Twelve dollars

Because the person who started it all is not cooperative and doesn't do
anything voluntarily. Plus, money seems to matter a great deal to her, as
much as she refers to it.
--
Jere


"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Please explain to me , if this was all A Co-operative Voluntary
project , why does one person have Her `expenses` imbursed , i
followed this SAGA ,,, and just lost the thread of who ows what to
whom and why ,,,
mirjam

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Please explain to me , if this was all A Co-operative Voluntary
project , why does one person have Her `expenses` imbursed , i
followed this SAGA ,,, and just lost the thread of who ows what to
whom and why ,,,
mirjam

My sentiments exactly.
Dianne

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:44:31 GMT, "Jere Williams"
wrote:

Because the person who started it all is not cooperative and doesn't do
anything voluntarily. Plus, money seems to matter a great deal to her, as
much as she refers to it.

Mary offered to pay me my costs a long time ago if it meant she could
get "rid of me." Because we had many months where the angel was not
located and that totally ****ed me off. I'm sorry I ever did this
angel. You may think you know me, but I assure you, you don't.

I don't think I know you, and I'm certain I don't want to know you. I try
to keep negative people out of my life.

Much of the time the angel was "just sitting" was when it was in your
possession.

You keep saying you want to be left out of this. Why don't you just leave
yourself out of it, and stop posting and/or responding to the topic?
--
Jere


"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:44:31 GMT, "Jere Williams"
wrote:

Because the person who started it all is not cooperative and doesn't do
anything voluntarily. Plus, money seems to matter a great deal to her,
as
much as she refers to it.

Mary offered to pay me my costs a long time ago if it meant she could
get "rid of me." Because we had many months where the angel was not
located and that totally ****ed me off. I'm sorry I ever did this
angel. You may think you know me, but I assure you, you don't.

Vic wrote & I respond:
... Public scrutiny? What is this, a murder trial? .....
Actually YES -- this is a murder trial of sorts. It seems to me that
you have done your best to basically "murder" my reputation on RCTN and
convince people I am some sort of ogre -- a horrid person all around. I
feel much safer discussing this publicly so that no one will be able to
"tell tales" behind my back about what I allegedly said in an e-mail
that only the recipient has original access to. I will have to say that
I do not trust you to be logical in your assessment of anything relating
to this project.

....Calm down. Even Ginger only charges 33 cents a skein. That's not the
point. You seem to forget all the copying, mailing, envelopes to each
stitcher with a working copy, the tube which somehow I was told got
lost or destroyed, on and on. ......
I have said repeatedly that it was your choice to spend the money on all
of the extra copying, mailing, envelopes, etc. No one asked you to do
this and it was not expected. I had no intention of reimbursing you for
that because it was something done that was not necessary to the
project. You wanted to be reimbursed for the **materials** you supplied
-- specifically the floss and the bobbins and you have been reimbursed
for the floss and the bobbins will be returned to you ASAP. When Janet
replaced the laminated chart, I'm sure she had to send it in a tube.
When I sent you the scroll rods, they were sent in a tube. That means
you have gotten two mailing tubes so that expense has also been taken
care of.

....You have never once turned the other cheek. Right from the very first
post I made to rctn you emailed me to control how I post. I changed
computers over the years, but I remember when Trish was here and tried
to censor our discussion about something. ......
For this go round of the bickering, you're right -- I have NOT turned
the other cheek and don't plan to do so. In the past, I have ignored
the mean & nasty stuff that was posted.

Slandered? Give some examples of this "slander and villification."
For starters, you posted the following:
18 May @ 3:52 PM: "...like a good control freak. You must have very
low expectations of character."
@ 9:53 AM: "Caryn, from the very moment this was suggested as
a project, she took control. She is some control freak, an admitted
vindictive person.
@ 9:55 AM: "The destination is not the FDNY, it is One Police
Plaza, the NYPD Headquarters down on Broadway and 42nd St. I guess as
the boss, you weren't paying attention to that."
@ 6:25 PM: "But, this is not the church so take your
controlling **** with how my Lama sees me and tell it to someone who
buys into your idiocy."
17 May @ 2:14 PM: "You are so petty it's beyond belief."
@ 7:59 PM: "Don't bother. They are 50 for a few dollars.
Do what you want. You always do, spiteful and vindictive and all. You
are so petty it's beyond belief."
I won't bother to search out the posts stating that I basically
stole the project from you -- in essence calling me a thief. The above
excerpts are enough to prove my point.

--
PAX, Tia Mary (RCTQ Queen of Kitties) ^;;^
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about
their WHISKERS!
See my Webshots albums at http://community.webshots.com/user/tiamary

Jere Williams wrote:
Tia Mary, I think we need to realize that whenever Vic needs a jolt of
something in her life, she goes trolling here for an argument (generally in
the form of a post she then protests to have been "innocent"). I've watched
it happen again and again and again.

I couldn't pretend to know why it's like that. Or why Caryn does that
knee-jerk response of defending whatever meanness spews forth.


Jere,

I just call it like I see it. Tia Mary plays the victim here, when
she's no angel herself. She makes little digs while crying about how
she's been wronged. Meanwhile, she'll say something petty to belittle
Victoria's contribution to this project. Considering the original
concept was Victoria's I think that counts as a big contribution. So
what if she wants the leftovers back, is it actually going to hurt
anybody to send them to her? I mean really hurt them? Was it actually
"nice" for Tia Mary to put up a dollar figure (without benefit of
seeing Victoria's original receipts) just to make Victoria look petty
for wanting the leftovers back?

I get angry when I see one person picked on like Victoria gets picked
on. She is hardly the only person on rctn who "picks fights". Sheena
does it constantly. Gill attacks Vic's religion, or her following of
it, for no reason I've ever been able to discern. Elizabeth has (in
the past) admitted to purposely provoking Mirjam. It would seem that a
lot of the "regulars" are no better than Victoria (or myself).

BTW, Victoria isn't evil unless all the above mentioned people are as
well.

Caryn



Tia Mary, NOTHING you can do will ever satisfy Vic. That's because it's not
about you. You didn't cause it, you can't fix it.

There is so much meanness and sadness in the world today, and so many of us
receive so much peace and comfort from our stitching, it'd be nice if this
was a place we could share that instead. I don't know why it's not like
that. I suppose I'm just too naive for the twenty-first century.

I had determined to ignore Vic. I admire you very much, Tia Mary, for
determining to continuing to take it all on, and continuing to respond. You
know what Edmund Burke said -- the only thing necessary for evil to triumph
is for good men (people in general?) to do nothing.

--
Jere


"Tia Mary" wrote in message
...
Jangchub wrote:
I already sent you a break down of what I had to buy and you know
exactly how much I spent. I was acknowledging the recipt of your
mail. I didn't want to send you an email, so I did this here.

Sorry Vic, but I have never received anything from you outlining your
expenses for this project. You must have sent an e-mail or *someone* on
the group would have seen the post and likely mentioned it. Other than
sending you more money to cover the cost of the DMC, I'm not sure just
what you would like me to do.
I had hoped that this could be dealt with privately but that doesn't
seem to be what you would prefer. I'm sure many in the group would
prefer that this be handled privately in e-mail but I don't think that
would be wise now. Better it is dealt with publicly where how WE deal
with each other can be held up to public scrutiny.
I shall go on the record by saying that I sent Victoria $12.00 to
cover the cost of the 42 skeins of DMC floss called for in the chart. I
know that the chain stores often sell floss at 4/$1.00 and that is how I
determined that $12.00 would likely be adequate. Since Vic has
proclaimed long and loudly that she would never set foot in Ginger's
(the only LNS anywhere near where she lives) I knew that she hadn't
bought the floss there and paid the more expensive price that LNS must
charge for DMC (and this is why I said most LNS don't sell DMC but
Anchor instead). If people think I didn't send Vic enough money then I
will gladly send her additional money to cover the cost of what the
chain stores sell DMC for at full cost.
I returned all of the Needlepaints fibers, the small individual
baggies for the floss bobbins, the metal rings the baggies were on and
the virtually brand new replacement chart that Janet had bought. Janet
had already sent Vic a brand new laminated chart to replace the one that
Vic had originally had laminated and sent along with the project. I
have said repeated that I don't feel Vic needs to be reimbursed for any
of the copies of the chart that she says she sent to everyone on the
rotation list.
Except for the floss bobbins, Vic now has everything she originally
provided or money to cover replacement costs. Carolyn has the bobbined
floss and will send Vic the bobbins as soon as possible.
I'm honestly not sure what else I can do at this point except ignore
the mean, nasty posts and that's not going to happen. Just remember that
I WILL NOT allow any meanness to go unanswered. I am honestly trying
not to be any sort of negative but I will not "turn the other cheek" any
more. I have been slandered and vilified far too often to allow it to
continue unanswered. If the group has any *constructive*
recommendations (no, I won't just let it pass -- sorry), then please
share them.

--
PAX, Tia Mary (RCTQ Queen of Kitties) ^;;^
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about
their WHISKERS!
See my Webshots albums at http://community.webshots.com/user/tiamary

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 20:44:34 GMT, lucretia borgia
wrote:

Jangchub ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote
and saddened us with

There is one sure way to end this immediately. Vic how much do you
reckon you are owed ? State your expenses here and total it up and
we will all contribute and get it paid off and done with. That way,
there will be nothing more to be spiteful about.

I fail to understand it - you did things willingly and if you really
didn't expect to be paid for them - why start all this now and undo
any nice thing that you did do originally? I have not had any part
in this project but I am willing to contribute to this idea if it ends
the very inelegant, stupid, pettiness of it all.

I NEVER asked to be paid. Mary sarcastically said she'd rather pay me
and shut me up, or something to that effect. Then she was going to
auction off the remaining stuff, to which I said I think I should get
those back because I wound all the bobbins, marked them, etc. I never
ever asked to be paid for anything.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:50:51 -0400, Tia Mary
wrote:

Vic wrote & I respond:
... Public scrutiny? What is this, a murder trial? .....
Actually YES -- this is a murder trial of sorts. It seems to me that
you have done your best to basically "murder" my reputation on RCTN and
convince people I am some sort of ogre -- a horrid person all around. I
feel much safer discussing this publicly so that no one will be able to
"tell tales" behind my back about what I allegedly said in an e-mail
that only the recipient has original access to. I will have to say that
I do not trust you to be logical in your assessment of anything relating
to this project.

....Calm down. Even Ginger only charges 33 cents a skein. That's not the
point. You seem to forget all the copying, mailing, envelopes to each
stitcher with a working copy, the tube which somehow I was told got
lost or destroyed, on and on. ......
I have said repeatedly that it was your choice to spend the money on all
of the extra copying, mailing, envelopes, etc. No one asked you to do
this and it was not expected. I had no intention of reimbursing you for
that because it was something done that was not necessary to the
project. You wanted to be reimbursed for the **materials** you supplied
-- specifically the floss and the bobbins and you have been reimbursed
for the floss and the bobbins will be returned to you ASAP. When Janet
replaced the laminated chart, I'm sure she had to send it in a tube.
When I sent you the scroll rods, they were sent in a tube. That means
you have gotten two mailing tubes so that expense has also been taken
care of.

....You have never once turned the other cheek. Right from the very first
post I made to rctn you emailed me to control how I post. I changed
computers over the years, but I remember when Trish was here and tried
to censor our discussion about something. ......
For this go round of the bickering, you're right -- I have NOT turned
the other cheek and don't plan to do so. In the past, I have ignored
the mean & nasty stuff that was posted.

Slandered? Give some examples of this "slander and villification."
For starters, you posted the following:
18 May @ 3:52 PM: "...like a good control freak. You must have very
low expectations of character."
@ 9:53 AM: "Caryn, from the very moment this was suggested as
a project, she took control. She is some control freak, an admitted
vindictive person.
@ 9:55 AM: "The destination is not the FDNY, it is One Police
Plaza, the NYPD Headquarters down on Broadway and 42nd St. I guess as
the boss, you weren't paying attention to that."
@ 6:25 PM: "But, this is not the church so take your
controlling **** with how my Lama sees me and tell it to someone who
buys into your idiocy."
17 May @ 2:14 PM: "You are so petty it's beyond belief."
@ 7:59 PM: "Don't bother. They are 50 for a few dollars.
Do what you want. You always do, spiteful and vindictive and all. You
are so petty it's beyond belief."
I won't bother to search out the posts stating that I basically
stole the project from you -- in essence calling me a thief. The above
excerpts are enough to prove my point.

I doubt me calling you a control freak ruined your reputation. And I
also doubt I'm the first person to ever say that to you.

I never called a particular person evil. I've known one truly evil person
in my life, and it wasn't anyone on this newsgroup. I don't know Vic, and I
don't want to know Vic -- but I know some of her posts have surely felt
evil. Whether she is evil is not up to me to determine.

There are fights here all the time. Vic is the only person I have
personally seen who seems to go trolling for them.

But there may be others. I'm not an expert. I don't want to be an expert
on that particular subject.

I don't like it either when I see someone being picked on. That was not my
perception in this case. I called it as I saw it.

--
Jere


wrote in message
ups.com...

Jere Williams wrote:
Tia Mary, I think we need to realize that whenever Vic needs a jolt of
something in her life, she goes trolling here for an argument (generally
in
the form of a post she then protests to have been "innocent"). I've
watched
it happen again and again and again.

I couldn't pretend to know why it's like that. Or why Caryn does that
knee-jerk response of defending whatever meanness spews forth.


Jere,

I just call it like I see it. Tia Mary plays the victim here, when
she's no angel herself. She makes little digs while crying about how
she's been wronged. Meanwhile, she'll say something petty to belittle
Victoria's contribution to this project. Considering the original
concept was Victoria's I think that counts as a big contribution. So
what if she wants the leftovers back, is it actually going to hurt
anybody to send them to her? I mean really hurt them? Was it actually
"nice" for Tia Mary to put up a dollar figure (without benefit of
seeing Victoria's original receipts) just to make Victoria look petty
for wanting the leftovers back?

I get angry when I see one person picked on like Victoria gets picked
on. She is hardly the only person on rctn who "picks fights". Sheena
does it constantly. Gill attacks Vic's religion, or her following of
it, for no reason I've ever been able to discern. Elizabeth has (in
the past) admitted to purposely provoking Mirjam. It would seem that a
lot of the "regulars" are no better than Victoria (or myself).

BTW, Victoria isn't evil unless all the above mentioned people are as
well.

Caryn



Tia Mary, NOTHING you can do will ever satisfy Vic. That's because it's
not
about you. You didn't cause it, you can't fix it.

There is so much meanness and sadness in the world today, and so many of
us
receive so much peace and comfort from our stitching, it'd be nice if
this
was a place we could share that instead. I don't know why it's not like
that. I suppose I'm just too naive for the twenty-first century.

I had determined to ignore Vic. I admire you very much, Tia Mary, for
determining to continuing to take it all on, and continuing to respond.
You
know what Edmund Burke said -- the only thing necessary for evil to
triumph
is for good men (people in general?) to do nothing.

--
Jere


"Tia Mary" wrote in message
...
Jangchub wrote:
I already sent you a break down of what I had to buy and you know
exactly how much I spent. I was acknowledging the recipt of your
mail. I didn't want to send you an email, so I did this here.

Sorry Vic, but I have never received anything from you outlining
your
expenses for this project. You must have sent an e-mail or *someone*
on
the group would have seen the post and likely mentioned it. Other
than
sending you more money to cover the cost of the DMC, I'm not sure just
what you would like me to do.
I had hoped that this could be dealt with privately but that
doesn't
seem to be what you would prefer. I'm sure many in the group would
prefer that this be handled privately in e-mail but I don't think that
would be wise now. Better it is dealt with publicly where how WE deal
with each other can be held up to public scrutiny.
I shall go on the record by saying that I sent Victoria $12.00 to
cover the cost of the 42 skeins of DMC floss called for in the chart.
I
know that the chain stores often sell floss at 4/$1.00 and that is how
I
determined that $12.00 would likely be adequate. Since Vic has
proclaimed long and loudly that she would never set foot in Ginger's
(the only LNS anywhere near where she lives) I knew that she hadn't
bought the floss there and paid the more expensive price that LNS must
charge for DMC (and this is why I said most LNS don't sell DMC but
Anchor instead). If people think I didn't send Vic enough money then
I
will gladly send her additional money to cover the cost of what the
chain stores sell DMC for at full cost.
I returned all of the Needlepaints fibers, the small individual
baggies for the floss bobbins, the metal rings the baggies were on and
the virtually brand new replacement chart that Janet had bought.
Janet
had already sent Vic a brand new laminated chart to replace the one
that
Vic had originally had laminated and sent along with the project. I
have said repeated that I don't feel Vic needs to be reimbursed for
any
of the copies of the chart that she says she sent to everyone on the
rotation list.
Except for the floss bobbins, Vic now has everything she originally
provided or money to cover replacement costs. Carolyn has the
bobbined
floss and will send Vic the bobbins as soon as possible.
I'm honestly not sure what else I can do at this point except
ignore
the mean, nasty posts and that's not going to happen. Just remember
that
I WILL NOT allow any meanness to go unanswered. I am honestly trying
not to be any sort of negative but I will not "turn the other cheek"
any
more. I have been slandered and vilified far too often to allow it to
continue unanswered. If the group has any *constructive*
recommendations (no, I won't just let it pass -- sorry), then please
share them.

--
PAX, Tia Mary (RCTQ Queen of Kitties) ^;;^
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about
their WHISKERS!
See my Webshots albums at http://community.webshots.com/user/tiamary

It was perceived by this group to be petty and small minded when you asked
for your things back.

If you're going to keep involving yourself in this discussion, after you
repeatedly say you are washing your hands of all of it, then take the
consequences of your actions.
--
Jere


"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 20:44:34 GMT, lucretia borgia
wrote:

Jangchub ,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote
and saddened us with

There is one sure way to end this immediately. Vic how much do you
reckon you are owed ? State your expenses here and total it up and
we will all contribute and get it paid off and done with. That way,
there will be nothing more to be spiteful about.

I fail to understand it - you did things willingly and if you really
didn't expect to be paid for them - why start all this now and undo
any nice thing that you did do originally? I have not had any part
in this project but I am willing to contribute to this idea if it ends
the very inelegant, stupid, pettiness of it all.

I NEVER asked to be paid. Mary sarcastically said she'd rather pay me
and shut me up, or something to that effect. Then she was going to
auction off the remaining stuff, to which I said I think I should get
those back because I wound all the bobbins, marked them, etc. I never
ever asked to be paid for anything.