Needles loved and needles hated

We have found Cast iron items From Biblical times ,,,, Iron Age from
about 750 B.C if i remember correctly take or give a year or 50 ,,,
mirjam

They could cast iron or steel in the 1550s.

And much earlier :-)

(Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote in
:

When i learned to knit , on both cast iron and first
Aluminium needles i was taught to `Always sharpen your
needles on the stone floors we have.
This habit is so known that some ladies went on doing it
with the more Contemporary needles whatever they are made
of .

i use a pencil sharpener on my wood needles...

i did return a set of bamboo circulars, US 13s, because i
couldn't use them on a lace weight shawl yarn. they were just
way to blunt & i didn't feel that bamboo would do well in the
pencil sharpener. i traded them for birch & those are working
just fine (so far) without sharpening.
i keep a pencil sharpener & a craft sanding pad (like an
emery board, but bigger, softer (foam center) & more suitable
grit sizes) in my knitting basket(s).
lee

"Aaron Lewis" wrote in message
t...

."Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Aaron Lewis" wrote in message
et...
The cast tools that I had were bought long ago, and very cheaply.

But what were they?
a bunch of little pliers, wrenches and a claw hammer.


They could cast iron or steel in the 1550s.

And much earlier :-)
China in the 6th century BC, and Europe in the 12th century, but practical
availability in Europe was mid-16th century


The Victorians had mastered the technology. Look at an 1880's Singer
sewing machine.

Yes, but only the body was cast, it didn't undergo any stress.

No, look at the treadle and the iron frame that forms the legs. You can
see mold marks. You can see where the sprues were cut, and ground off.
Many of the parts inside the case were cast and machined. Because of the
potential for defects in the cast metal, those parts were massive for the
trivial forces that they were expected to sustain. The result is that
they last forever. A modern designer, using modern quality controlled
steel would use only a tenth as much metal for those stresses.

The process for cold drawn steel is complicated. While cold rolling was
known as early as 1747, and had became an industry in Germany by the
1830s, I think that the first cold drawn steel in a US machine shop did
not occur until after 1885. That shop later became a centerpiece of the
Carnegie steel empire.

Drawing wire is also much older than that.

Only for softer metals such as gold, silver, copper, zinc, lead, and their
alloys. Not for iron and steel. *Round* steel "wire" is modern luxury.
Better, cheaper, bicycle spokes, the steel rods that reinforced theWright
Brothers airplanes, and round nails, all flowed from this modern luxury.

Cold drawing iron or steel wire requires a very finely graduated draw
plate or else the wire work-hardens so much that the wire breaks under the
tension of the drawing process as it passes thru the drawplate. Annealing
the wire between draws produces scale that can cause problems in the next
pass through the drawplate. Therefore, the rate of draw is adjusted so
that the heat generated by the deformation of the metal softens and
anneals the iron enough that it can be pulled through the drawplate
without breaking. Finally, the drawplates tend to crack. It is a very
clever process that requires a rather nice bit of engineering. I have
cast iron and steel. (I know that it is possible to cast a small amounts
of iron at a time because I have done it!) I have forged and tempered
good steel tools. I have drawn commercial quantities of silver and gold
wire. However, I was never able to draw iron or steel wire. I tried. All
I got was a sore rump. (Why did I try? Some "know-it-all" visiting
professor told me that I would not be able to do it!)

I've been thinking about your mention of shattered dropped 'cast'
needles. They might have become brittle due to work hardening.

Cast steel and cast iron tend to be quite brittle. Forging, rolling, and
drawing cast iron/steel reduces the size of the iron crystals and thereby
reduces its brittleness. That is why blanks for high strength parts are
cast; and, then the parts forged from the cast blanks. And, why very
cheap items are simply cast, without the expensive follow-on processing to
reduce brittleness.

Fine and superfine lace needles must have been forged. And gansey
needles, with their spring action must have been forged. But, why were
needle makers bragging about their needles being cast? consistency?
stiffness? tradition? roundness? texture? What virtues were those
knitters seeking in their needles ?

Originally I thought that the bent gansey needles shown in Mary Wright
were the result of forged steel needles that had lost their temper. Now,
I understand than even my spring steel needles pick up those distinctive
bends in a few hundred hours of use. With cheaply available cold drawn
steel rod at the local hardware store, it is cheaper to just make new
ones, than to try to reforge and retemper my old needles. I love modern
steel rod.

And, I can use my old knitting needles to toast marshmallows.

Aaron

Mary

There are so many details wrong with what you say that there's no point in
continuing this or it will be seen as an argument. And you still haven't
explained how casting needles could be done :-)

Mary

If you do not want to use them, give them a mist of WD-40 and keep them very
dry. For things like that I have little packets of desiccant (drier) that I
get at camera shops. The desiccant gets redried every few months and really
stops any sort of moisture problems.

Aaron

"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 26, 10:53 am, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
If I had old nickel plated needles, where the nickel had worn through and
the steel rusted, I would spray them with WD-40, put them aside, and make
a
new set of needles from steel rod from the hardware store. Over all, I
would say that just making a new set of needles from steel rod is easier
than dealing with the plating issue. I think that you are going to have
ongoing corrosion, with little, sharp flakes of nickel peeling up from
the
steel. Those little flakes of plating catch the yarn. . . . Sorry!

I noticed no nickel plating coming off but I dare say once I attack
the rust I may notice something. I don't really want to use them - I
prefer lighter needles. I bought them because of their vintage nature
(I'm sure you've noticed my attraction to vintage knitting things),
but I don't want them to sit with rust on them either.

Ta,
VP

P.S. Thank you Mary for your advice too.

Rubbing the tips on a stone floor will at least keep the tips from being
slippery G

All you folks trying to knit lace from those super-slippery synthetic yarns
might remember that. LOL

Aaron

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
When i learned to knit , on both cast iron and first Aluminium needles
i was taught to `Always sharpen your needles on the stone floors we
have.
This habit is so known that some ladies went on doing it with the more
Contemporary needles whatever they are made of .
mirjam

Remember, the knitters of old routinely reshaped their knitting points on
whet stones or even roofing slates.

I never touch synthetic yarns ,,, mirjam
s" wrote:

Rubbing the tips on a stone floor will at least keep the tips from being
slippery G

All you folks trying to knit lace from those super-slippery synthetic yarns
might remember that. LOL

Aaron

In article .com,
Vintage Purls wrote:
On Jul 26, 10:53 am, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
If I had old nickel plated needles, where the nickel had worn through and
the steel rusted, I would spray them with WD-40, put them aside, and make a
new set of needles from steel rod from the hardware store. Over all, I
would say that just making a new set of needles from steel rod is easier
than dealing with the plating issue. I think that you are going to have
ongoing corrosion, with little, sharp flakes of nickel peeling up from the
steel. Those little flakes of plating catch the yarn. . . . Sorry!

I noticed no nickel plating coming off but I dare say once I attack
the rust I may notice something. I don't really want to use them - I
prefer lighter needles. I bought them because of their vintage nature
(I'm sure you've noticed my attraction to vintage knitting things),
but I don't want them to sit with rust on them either.

Belatedly... Rust will continue even when it seems dry. The WD-40 will
help a little. You may also use one of the commercial rust removers
such as Naval Jelly and then clean the chemcial and rust off,
dry the needles, and then spray them with WD-40 spray.

My usual method is to use fine sandpaper or emery paper, but I'm
not trying to preserve the antique value or vintage character,
I just want to knit with them.

=Tamar

Thanks Tamar.

On Aug 8, 7:40 pm, (Richard Eney) wrote:
Belatedly... Rust will continue even when it seems dry. The WD-40 will
help a little. You may also use one of the commercial rust removers
such as Naval Jelly and then clean the chemcial and rust off,
dry the needles, and then spray them with WD-40 spray.