Questions on Ingredients

Well just posting has gotten me to the point of ordering ingredients. Now
I'm stuck on which ones. Can anyone tell my why one over the other? Is
the more expensive necessarily the better buy (or visa versa)?

whiting Snocal 40
whiting Vicron 2511

Wollastonite W10 200M
Wollastonite W20 352M

Rutile Light Ceramic
Rutile Dark Milled
Rutile Grandular

Neph Syn 270M Minex3
Neph Syn 400M Minex4

Potash Custer
Potash G-200

Bentonite Western 200M
Bentonite Western 325M
Bentonite B
Betonite 149

*Flint SIL-CO-SIL 75 (200M)
Flint SIL-CO-SIL 52 (325M)
Flint SIL-CO-SIL 40 (400M)


* is this what I'm to use for Silica in the MC6G book?

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:21:07 GMT, "dkat" wrote:

Well just posting has gotten me to the point of ordering ingredients. Now
I'm stuck on which ones. Can anyone tell my why one over the other? Is
the more expensive necessarily the better buy (or visa versa)?

whiting Snocal 40
whiting Vicron 2511

Wollastonite W10 200M
Wollastonite W20 352M

Rutile Light Ceramic
Rutile Dark Milled
Rutile Grandular

Neph Syn 270M Minex3
Neph Syn 400M Minex4

Potash Custer
Potash G-200

Bentonite Western 200M
Bentonite Western 325M
Bentonite B
Betonite 149

*Flint SIL-CO-SIL 75 (200M)
Flint SIL-CO-SIL 52 (325M)
Flint SIL-CO-SIL 40 (400M)


* is this what I'm to use for Silica in the MC6G book?


First, flint is indeed the form of silica most folks use.
Higher mesh numbers (xxxM) indicate finer powders;
they have been passed through a mesh with that
many threads or wires per inch. Finer powders make
glazes that will melt together faster, but I don't really
have any experience comparing differences betweeen
(say) 325M and 400M... I'd guess this would make no
difference to most uses. I tend to mentally divide things
into "coarse" and "fine" at around 100M, and wouldn't
hesitate to use anything over 200M in a glaze. Prices
may differ, so I'd go with what gets the job done most
economically.

And you might want to get some Gillespie Borate (or
some other GB substitute) for those times when you
need to get a low-temperature melt and low expansion.
There are lots of recipes that call for this (or an "equivalent"
frit), so I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

Just my $0.02 worth...



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

"dkat" wrote in message
...
Well just posting has gotten me to the point of ordering ingredients. Now
I'm stuck on which ones. Can anyone tell my why one over the other? Is
the more expensive necessarily the better buy (or visa versa)?

whiting Snocal 40
whiting Vicron 2511

Wollastonite W10 200M
Wollastonite W20 352M

Rutile Light Ceramic
Rutile Dark Milled
Rutile Grandular

Neph Syn 270M Minex3
Neph Syn 400M Minex4

Potash Custer
Potash G-200

Bentonite Western 200M
Bentonite Western 325M
Bentonite B
Betonite 149

*Flint SIL-CO-SIL 75 (200M)
Flint SIL-CO-SIL 52 (325M)
Flint SIL-CO-SIL 40 (400M)


* is this what I'm to use for Silica in the MC6G book?


Dkat:
Bob has already replied on mesh sizes, so I would add that you will get
different results from the light rutile, and the rutile granular. You
should have both. If a "recipe" doesn't specify, use the light rutile. As
far as the feldspars, Custer and G-200. Again, you should have both, and
some K4 as well, since different glazes call for different types of 'spar.

Personally, I always go with the finest grain I can get. Easier to mix,
stays in suspension better. If the price is not that different, that is,
since I can always grind it down finer myself and re-sieve it.

Best,

Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

Thank you. I was going to get 3195 and 3134 Frits - will those do? And
which is the Rutile you would use for glazes?

This is my current list that I'm trying to whittle it down if you care -

G200 Feldspar 12
Custer Feldspar 15
Ferro Frit 3134 50
Ferro Frit 3195 62
Wollastonite 12
Whiting 12
Nepheline Syenite12
OM-4 Ball Clay
EPK 12
Silica
Talc 9
Spanish Red Iron Oxide 30

Rutile
Green Chrome Ox
Tin Oxide
Titanium Dioxide




"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:21:07 GMT, "dkat" wrote:
First, flint is indeed the form of silica most folks use.
Higher mesh numbers (xxxM) indicate finer powders;
they have been passed through a mesh with that
many threads or wires per inch. Finer powders make
glazes that will melt together faster, but I don't really
have any experience comparing differences betweeen
(say) 325M and 400M... I'd guess this would make no
difference to most uses. I tend to mentally divide things
into "coarse" and "fine" at around 100M, and wouldn't
hesitate to use anything over 200M in a glaze. Prices
may differ, so I'd go with what gets the job done most
economically.

And you might want to get some Gillespie Borate (or
some other GB substitute) for those times when you
need to get a low-temperature melt and low expansion.
There are lots of recipes that call for this (or an "equivalent"
frit), so I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

Just my $0.02 worth...



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

Thank you - scratch the rutile question just posted.... Beginning to feel a
bit more confident (I was fearless until I had kids....)

"wayneinkeywest" wrote in message
...



Dkat:
Bob has already replied on mesh sizes, so I would add that you will get
different results from the light rutile, and the rutile granular. You
should have both. If a "recipe" doesn't specify, use the light rutile.
As
far as the feldspars, Custer and G-200. Again, you should have both, and
some K4 as well, since different glazes call for different types of 'spar.

Personally, I always go with the finest grain I can get. Easier to mix,
stays in suspension better. If the price is not that different, that is,
since I can always grind it down finer myself and re-sieve it.

Best,

Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

Thank you - scratch the rutile question just posted.... Beginning to feel
a
bit more confident (I was fearless until I had kids....)
--

Think of glaze making as a cake recipe. Either it works, rises fabulously,
and your guests (peers and customers) all "Oooh" and "Aaaahhh" over it,
-
-
or it falls flat and the dog gets it WG

(I'm still feeding the dog, who is now too fat to walk :)
Have fun!
Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

I tend you use ceramic grade rutile which is darker than light rutile and use
that unless light is specified.
As far as the whiting goes, aske your supplier what the difference is. I know
with some wollastonites for instance, there is a bit of iron, so you might want
to find whichever whiting or wollastonite is purer.
Although Custer and G200 can usually be used interchangeable, Custer has a bit
more silica which can help prevent crazing if your recipe is on the border as
far of expansion is concerned.
If you know how to reformulate a recipe, with or without software, it's easy
enough to reformulate it for a different spar; but in most cases, either one
would have a good chance of working.
The frits aren't interchangeable really, because although thy all have boron,
the other ingredients vary. 3195 has more alumina in it for instance and I use
that if I want a high alumina recipe and don't want too much clay in the
recipe. You get a bit more boron for the money in 3195 which is why I often use
it, but I make sure it fits in on a molecular level with my recipe.

If you're working at cone 6 I would not advise getting your list of materials
too small.

You can do without wollastonite and reformulate the recipe for silica and
whiting which is what wollastonite is composed of; but you'll have to back
engineer the recipe.

For cone 6, minimum materials list, I would advise

Frit 3134
Neph sy
F4 soda spar
Custer
epk
OM4 ball clay
whiting
talc
dolomite
silica - 200 mesh
spodumene
zinc oxide
bentonite
Zircopax or Superpax
Tin Oxide
and your basic coloring oxides

With these ingredients you can formulate alkaline glazes, calcium or alumina
matts, etc. These are also the ingredients you would most commonly find in cone
6 recipes.

If you want to extend the list, you can also get some of these to play around
with:
wollastnite

barium carbonate
strontium carbonate
Lithium carbonate
Gillespie Borate or Boraq (Gerstley substitutes)
Volcanic ash
Frit 3124
Frit 3195

Regards,
June
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/shambhalapottery/

have had our dog on a diet after they made fun of her at the vets. She
is much thinner, more active and BOY does she ADORE me when I'm in the
kitchen!


"wayneinkeywest" wrote in message
. ..



Thank you - scratch the rutile question just posted.... Beginning to
feel
a
bit more confident (I was fearless until I had kids....)
--

Think of glaze making as a cake recipe. Either it works, rises
fabulously,
and your guests (peers and customers) all "Oooh" and "Aaaahhh" over it,
-
-
or it falls flat and the dog gets it WG

(I'm still feeding the dog, who is now too fat to walk :)
Have fun!
Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

Thank you. I will attempt to keep all of this in mind. Given that I am
working out of half of my basement I really am limited both in space and
time. I would like to find 2 basic base glazes (glossy and matt) that I can
create at most 6 glazes from. I know what glaze look I like. Also I am old
enough and have been with my toes in the water long enough that I doubt I
will change (that is after almost 3 decades I find that I always gravitate
to the same 3 or 4 glazes).

Gold-cream breaking rust (matt or glossy breaking matt)
Glossy Sea green (breaking rust on an iron body and not on a white body);
Randy's Red (without the GB)
Glossy Opal blue

If I had any ability to paint, I would want a matt white....

"ShantiP1" wrote in message
...
I tend you use ceramic grade rutile which is darker than light rutile and
use
that unless light is specified.
As far as the whiting goes, aske your supplier what the difference is. I
know
with some wollastonites for instance, there is a bit of iron, so you might
want
to find whichever whiting or wollastonite is purer.
Although Custer and G200 can usually be used interchangeable, Custer has a
bit
more silica which can help prevent crazing if your recipe is on the border
as
far of expansion is concerned.
If you know how to reformulate a recipe, with or without software, it's
easy
enough to reformulate it for a different spar; but in most cases, either
one
would have a good chance of working.
The frits aren't interchangeable really, because although thy all have
boron,
the other ingredients vary. 3195 has more alumina in it for instance and I
use
that if I want a high alumina recipe and don't want too much clay in the
recipe. You get a bit more boron for the money in 3195 which is why I
often use
it, but I make sure it fits in on a molecular level with my recipe.

If you're working at cone 6 I would not advise getting your list of
materials
too small.

You can do without wollastonite and reformulate the recipe for silica and
whiting which is what wollastonite is composed of; but you'll have to back
engineer the recipe.

For cone 6, minimum materials list, I would advise

Frit 3134
Neph sy
F4 soda spar
Custer
epk
OM4 ball clay
whiting
talc
dolomite
silica - 200 mesh
spodumene
zinc oxide
bentonite
Zircopax or Superpax
Tin Oxide
and your basic coloring oxides

With these ingredients you can formulate alkaline glazes, calcium or
alumina
matts, etc. These are also the ingredients you would most commonly find in
cone
6 recipes.

If you want to extend the list, you can also get some of these to play
around
with:
wollastnite

barium carbonate
strontium carbonate
Lithium carbonate
Gillespie Borate or Boraq (Gerstley substitutes)
Volcanic ash
Frit 3124
Frit 3195

Regards,
June
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/shambhalapottery/

To add a little to June's excellent advice. When you have settled on the
core selection of glazes that you like be as consistent as you can over
the materials you use, don't go for different stuff because it is
cheaper or your glazes could change for the worse.

Steve
Bath
UK


In article , ShantiP1
writes
I tend you use ceramic grade rutile which is darker than light rutile and use
that unless light is specified.
As far as the whiting goes, aske your supplier what the difference is. I know
with some wollastonites for instance, there is a bit of iron, so you might want
to find whichever whiting or wollastonite is purer.
Although Custer and G200 can usually be used interchangeable, Custer has a bit
more silica which can help prevent crazing if your recipe is on the border as
far of expansion is concerned.
If you know how to reformulate a recipe, with or without software, it's easy
enough to reformulate it for a different spar; but in most cases, either one
would have a good chance of working.
The frits aren't interchangeable really, because although thy all have boron,
the other ingredients vary. 3195 has more alumina in it for instance and I use
that if I want a high alumina recipe and don't want too much clay in the
recipe. You get a bit more boron for the money in 3195 which is why I often use
it, but I make sure it fits in on a molecular level with my recipe.

If you're working at cone 6 I would not advise getting your list of materials
too small.

You can do without wollastonite and reformulate the recipe for silica and
whiting which is what wollastonite is composed of; but you'll have to back
engineer the recipe.

For cone 6, minimum materials list, I would advise

Frit 3134
Neph sy
F4 soda spar
Custer
epk
OM4 ball clay
whiting
talc
dolomite
silica - 200 mesh
spodumene
zinc oxide
bentonite
Zircopax or Superpax
Tin Oxide
and your basic coloring oxides

With these ingredients you can formulate alkaline glazes, calcium or alumina
matts, etc. These are also the ingredients you would most commonly find in cone
6 recipes.

If you want to extend the list, you can also get some of these to play around
with:
wollastnite

barium carbonate
strontium carbonate
Lithium carbonate
Gillespie Borate or Boraq (Gerstley substitutes)
Volcanic ash
Frit 3124
Frit 3195

Regards,
June
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/shambhalapottery/




--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK