Safety issues using bulk propylene

Jo
as I recall I didn't run it anywhere near 100 lb - those little tanks
have 100 psi?
never imagined that - of course that is just when it's full - it drops
rapidly.
I haven't used my Hot Head in years - but if recollection is correct -
I believe I regulated out at around 14 -17 b on my regulator
-(depending on what I was working on --
- It was a standard propane 0 - 300 regulator.


Cheryl

Cheryl wrote:

Jo
as I recall I didn't run it anywhere near 100 lb - those little tanks
have 100 psi?

97psi at 70F according to the manufacturer

never imagined that - of course that is just when it's full - it drops
rapidly.
I haven't used my Hot Head in years - but if recollection is correct -
I believe I regulated out at around 14 -17 b on my regulator
-(depending on what I was working on --
- It was a standard propane 0 - 300 regulator.


Cheryl

Thanks, I may get one and try that...I'm probably on the road to a Minor
anyway.

In article .com,
says...
FRan
pardon my disagreement - but I had a HOT HEAD and a bulk MAPP tank...
the torch would NOT STAY LIT or WORK PROPERLY until I obtained a
regulator - then it worked like a dream.

Oh, I'm all for doing what you gotta do to make whatever it is work for
you!! All I'm saying is that the HotHead, and similar single line
torches, were designed for use without a regulator. Not a matter of
agreeing or disagreeing, it's just how these torches are designed and
marketed.

Fran
http://www.deepwoodart.com

In article ,
says...

Oh, then I better put the aquarium air-line stuff away!

Hmm... I'm having trouble reading your tone. I'll just assume the best
and end my portion of this discussion by wishing you good luck. I hope
everything works out to your satisfaction!

Fran
http://www.deepwoodart.com

Deepwood Art wrote:

In article ,
says...


Oh, then I better put the aquarium air-line stuff away!


Hmm... I'm having trouble reading your tone.

Oh shoot, I thought I was being funny!

I'll just assume the best
and end my portion of this discussion by wishing you good luck. I hope
everything works out to your satisfaction!

Me too! Thanks Fran!

Fran
http://www.deepwoodart.com

I honestly think you'd be far better off upgrading to an oxy/propane
torch. The financial outlay is greater initially but it will likely pay
for itself within a year in saved fuel costs. A 5-gallon propane tank
will last over a month of *full-time* use, and only costs about $6 to
fill. The 6-lb MAPP canister would last only a few days of full-time
use, if that.

You don't need an oxygen regulator if you have an oxy con, and you save
the expense of buying the tank, and the hassle and expense of frequent
tank refills.

You can use a cheap "pancake" regulator with the propane instead of a
more expensive gauged regulator; ask for one that will drop the PSI to
between 5-12.

I buy oxygen concentrators cheap from various ebay sellers, and the best
so far has been this guy:

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...reciseconcepts

Your total initial outlay will still be pretty steep, but the savings
will make it well worth it, IMO. And yes, I know one person who has had
a hose rupture on a bulk tank; actually, it wasn't a rupture, but a
fitting failure. The fitting came off the end of the hose, and she had a
highly-pressurised hose whipping around the studio with flame shooting
out the end. She was able to escape injury and get the tank shut off
with minimal damage to her studio.


jo wrote:
I'm a beginner in hot glass after playing around with stained glass -
and yes - I've googled my butt off already!
Hoping some of you can share your knowledge on this. Switching from
MAPP canisters to bulk propylene has been rather discouraging so far
after reading the safety posts at isgb forums.

Since the bulk tanks are at high pressures with no regulators (unlike
propane tanks) and since the torch is mounted to a hose rather than a
tank - The issue seems to be - is the hose reliable at those pressures
since they are basically just Coleman type propane hoses? Ever had a
hose rupture or hear of one doing so?
Flashback to the tank seems highly unlikely given the design of the HH
and pressure of the tank?

Am I missing another issue with the bulk tanks? The tank would remain
outside, just like any other fuel tank.

One more thing, does $22 for refilling a 6 lb. tank sound like a bad
deal? I have only found one place willing to sell me bulk propylene and
it's about 30 miles away. MAPP is 8 bucks a shot for 1 lb. cans. So I
would save about 50% by switching. (But gasoline for a 60 mile trip!)

Clearly, after calculating long term fuel costs, a minor and oxycon
become an enticing deal, but adding in regulators, hoses, and such -
wow. Thanks much! Jo


--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com

Kalera wrote:
snipped a bunch of valid points

Your total initial outlay will still be pretty steep, but the savings
will make it well worth it, IMO.

It does make sense in the long run, I think. But if you've ever done a
project where one thing leads to another, and another...This is that
project for me. I need some dedicated electrical circuits since I've
already got fridge, freezer, and ventilation plugged in. And my
attached garage is currently at 95 degrees and 95% humidity - bad for
sieve beds!

I am getting hooked on the beads, though. Especially since I timed my
trip up north to see family to coincide with the Bead Bazaar at the
Gathering in Kentucky! Amazing stuff, I bought way too much
"inspiration"! It's also more addicting than the stained glass - anyone
got a magic wand to wave over my 3 boxes of Spectrum flat glass?

And yes, I know one person who has had
a hose rupture on a bulk tank; actually, it wasn't a rupture, but a
fitting failure. The fitting came off the end of the hose, and she had a
highly-pressurised hose whipping around the studio with flame shooting
out the end. She was able to escape injury and get the tank shut off
with minimal damage to her studio.

Yikes! Thankfully, the flame didn't burn back into the tank, or ignite
her clothing! That could have been tragic.

Even though a typical barbecue hose is rated at 350psi, the fittings and
the o-rings are the most likely potential failure points. As a diver I
am familiar with those kinds of failures using air tanks and air hoses -
maybe that explains my concerns as I started to think things out.

In any case, I doubt the hose manufacturer would accept liability for
failure in an unintended use of their product. Or one's homeowner's
insurance. Makes a strong case for routine inspection of fire
extinguishers, fuel hoses and o-rings. It's easy to get complacent when
one is routinely working with familiar equipment.

Appreciated hearing your thoughts on the matter, thanks!
jo

I do indeed understand a project where one thing leads to another... my
entire life is a series of them.

jo wrote:


Kalera wrote:
snipped a bunch of valid points


Your total initial outlay will still be pretty steep, but the savings
will make it well worth it, IMO.


It does make sense in the long run, I think. But if you've ever done a
project where one thing leads to another, and another...This is that
project for me. I need some dedicated electrical circuits since I've
already got fridge, freezer, and ventilation plugged in. And my
attached garage is currently at 95 degrees and 95% humidity - bad for
sieve beds!

I am getting hooked on the beads, though. Especially since I timed my
trip up north to see family to coincide with the Bead Bazaar at the
Gathering in Kentucky! Amazing stuff, I bought way too much
"inspiration"! It's also more addicting than the stained glass - anyone
got a magic wand to wave over my 3 boxes of Spectrum flat glass?

And yes, I know one person who has had a hose rupture on a bulk tank;
actually, it wasn't a rupture, but a fitting failure. The fitting came
off the end of the hose, and she had a highly-pressurised hose
whipping around the studio with flame shooting out the end. She was
able to escape injury and get the tank shut off with minimal damage to
her studio.


Yikes! Thankfully, the flame didn't burn back into the tank, or ignite
her clothing! That could have been tragic.

Even though a typical barbecue hose is rated at 350psi, the fittings and
the o-rings are the most likely potential failure points. As a diver I
am familiar with those kinds of failures using air tanks and air hoses -
maybe that explains my concerns as I started to think things out.

In any case, I doubt the hose manufacturer would accept liability for
failure in an unintended use of their product. Or one's homeowner's
insurance. Makes a strong case for routine inspection of fire
extinguishers, fuel hoses and o-rings. It's easy to get complacent when
one is routinely working with familiar equipment.

Appreciated hearing your thoughts on the matter, thanks!
jo




--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com