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#1
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Lampwork question
If any lampworkers or lampwork afficionados could give me your opinions
regarding hard and soft glass, I'd appreciate it. I have read and read, looked at sites, ingested these posts and I now know that there is a huge difference between boro glass and soft glass. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? As with any art, once you have expertise, you can glance at something and say - this, this and this is good, this is bad. A typesetter "ows" at poor kerning, a knitter at dropped stitches. So I don't know what you/y'all are seeing when you show links to various beads that you've stumbled across and everyone oohs and ahs. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. Anyone? Gracias! Live and be well, Christy |
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#2
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Boro is a completely different animal, and a lot of lampworkers stay away
simply because it's more expensive and you need a hotter torch to work it. I personally don't like the colors nearly as much as Moretti and Bullseye. I think boro is pretty, but not something I want bad enough to spend the extra money. The glass itself is quite a bit more expensive than Moretti. Boro beads don't necessarily have a clear coating, and many Moretti beads have a clear coating. It's a matter of preference on the part if the beadmaker. Boro beads look that way because it is the nature of the glass. It's incredibly difficult to do geometric patterns with boro - the nature of the glass is such that one color can turn many different colors in the heat. Boro takes a lot of practice as well - even more than soft glass in my opinion. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net If any lampworkers or lampwork afficionados could give me your opinions regarding hard and soft glass, I'd appreciate it. I have read and read, looked at sites, ingested these posts and I now know that there is a huge difference between boro glass and soft glass. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? As with any art, once you have expertise, you can glance at something and say - this, this and this is good, this is bad. A typesetter "ows" at poor kerning, a knitter at dropped stitches. So I don't know what you/y'all are seeing when you show links to various beads that you've stumbled across and everyone oohs and ahs. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. Anyone? Gracias! Live and be well, Christy |
#3
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From my readings, etc., hard glass is harder to work with and I the glass
can be more expensive. Plus I think the torch setup is different, too. Look here for prices on Glass Alchemy glass (hard glass) $49 per pound: http://www.artglass1.com/glass-alchemy-w.htm Northstar is a bit cheaper: http://www.artglass1.com/northstar-glass-r.htm Compare to Moretti ($7-8 per pound): http://www.artglass1.com/morettir.htm I know many of the lampworkers will weigh in on this, but wanted to get you started with a few links. -- Barbara www.penguintrax.com eBay: pnguintrax Justbeadsenguintrax 0 /O\ "CLP" wrote in message news:eTR0b.3962$j26.1336@lakeread02... If any lampworkers or lampwork afficionados could give me your opinions regarding hard and soft glass, I'd appreciate it. I have read and read, looked at sites, ingested these posts and I now know that there is a huge difference between boro glass and soft glass. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? As with any art, once you have expertise, you can glance at something and say - this, this and this is good, this is bad. A typesetter "ows" at poor kerning, a knitter at dropped stitches. So I don't know what you/y'all are seeing when you show links to various beads that you've stumbled across and everyone oohs and ahs. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. Anyone? Gracias! Live and be well, Christy |
#4
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Thanks, Kandice. I appreciate the input.
"the nature of the glass is such that one color can turn many different colors in the heat." Like raku issues, sort of? -- "Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer." Washington Post Style Invitational "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message news:XeS0b.210788$YN5.146091@sccrnsc01... Boro is a completely different animal, and a lot of lampworkers stay away simply because it's more expensive and you need a hotter torch to work it. I personally don't like the colors nearly as much as Moretti and Bullseye. I think boro is pretty, but not something I want bad enough to spend the extra money. The glass itself is quite a bit more expensive than Moretti. Boro beads don't necessarily have a clear coating, and many Moretti beads have a clear coating. It's a matter of preference on the part if the beadmaker. Boro beads look that way because it is the nature of the glass. It's incredibly difficult to do geometric patterns with boro - the nature of the glass is such that one color can turn many different colors in the heat. Boro takes a lot of practice as well - even more than soft glass in my opinion. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net If any lampworkers or lampwork afficionados could give me your opinions regarding hard and soft glass, I'd appreciate it. I have read and read, looked at sites, ingested these posts and I now know that there is a huge difference between boro glass and soft glass. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? As with any art, once you have expertise, you can glance at something and say - this, this and this is good, this is bad. A typesetter "ows" at poor kerning, a knitter at dropped stitches. So I don't know what you/y'all are seeing when you show links to various beads that you've stumbled across and everyone oohs and ahs. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. Anyone? Gracias! Live and be well, Christy |
#5
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Thank you, Barbara. I will look into these links. I just stumbled across
this one: http://www.lampworkerslounge.com/index.php, but haven't had the opportunity to delve very deeply. -- "Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer." Washington Post Style Invitational "Barbara Forbes-Lyons" wrote in message ... From my readings, etc., hard glass is harder to work with and I the glass can be more expensive. Plus I think the torch setup is different, too. Look here for prices on Glass Alchemy glass (hard glass) $49 per pound: http://www.artglass1.com/glass-alchemy-w.htm Northstar is a bit cheaper: http://www.artglass1.com/northstar-glass-r.htm Compare to Moretti ($7-8 per pound): http://www.artglass1.com/morettir.htm I know many of the lampworkers will weigh in on this, but wanted to get you started with a few links. -- Barbara www.penguintrax.com eBay: pnguintrax Justbeadsenguintrax 0 /O\ "CLP" wrote in message news:eTR0b.3962$j26.1336@lakeread02... If any lampworkers or lampwork afficionados could give me your opinions regarding hard and soft glass, I'd appreciate it. I have read and read, looked at sites, ingested these posts and I now know that there is a huge difference between boro glass and soft glass. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? As with any art, once you have expertise, you can glance at something and say - this, this and this is good, this is bad. A typesetter "ows" at poor kerning, a knitter at dropped stitches. So I don't know what you/y'all are seeing when you show links to various beads that you've stumbled across and everyone oohs and ahs. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. Anyone? Gracias! Live and be well, Christy |
#6
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Hi Christy,
Lampworkers seem to prefer the cool things they can get boro to do. And I have some and I love it. But my personal preference is for bright clear colors which are more common with pyrex. I don't claim to be typical. Actually, in the same way that I want to work with my favorite colors and combinations because I have a quicker eye for it, I would suggest you simply work in what you like best. I also believe that it's fine for an artist to usually use the same colors. It makes it much easier for me when I'm looking for something in those colors. Tina "CLP" wrote in message news:eTR0b.3962$j26.1336@lakeread02... If any lampworkers or lampwork afficionados could give me your opinions regarding hard and soft glass, I'd appreciate it. I have read and read, looked at sites, ingested these posts and I now know that there is a huge difference between boro glass and soft glass. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? As with any art, once you have expertise, you can glance at something and say - this, this and this is good, this is bad. A typesetter "ows" at poor kerning, a knitter at dropped stitches. So I don't know what you/y'all are seeing when you show links to various beads that you've stumbled across and everyone oohs and ahs. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. Anyone? Gracias! Live and be well, Christy |
#7
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Karen - How did you learn all this? I appreciate the info. I certainly don't
have the ability to go for the more expensive just now, so this is really good to know. Now - let me ask this - What then, is the purpose of going the boro route? Just for the more organic color and time/ease/length of mallability? I am going to get really, really excited now about lining up this class! I so love the "paperweight" type glass, for example that link someone posted to the guy in Hawaii who had the beautiful pendants with butterflies in them... Somehow the clear glass encasing seems to act like a magnifier and intensifies the colors. I thought you could only do that with the hard glass. And i really love the beads of the guy who goes by "antglass" on EBay, and that's boro. But if soft glass can do all that cool stuff and if i have an aptitude, and if and if and if... Ooh i am getting very excited about this! Christy -- "Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer." Washington Post Style Invitational "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:qmS0b.11551$nf3.8147@fed1read07... Hi there! I'm going answer this piece by piece. I've been making beads for over 6 years now, and use both boro and soft glasses about evenly, time and quantity-wise. I know the difference has to do with the amount of heat used, but what I don't know and can't seem to find out is why somebody would hesitate doing the boro beads? Is it more difficult? More expensive? Harder to work with? First, boro is a "harder" glass. It requires a lot more heat to melt and manipulate...heat = oxygen + propane. More fuel = higher cost. And, it helps to have a torch that can put out a larger, hotter flame. Larger torches = larger price tags. So, definitely more expensive. Plus, the glass itself is more expensive. Most Italian and compatible soft glasses (Effetre/Moretti, Lauscha, Murano and Vetrofond) average $12 per pound (some are cheaper some more expensive, but that's pretty close to average). Boro, with the exception of clear, runs $50 on average. The clear is about $8 per pound. So, again, a bunch more expensive, even with a usual clear cores most of the boro beadmakers use for most beads. As a confusing program note, there are other types of "soft" glass which are not compatible with those above. Most notably Bullseye/Spectrum/Uroboros (90-96 COE) and Satake (140 COE, from Japan). Both of these other groups are more expensive than the Italian types, but not as much as boro, and offer different colors. And THAT is another strong difference. For the most part the Italian glasses are clear, bright "crayon" type colors, while boro tends to be more muted and organic. There are exceptions on both sides though. The color differences are often what get various folks' attention, though. And working up those colors with boro often takes more time/effort/experimentation to learn and reproduce consistently. (I'm still very much in the "surprise" stage myself). Because of the higher heat required, unless you have a fairly powerful torch, boro also works more slowly and there are a few techniques in soft glass that you can't do in hard glass, and vice versa. A luxury with hard glass is that you can take your time, build components and let them cool and generally manipulate your glass without constant worries about keeping it all uniformly hot...it's a lot more tolerant to temperature variations. From what I can see, the boro beads have a clear glass covering (pyrex) and the soft glass ones don't? Is that accurate or am I *way* down a wrong road with my thinking? That part is definitely a misunderstanding. Beads of both "flavors" can either be cased with clear (or other colors) or not. It all depends on the effect you're going for. There's no requirement either way. Sometimes I think - "they're ok I guess, but no big deal; I like these others much better." But since the wows are so exhuberant, I figure it must be an insider "knowledge of the art" thang. There are some basic shaping niceties, like not having jagged edges and making sure bumps and stringers are solidly attached, but the rest is pretty subjective IMO. Some folks like pastels, some like organics. Same with shapes and textures. I have customers who ask for bumps or wish I wouldn't do them on a particular design. Some don't have a clue how to handle one of my flutters, others are bored by plain old round beads. Something for everyone. G I want to take this lampwork class (soft glass) but don't have a huge amount of cash to experiment with lots of courses right now. I'm not sure if I should go ahead and this class will give me a base to build on or whether working with boro is a horse of a different color entirely and I should try to find a teacher for that, instead. IMO, go for it! Most of the techniques you'll learn with soft glass will translate well into boro. Plus, I think the learning curve with soft glass, until and unless you start making large beads, is a lot easier. Also, if you're on a tight budget, the initial outlay and expenses will be a lot lower. A good thing until you decide whether this is really for you or not. AND, it's not impossible to make boro beads on a smaller torch. I made my first 100 or so on the same Minor I used to make soft glass beads for several years. It was only after I started getting frustrated by the time I was spending with simple shaping that I decided to move up to a larger torch. Good luck! -- KarenK Desert Dreamer Designs http://members.cox.net/desertdreameraz/ Ebay Sto http://www.stores.ebay.com/desertdreamerdesigns JustBeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
#8
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Um, not sure about that one - as I don't know what raku is.
-- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Thanks, Kandice. I appreciate the input. "the nature of the glass is such that one color can turn many different colors in the heat." Like raku issues, sort of? |
#9
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Karen - How did you learn all this? I appreciate the info. I certainly
don't have the ability to go for the more expensive just now, so this is really good to know. Now - let me ask this - What then, is the purpose of going the boro route? Just for the more organic color and time/ease/length of mallability? First off, you're very welcome! The condensed version of how I was seduced by hot glass is that I always thought it was cool. I used to be a fiber-holic and at a workshop weekend I met Leah Fairbanks, who very kindly talked to me about what she was teaching in her class. I was enthralled. I found a class with Kate Fowle a few months later and that was that! I've since taken a few more classes with Kate, Jim Smircich, Tom Holland and Patricia Sage and spent quality time with Sylvie Lansdowne, who was my "glassmomma-mentor" on AOL when I started to get brave enough to sell. And as you can probably tell I'm a chatterbox. G Occasionally I manage to listen, too. Luckily a lot of other glass junkies are talkers too. As to "why boro?" For me part of it is the challenge. There's something amazing about messing around with the same stuff I cook with (Pyrex is just a brand name for borosilicate glass), but getting to make it pretty. Also, I'm a wannabe painter (but can't draw worth a damn) so this is MY way of messing with colors. Boro just gives you different possibilities...like the difference between working with pastels or watercolors or oils or color pencils. I was never satisfied with anything smaller than the 96 color box of crayons. And the surprise reactions between colors give you even MORE possibilities. The other thing IS the malleability. Round beads are nice but I like texture and motion, too. My flutter beads are a starting point, leading to some of the other bizarre things I've messed with. Unfortunately, with soft glass you end up doing a wild dance when you get away from a more unified shape, trying to keep all the parts and bumps and edges warm. I've watched Sylvie make large mermaids and be almost done, only to have a tailfin *crack* at the wrong moment. (Horrible sound) Boro won't do that. You can do wide, thin pieces, pick 'em up, put 'em down, focus on one area for a much longer time to work on a detail, and it won't break on you. I've done rather large (over 2") flutters for windchimes that took me 50-60 minutes each to make and never lost one. Of course, it also DID take me about an hour and sucked oxygen like crazy. For quick shaping, fun color layers and bright colors, Moretti still can't be beat. Eventually, I don't think it has to be an either/or thing at all, unless you want it to be. I sometimes go back & forth at one sitting, but I can go for days with one or the other, too. It just depends on my mood and what I have in my head. -- KarenK Desert Dreamer Designs http://members.cox.net/desertdreameraz/ Ebay Sto http://www.stores.ebay.com/desertdreamerdesigns JustBeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
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