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#31
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Of course not. But the fact is, that lampwork art beads are selling better
than lampwork art jewelry right now, so costs are higher and sales lower for the jewelry designer than the lampwork artist, in general. There are more jewelry designers than lampwork artists, especially on ebay. It's supply and demand. A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina |
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#32
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Actually, she sells a LOT.
-- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker. http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging $250 for wholesale. I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this. Tina ROFL - Get their prices!! I wonder if they sell any.. It surely makes your point... Mavis :-)) |
#33
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I totally agree. For me, ebay is still the second best venue with my
website being the best. Except maybe for a local show. Other shows - I have to factor in travel costs and such, which can be substantial, depending on location. Galleries/bead stores want wholesale or consignment. Ebay/PayPal/Credit Card fees come up to about 20% of my prices, generally speaking, and shipping is really inexpensive. So far, I have gotten really decent prices on ebay. My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out to be very good. Why? When others say the market sucks and sales are down? Because I work really freaking hard, and I do my homework. I don't undervalue my work. I work with the market to get the best prices I can while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly can. Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and listen to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this is an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much effort. Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone whacks me with a tomato!! -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you do make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a beadmaker that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work, so she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but for some people ebay is what works. One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective. I've gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for some beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc. I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still working on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are doing it. Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white - raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world. Kathy K "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... ***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
#34
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"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out to be very good. This is great!!! When people work at it, then it can be a great system for them. I don't undervalue my work. This was one of the points I was trying to make. I work with the market to get the best prices I can while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly can. YEAH!!!!! Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and listen to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this is an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much effort. I understand that. But also, some people don't know how to start, or how to find out the information. Sometimes it's "laziness" (i.e. let eBay sell the item for me. If I put it on there, it should automatically sell with 5million bids). I think part of this is not just "let's set prices" but the education, also. It's not just support of "aww, poor baby, you aren't getting your prices, but you need to raise them". But support should also be sharing of hints and help. But not specifically "Here's the formula for selling your items and making a million like I do". I agree with most people when someone comes on here, and says "how do I sell, and where?". There should be some research, and also, each area is different. But guiding, and hinting is good. And there *are* "here's the formula" sites out there! :-) Well, there's my 2 cents +. Kandice, don't think you are ranting. You are giving an opinion. If we can work together, this is great! As I posted over there, it's not so much a thing of price fixing/etc, but we need to come up with a way to work together, and to value our work. No matter what level! Mary Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone whacks me with a tomato!! -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you do make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a beadmaker that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work, so she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but for some people ebay is what works. One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective. I've gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for some beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc. I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still working on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are doing it. Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white - raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world. Kathy K "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... ***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
#35
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This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers
buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit. I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears (eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads more from the perspective of their being art glass. I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL! My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want... the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and collectors. Tink On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber" wrote: A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well. |
#36
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:10:16 GMT, Tinkster wrote:
This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit. I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears (eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads more from the perspective of their being art glass. I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL! My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want... the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and collectors. Tink On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber" wrote: A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well. Thank you Tink.... Now I do not feel guilty one bit about all the lovely items I have just sitting here looking beautiful! I didn't want to make them into jewelry or sell them and now I know it's ok for me to just look at them and enjoy them. ) I am very happy now and my stress level went WAY down! Harry My Ebay Auctions are at http://snipurl.com/3okw |
#37
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They felt that my wholesale prices were too high, so they couldn't sell them
retail after their markup. I sell the same beads, with my retail markup (double my wholesale price) with no problems at other shows. I wasn't going to give them an accounting lesson. One less store with my beads in it isn't the end of the world. KarenK "KDK" wrote in message ... Did they think your wholesale price was too high? or were they upset because you were selling items less than they were? Kathy K "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04... "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
#38
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Thanks Tina! I've worked hard to get my math right and price my beads
reasonably. I'm earning what I need, never losing money, AND taking into account all of my costs in the process. More is always great, of course, but I'm very content with my steady sales. KarenK "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076481429.873981@prawn... Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal too. Tina "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04... "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
#39
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One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.
If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. This is what I was thinking. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
#40
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Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale
being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal too. What she said. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
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