in her "The Splicing Handbook" calls the rope "braided
rope with 3 strand core" and says it is also known as "16-plait with 3
strand core". I looked at the pics / graphics in both books - same
rope. She says the braid with 3-strand core is made by Marlow Ropes
and so is the special splicing tool needed to splice it. She says the
Marlow splicing tool is usually available where the rope is sold.
Helpful - huh?

I did a google search with "marlow splicing tool" (no quotation marks
in search) and found this:
http://www.rekord-marine.com/product...=Marlow%20Rope
..
Third item down is Splicing Needle, Dyneema - Marlow. Darn! No image
available!

I believe I'm within my rights to brag a little.
I just finished my first "good" Eye Splice in 1/2"
laid-core rope!!

More than within your rights to brag! I think you might deserve to buy
yourself a "Well Done" present. :-) You might like to check out the
Splicing Wand Large at Brion Toss' site: http://www.briontoss.com/.
Hit CATALOG button; hit Tools button; hit NEXT 10 PRODUCTS button
twice and check out the Splicing Wand Large. Nice present; but, do you
really deserve it? :-)

I hope the above information helps you find a source for the Marlow
splicing needle. When you find it please let us know the details.

Nice to see you are back - Brian.

Ps. I hope that long link works!

Hail and Howdy, fellow Kinker* of Cordage!
____________
* For what is a knot, really, but a clever kink in a cord?
____________


Brian Grimley wrote:

Jimbo! It has been awhile! Looking forward to reading your posts
again!

As a great mind once said: "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!"
I am honored to be remembered.

Barbara Merry in her "The Splicing Handbook" calls the rope "braided
rope with 3 strand core" and says it is also known as "16-plait with 3
strand core". I looked at the pics / graphics in both books - same
rope.

Such is my burden. The nomenclature needs brushing up. A "braid-on-braid" (aka "double braid", aka "Kernmantle" (although Kernmantle
just means a core (kern) with a sheath (mantle), and has been used on laid-core as well), etc., etc.) has a multi-strand *braided*
core. The stuff I'm getting has a 3-strand core if you separate it like that, but that's like braiding your hair (unless you actually
*have* a 3-strand head!!). It looks to me like three strands, but if you roll it between your fingers a little, it's hard to see it
that way anymore. And by the time I get it separated out it's just a frayed mess.

She says the braid with 3-strand core is made by Marlow Ropes

Saaaaay!! You *are* good! Marlowe and POLY-PRODUKTER are the two main sources for the leftover ends I'm using.

And Marlowe has a semi-decent PDF showing splicing & knotting:
http://www.marlowropes.co.uk/yachtin...g_document.pdf
....but it's hard to read & harder to follow. However, for diehards like us, it works.

and so is the special splicing tool needed to splice it. She says the
Marlow splicing tool is usually available where the rope is sold.
Helpful - huh?

Yeah, except I'm getting "trash" for free. And the friend who's helping me says it's impossible to splice the laid-core. I just
eye-spliced a piece of the double braid (or "braid-on-braid", etc.) in less time than it took to record one side of a 90-minute
cassette, so I'm guessing "impossible" meant "... to cost-justify".

I did a google search with "marlow splicing tool" (no quotation marks
in search) and found this:
http://www.rekord-marine.com/product...=Marlow%20Rope
.

Not to criticize Rekord Marine, but Marlowe is spelt with an 'e'.

Third item down is Splicing Needle, Dyneema - Marlow. Darn! No image
available!

That's okay, the image is forever burned into my mind's eye!

Here's one idea a good night's sleep produced: I'm going to find a piece of piano wire, something in the 1/16" range, and bend it
carefully (maybe a 1/8" radius) in the center, then bend matching thumb-hooks in the ends. Then I'd just have to shove enough of this
mess through the sheath to allow me to spread the side-pieces apart enough to get the core through. Dittos for the strands of the
sheath to finish it. FWIW, I don't like the way a whipped throat looks, not even if it's served and parceled!! And burying the
sheath in a laid-core eye splice looks awsomely hard to pull off! Unlaying it & weaving the strands into the Spart under the throat
seems "cleanest", but just the thought of that has me seriously considering using the laid-core for the dogs and getting
braid-on-braid for anything that needs an eye!

I wonder... If I were to bind the sheath to the core -- somehow -- down to where the first "strand" of the core comes out of the
sheath... Then the sheath should come into the bury with the core... (shakes head, slaps self, splashes cold water) I don't *think*
so! Maybe ... But it'll take some thought...

Seriously, I figure if I took a bight in a length of marline (i.e. the braided brickmason's cord I have for decorations & heavy
whipping & serving), pushed it through with a small fid, then used it to pull the core back through... That might work if the
brickmason's cord doesn't break...

More than within your rights to brag! I think you might deserve to buy
yourself a "Well Done" present. :-)

ROTFLOL!!! Thank you! If someone were actually *paying* me for this, I'd agree. How about if I just extend my arm straight up,
bend it at the elbow, and give myself a firm pat on the back? LOL Your kind comment makes me feel better than the splice did!

You might like to check out the
Splicing Wand Large at Brion Toss' site: http://www.briontoss.com/.
Hit CATALOG button; hit Tools button; hit NEXT 10 PRODUCTS button
twice and check out the Splicing Wand Large.

The handle scares me. I'd bet it would pop off. But then I'd bend the shaft & have exactly what Marlowe and Colin Jarman show! So
for $55.00 American, I'm going to have to let Mr. Toss enjoy his own work.

Nice present; but, do you
really deserve it? :-)

Not to the tune of $55.00!! ;^D I'm sure it's worth the price charged, or at least the market thinks so; but I can't afford the
$35.00 I just spent for the book and Samson's splicing kit (basically a handful of fids & a pusher)! This is just a hobby for me, so
"deserve" doesn't get the justice it "deserves" ... (okay, sue me for the pun, alrady!)...

I hope the above information helps you find a source for the Marlow
splicing needle. When you find it please let us know the details.

All information is helpful. The fun part is finding a useful application for the information. Thank you for contributing!

Nice to see you are back - Brian.

Thank you!! I never actually "left", I've just been lurking a lot lately. And scrambling a lot for the odd buck or two for the
Mortgage Bankers. When the night soil hits the air circulating device I like to "duck & cover" and check up on r.c.k.

Ps. I hope that long link works!

Did. ditto for mine.

TTFN.

Jimbo the Wretched, Knotter of Cordage

Oops, my bad!

Jim Long wrote:

Brian Grimley wrote:

I did a google search with "marlow splicing tool" (no quotation marks
in search) and found this:
http://www.rekord-marine.com/product...=Marlow%20Rope
.

Not to criticize Rekord Marine, but Marlowe is spelt with an 'e'.

I don't know why I wrote that! I was wrong, and just ###ed it up. I apologize. And yes, I was stone, cold sober!

And the worst part of it is, I had just looked at their WWWeb page:
http://www.marlowropes.co.uk/yachting/default.htm
to get the link to: http://www.marlowropes.co.uk/yachtin...g_document.pdf
which doesn't use an 'e' either, so I really should've known better.

Whew!

Jim Long wrote:


Not to criticize Rekord Marine, but Marlowe is spelt with an 'e'.

I don't know why I wrote that!

You had a flashback to an English Lit. class on Renaissance English
Dramatists / Poets. Please, don't worry, it happens to us all
eventually!

And yes, I was stone, cold sober!

Good thing! Apparently, Christopher Marlowe was killed in a drunken
bar brawl! Some say he was murdered because he was a spy (James Bond
in tights and a lovely ruffled linen collar). Personally, I suspect
the brawl was over how many tucks should be used when eye splicing a
3-strand hemp rope!

... and just ###ed it up.

Isn't that spelled ####ed? :-)

Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle - Brian.

Update:

Once again, good old-fashioned Yankee Ingenuity, combined with good old-fashioned Rebel cheap-@$$, has led to a nifty (IMNERHO)
work-around.

For eye-splicing laid-core Kernmantle, with tools you can acquire at Wally World instead of a hard-to-find splicing needle, you can
make do with these:

1: a large crochet needle (Mine's a size 10 -- about 14" long)
1a: a small crochet needle might come in handy ...
2: several feet of marline or brick mason's cord (laid or braid, it needs to be small and very, very strong)
3: a Samson post or other fixed attaching point (your great toe won't be stout enough, I promise)
4: I *know* you already have a marlinspike!! Get it out. If you don't, a knitting needle makes a dandy marlinspike.
5: The right pair of scissors can be a big help in tapering the core (kern) and case (mantle). The big, angled ones that'll cut a
penny (the ads don't lie) are my faves, because they're serrated & the fibers don't slip ... much. And who doesn't love defacing the
Coin of the Realm?

As I am the mayor and chief bottle washer of Cheap-@$$-ville, I don't have a nifty digital camera, so mere words will have to do from
here on. Sorry. Feel free to send me a digital camera if you want pix. ;^)

First, get this:
http://www.marlowropes.co.uk/yachtin...g_document.pdf
and look at the first page. Study it carefully and print it if you can. Please be sure to thank Marlow (no 'e') somehow!

Make your marks distinctly, as whenever the instructions say "push the case back up the core", they mean it! And they understate the
need dramatically. You can't get enough slack in the case to make this easy!

When you open the case to extract the core, the small crochet needle might help get every last strand. If your laid-core has any sort
of "lay" to it, before you open the case, you might tighten the lay a bit with your fingers. You'll want it "normal" later, but a
little tightness will help start it out of the case. Make sure you get every last strand. As the core will be quite frayed after
this, take the time to "comb" it now. Make it as smooth and pretty as you can.

In Step 4, where you insert the splicing needle, get out your large crochet needle. Push the crochet needle in at mark A, where the
core will ultimately go, and feed it carefully past the core you'll encounter at mark B, and on past to make an adequate tail.
"Adequate" may not be 35cm for 10mm rope, but you're welcome to try. Just get it as far past B as you can, without tangling the core
inside as you go. If you pull on the core some as you pass mark B, it might help. If you've tied your constraining knot up the rope,
you can hold the core, pull back the case against it, and hold the whole mess by the core where it exits at mark B. This will help
keep all the slack in the case. You'll need it!

You might want to remove the "button" on the end of the crochet needle, if you need to go too far through the case. A fid pusher
would help, or you can just "milk" it along.

Your marlinspike or normal fid will come in handy to open the case & let the crochet needle out.

When the hook of the crochet needle comes out, take a very long bight in your marline and hang it on the crochet needle. A Blackwall
hitch might help here, if the hook will hold it. Work the crochet needle back into the case without snagging OR losing the marline.
Use the crochet needle to get your marline bight out at mark A. You're seeing this now, right? The marline takes the place of the
splicing needle. That's the big secret. Now it can be told. You can go home now, I'm just entertaining myself from here on, as no
one in his or her right (or left) mind would ever attempt this themselves.

Don't yield to the temptation to put a long bight of core through the marline for pulling!! Make it easy on yourself & keep the
doubled part small. It won't pull loose inside the case, but it will be hard to pull after you pass B! Tapering the core helps a
lot, if you fold the taper in half through the marline. A bit of gaffers tape will keep all the core strands together after the
taper.

Here's where your samson post becomes your very best friend. Once you get the core started in to the case a little (to hold the
fold), make both ends of the marline fast to the post. Now grab the case between A & the retaining knot and haul away! Yes, it will
be hard! If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. As you struggle, contemplate the beauty of the humble snake. Go over your
theoretical physics homework in your mind. Recite the lyrics to BTO's "Takin' Care Of Business", whatever. Just keep working,
pulling, hauling, "milking" the case over your core-bight. As it pops out, you will fall down. Get up, rejoice and have a drink.
Now for the really hard part!

Now work the case and core to settle them together, making the core part of your eye loop to its final size. Ignore the long piece of
case for now, just pretend-finish your eye right and tight. When it's darned near perfect, you'll be able to see where the excess
case needs to go in the bury -- about 2 or 5 rope diameters down from the throat seems aesthetic, or halfway between the throat and
the end of the core tail. YBTJ. (Maybe we can discuss the relative merits of equal-length tails vs. just enough bury of the case to
look pretty...) Slip the marlinspike or a toothpick in here and recover as much of the case slack as you can. You'll want more case
slack than you can possibly get, so don't be shy. You'll consider the bad word, "compromise" here. Too far into the bury, your
excess case will be too hard to pull, too close to the throat, the excess case will pull out. YBTJ and YMMV...

After you get a lot of slack in the case, push the wee crochet needle in at the throat, on the outside of the loop, and work it
between the case & core and out at the proper place. (Okay the toothpick wasn't necessary if your eyes can hold the spot.) Catch
your bight of marline again and get it back out at the throat. Taper the excess core quite a bit, but don't take much of it off yet.
Fold the taper into the marline bight, reattach the marline to the samson post, and haul away again.

As before, you will haul and pull and milk and cuss and all that until finally the excess case will pop out and you'll fall on your
butt!

Here's an aesthetic tip: pull a bunch of the excess case through, then let it come back out into the eye as you re-settle the case
around the core. This will keep the case tight around the eye as you go.

Now you'll pick up on the Marlow (no 'e') instructions to finish at step 7.

If you trim-&-bury the excess core first, then the case, you can make sure the case doesn't shorten up too much, which would make the
eye sloppy. OTOH, that makes it hard to bury the case all the way. This is where a decent-length bury comes in handy, IF you have
enough room to get it.

Last but not least, extend your arm straight up, bend at the elbow, and give yourself a firm pat on the back. You have just earned
it, and how!!

Now I'm going to post this. If anyone cares to comment, flame, or discuss it, I'm happy just to get it written down. I don't expect
anyone will even notice this or read this far, but it was fun writing it, so I hope you enjoyed reading it.

Thank you!
_____________ Non-self-effacing .SIG starts here
Jimbo
Wretched Kinker of Cordage
Cords kinked while you wait.
Eyes spliced at extra cost. Splices eyed for free.
Cross-eyed splices my specialty -- the best in all of Cordage.
Be Here Now. (Be There Then.)
_____________ /.SIG