Question on glazing

I am new to this forum and to earth clay and kilns. I have made some small
masks about 1 1/2" x 1 3/4" and have bisqued fired them. They turned out
really good with no cracks, etc. I am wanting to glaze them on both sides.
They have two tubes on the back sides so a cord can be used for hanging them
or making a necklace. I want an all over glaze on front and back. I know I
cannot dip them as the glaze could fill the holes.

My question is---What is the best way to go about getting a glaze on the
front and back without the glaze sticking to the triangles in the final
firing? I have some small triangles that are about 1/4" high that I
purchased from Amaco. Do I coat the triangles in kiln wash? Will this
help? Am I expecting to be able to do something that might not be possible?
I will need to fire to 1915F. These little triangles are rated for up to
cone 10.

I appreciate any help that you can offer. If you need a photo to visualize
what I am asking, just let me know. Thanks!
Jeanne Rhea
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=vintagenet2

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:30:38 -0500, "Jeanne Rhea"
wrote:

I am new to this forum and to earth clay and kilns. I have made some small
masks about 1 1/2" x 1 3/4" and have bisqued fired them. They turned out
really good with no cracks, etc. I am wanting to glaze them on both sides.
They have two tubes on the back sides so a cord can be used for hanging them
or making a necklace. I want an all over glaze on front and back. I know I
cannot dip them as the glaze could fill the holes.

You can always plug the holes temporarily (with wet clay, etc) while
you dip, then remove the plugs after the glaze is dry. Or just dip
away and let the glaze fill the holes, then clean it out later with a
pipe-cleaner or wire.

My question is---What is the best way to go about getting a glaze on the
front and back without the glaze sticking to the triangles in the final
firing? I have some small triangles that are about 1/4" high that I
purchased from Amaco. Do I coat the triangles in kiln wash? Will this
help? Am I expecting to be able to do something that might not be possible?
I will need to fire to 1915F. These little triangles are rated for up to
cone 10.

I haven't used the triangles you mention, so I can't address those
specifically. But here are some general ideas: First, if the backs
are not really intended to be conspicuous and you only want to
glaze them to seal them, you can put a much lighter coating of
glaze on the back than the decorative glaze on the front. This
will most likely mean everything is brushed on at first, but if
you go into production there are other approaches possible,
such as a light dip, masking the back, and a second dip for
the front.

Having less glaze on the back will mean much less dripping
or running onto the supports during firing. After a few trials, you
should be able to get good sealing coverage with no running at all.

I suspect the kiln wash idea will be helpful with the triangles,
but whatever you use you may have to accept a blemish where
it touches, or else be prepared to do a little touch-up grinding.
You can probably do that with a hand-held stone, no power
tools needed.

But if you have glaze-free hanging holes on these masks
already, the simplest approach might be to fire them while
hanging on high-temperature wire, as is done with beads.
You can make your own support for the wires, or string it
between kiln posts or something. Keep in mind that the
wire will lose stiffness when it is hot, so keep the unsupported
length as short as feasible until you get a feel for this.
You don't want the weight of the masks to sag the wire
such that the masks touch the bottom or fall off.

For heavy-ish things (these sound heavier than typical
beads) I have had good luck with bundles of wire for
added stiffness. I usually coat the wire with kiln wash,
which helps if some glaze sneaks around the edges and
onto the wire. I find the kiln wash goes on easier if the
wires are warm, so I put them in the kitchen oven first.

Hope this helps!




Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

Thanks, Bob.

All of this information helped. I made the holes in the masks small so I
don't think that I have wire that would work well in the kiln and not
stretch too much with the heat so I will not try that idea.

I will try a few different things you suggested and see which works the
best. I am going to put one thin layer of glaze all over with a paint brush
and then two more layers on the top and back, but not on the areas that
touch the shelves or triangles. They are curved and just the two sides will
touch the shelf. I will also try the triangles with glaze and without glaze
on the back edges and see how it works. I have coated some kiln shelves
that are for tiles with many layers of kiln wash so I will also try to see
how they work.

One other question. I have some of the kiln paper that I purchased before
really knowing what I planned to do with the kiln. I am not certain what
brand or even what it is made of, but got it at a stained glass shop. I
have checked online and most kiln paper can be heated to 1600F, but I will
be heating to a higher temperature. If I used it, would it just burn up?
Fumes? Would the fibers be released to float all around and maybe land on my
pieces? I'll resist my urge to test this until I hear what you think.

Thank you and I will let you know how well this turns out!
Jeanne
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=vintagenet2
"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:30:38 -0500, "Jeanne Rhea"
wrote:

I am new to this forum and to earth clay and kilns. I have made some
small
masks about 1 1/2" x 1 3/4" and have bisqued fired them. They turned out
really good with no cracks, etc. I am wanting to glaze them on both
sides.
They have two tubes on the back sides so a cord can be used for hanging
them
or making a necklace. I want an all over glaze on front and back. I know
I
cannot dip them as the glaze could fill the holes.

You can always plug the holes temporarily (with wet clay, etc) while
you dip, then remove the plugs after the glaze is dry. Or just dip
away and let the glaze fill the holes, then clean it out later with a
pipe-cleaner or wire.

My question is---What is the best way to go about getting a glaze on the
front and back without the glaze sticking to the triangles in the final
firing? I have some small triangles that are about 1/4" high that I
purchased from Amaco. Do I coat the triangles in kiln wash? Will this
help? Am I expecting to be able to do something that might not be
possible?
I will need to fire to 1915F. These little triangles are rated for up to
cone 10.

I haven't used the triangles you mention, so I can't address those
specifically. But here are some general ideas: First, if the backs
are not really intended to be conspicuous and you only want to
glaze them to seal them, you can put a much lighter coating of
glaze on the back than the decorative glaze on the front. This
will most likely mean everything is brushed on at first, but if
you go into production there are other approaches possible,
such as a light dip, masking the back, and a second dip for
the front.

Having less glaze on the back will mean much less dripping
or running onto the supports during firing. After a few trials, you
should be able to get good sealing coverage with no running at all.

I suspect the kiln wash idea will be helpful with the triangles,
but whatever you use you may have to accept a blemish where
it touches, or else be prepared to do a little touch-up grinding.
You can probably do that with a hand-held stone, no power
tools needed.

But if you have glaze-free hanging holes on these masks
already, the simplest approach might be to fire them while
hanging on high-temperature wire, as is done with beads.
You can make your own support for the wires, or string it
between kiln posts or something. Keep in mind that the
wire will lose stiffness when it is hot, so keep the unsupported
length as short as feasible until you get a feel for this.
You don't want the weight of the masks to sag the wire
such that the masks touch the bottom or fall off.

For heavy-ish things (these sound heavier than typical
beads) I have had good luck with bundles of wire for
added stiffness. I usually coat the wire with kiln wash,
which helps if some glaze sneaks around the edges and
onto the wire. I find the kiln wash goes on easier if the
wires are warm, so I put them in the kitchen oven first.

Hope this helps!




Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

Jeanne Rhea wrote:
Thanks, Bob.
snip
One other question. I have some of the kiln paper that I purchased before
really knowing what I planned to do with the kiln. I am not certain what
brand or even what it is made of, but got it at a stained glass shop. I
have checked online and most kiln paper can be heated to 1600F, but I will
be heating to a higher temperature. If I used it, would it just burn up?
Fumes? Would the fibers be released to float all around and maybe land on my
pieces? I'll resist my urge to test this until I hear what you think.

fiber paper that you got is usually used for creating a smooth
shelfside surface on glass items. it is used instead of kilnwash. it is
really a ceramic product (dust or fibers) with a carrier, usually some
sugar based product. you can use it for pottery. depending upon it's
type, it will either continue to be a fiber product, or dust, after
firing. the dust kind of paper should be vacuumed up with a hepa
filter, as it's very bad to breathe. the paper residue is also very bad
to breathe in, as the fibers turn into asbestos type fibers after
firing. if possible, wet the residue down before moving it. dispose of
the residue somewhere that when dried, it won't get blown around.

you should also vent your kiln by leaving a plug out until you get
above 1000F when using any fiber paper product, as the binder burning
off may redeposit on wares. it is a cause of fogging on the glass
surface when used in that manner, but i don't know if it does cause
that on ceramics.

if you look into the kiln when it's firing, it will turn black, then
back to white. the black is the sugar carbonizing.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

Thanks for this idea on the steel sheet. I need to find a source for wire
that is considered high temperature wire. I do have some bead wire and
supports for the kiln, but it is too thick for my taste.
I can see I have so much to learn. Thanks!
Jeanne Rhea
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=vintagenet2

Charlie,
Thanks for all the advice and info on the kiln paper. I think since I have
already put on several layers of kiln wash on my shelves, I will test this
first and see how it works and save the kiln paper for glass fusing.
Jeanne Rhea
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Transferring Images to Polymer Clay Tutorial
http://www.heartofclay.com/page35
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=vintagenet2
"charlie" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeanne Rhea wrote:
Thanks, Bob.
snip
One other question. I have some of the kiln paper that I purchased
before
really knowing what I planned to do with the kiln. I am not certain what
brand or even what it is made of, but got it at a stained glass shop. I
have checked online and most kiln paper can be heated to 1600F, but I
will
be heating to a higher temperature. If I used it, would it just burn up?
Fumes? Would the fibers be released to float all around and maybe land on
my
pieces? I'll resist my urge to test this until I hear what you think.

fiber paper that you got is usually used for creating a smooth
shelfside surface on glass items. it is used instead of kilnwash. it is
really a ceramic product (dust or fibers) with a carrier, usually some
sugar based product. you can use it for pottery. depending upon it's
type, it will either continue to be a fiber product, or dust, after
firing. the dust kind of paper should be vacuumed up with a hepa
filter, as it's very bad to breathe. the paper residue is also very bad
to breathe in, as the fibers turn into asbestos type fibers after
firing. if possible, wet the residue down before moving it. dispose of
the residue somewhere that when dried, it won't get blown around.

you should also vent your kiln by leaving a plug out until you get
above 1000F when using any fiber paper product, as the binder burning
off may redeposit on wares. it is a cause of fogging on the glass
surface when used in that manner, but i don't know if it does cause
that on ceramics.

if you look into the kiln when it's firing, it will turn black, then
back to white. the black is the sugar carbonizing.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:58:51 -0500, "Jeanne Rhea"
wrote:

Thanks for this idea on the steel sheet. I need to find a source for wire
that is considered high temperature wire. I do have some bead wire and
supports for the kiln, but it is too thick for my taste.
I can see I have so much to learn. Thanks!
Jeanne Rhea

You can use even pretty thin bead wire to make
stilts, by just sticking it vertically into a clay pad but keeping
the exposed wire short (say, 1/4 inch or less). If you are
trying to support the concave backside of your masks,
you may want to build a little form just for this purpose.
It would look like a cast of the mask backside, with the
short support wires protruding vertically. Note that I
really do mean vertically, not perpendicular to the local
curved surface like a pincushion: You want the force
on the wires to come straight down as much as possible,
trying to buckle the wire instead of bending it. Short
wires are always stiffer than long ones, and usually
harder to buckle than to bend.

One advantage of making a custom support like this
instead of suspending the whole mask on a wire, is
that if you miscalculate and the mask sags the wire,
it just moves closer to the support instead of crashing
sieways into something else in the kiln.


Best regards,






Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

Thanks for these suggesions. My first load of masks were in the kiln
overnight and they are cooling right now. I used the teeny triangular bars
coated with kiln wash to prop them this time. I have no idea if these will
work well.

This is so exciting as I used different colors on many of the masks. I used
different colors, used some gloss glazes and some matte glazes. (I was
careful to use glazes that needed the same cone rating.) I also made a bunch
of 2" sample flat pieces with two colors on them and then put a stripe of
matte and a stripe of gloss on top to see how it changes and left one small
section as out of the bottle. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that some
of them turn out well. I'll be letting you know this evening.

I'll probably make my own supports as the ones that can be purchased do not
fit the masks too well.
The tips are very helpful. Thanks.
Jeanne Rhea
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Transferring Images to Polymer Clay Tutorial
http://www.heartofclay.com/page35
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=vintagenet2
"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:58:51 -0500, "Jeanne Rhea"
wrote:

Thanks for this idea on the steel sheet. I need to find a source for wire
that is considered high temperature wire. I do have some bead wire and
supports for the kiln, but it is too thick for my taste.
I can see I have so much to learn. Thanks!
Jeanne Rhea

You can use even pretty thin bead wire to make
stilts, by just sticking it vertically into a clay pad but keeping
the exposed wire short (say, 1/4 inch or less). If you are
trying to support the concave backside of your masks,
you may want to build a little form just for this purpose.
It would look like a cast of the mask backside, with the
short support wires protruding vertically. Note that I
really do mean vertically, not perpendicular to the local
curved surface like a pincushion: You want the force
on the wires to come straight down as much as possible,
trying to buckle the wire instead of bending it. Short
wires are always stiffer than long ones, and usually
harder to buckle than to bend.

One advantage of making a custom support like this
instead of suspending the whole mask on a wire, is
that if you miscalculate and the mask sags the wire,
it just moves closer to the support instead of crashing
sieways into something else in the kiln.


Best regards,






Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

A small addition to Bob's excellent advice: when I make wire stilts, I cut
the end of the wire at an angle with the wire cutters to make a sharp point
which leaves even less evidence than a blunt end.
the common name for the most effective wire is Nichrome Wire. Kanthal or
Element wire becomes very brittle after a firing. Nichrome does not.

Steve

--

Steve Mills
Bath
UK

"Jeanne Rhea" wrote in message
...
Thanks for these suggesions. My first load of masks were in the kiln
overnight and they are cooling right now. I used the teeny triangular
bars coated with kiln wash to prop them this time. I have no idea if
these will work well.

This is so exciting as I used different colors on many of the masks. I
used different colors, used some gloss glazes and some matte glazes. (I
was careful to use glazes that needed the same cone rating.) I also made a
bunch of 2" sample flat pieces with two colors on them and then put a
stripe of matte and a stripe of gloss on top to see how it changes and
left one small section as out of the bottle. I'm just keeping my fingers
crossed that some of them turn out well. I'll be letting you know this
evening.

I'll probably make my own supports as the ones that can be purchased do
not fit the masks too well.
The tips are very helpful. Thanks.
Jeanne Rhea
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Transferring Images to Polymer Clay Tutorial
http://www.heartofclay.com/page35
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...id=vintagenet2
"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:58:51 -0500, "Jeanne Rhea"
wrote:

Thanks for this idea on the steel sheet. I need to find a source for
wire
that is considered high temperature wire. I do have some bead wire and
supports for the kiln, but it is too thick for my taste.
I can see I have so much to learn. Thanks!
Jeanne Rhea

You can use even pretty thin bead wire to make
stilts, by just sticking it vertically into a clay pad but keeping
the exposed wire short (say, 1/4 inch or less). If you are
trying to support the concave backside of your masks,
you may want to build a little form just for this purpose.
It would look like a cast of the mask backside, with the
short support wires protruding vertically. Note that I
really do mean vertically, not perpendicular to the local
curved surface like a pincushion: You want the force
on the wires to come straight down as much as possible,
trying to buckle the wire instead of bending it. Short
wires are always stiffer than long ones, and usually
harder to buckle than to bend.

One advantage of making a custom support like this
instead of suspending the whole mask on a wire, is
that if you miscalculate and the mask sags the wire,
it just moves closer to the support instead of crashing
sieways into something else in the kiln.


Best regards,






Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

Here are my first experiments with clay and the kiln. I have a lot to
learn, but still it was a lot of fun. One question though---I applied the
Amaco Designer Velvet Underglazes and fired. Can I apply a transparent
matte glaze and refire or will that crack or not stick?
I put some description on my blog and so you can read about it there.
http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Thanks for all your help!
Jeanne Rhea
Web site http://www.heartofclay.com/
Transferring Images to Polymer Clay Tutorial
http://www.heartofclay.com/page35
Art for the Heart Blog http://artfortheheart.blogspot.com/
Ebay listings
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=vintagenet2