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A question for lampworkers



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 5th 04, 04:21 PM
Diana Curtis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A question for lampworkers

I ask this question in total ignorance of the processes you go thru to make
lampworked beads. Almost total. I know there is melted glass involved, and
mandrels, and release stuff....and flame..
My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads? I see
florals, and stripes that appear pulled around on the surface, and bumps,
and worlds floating inside clear casings, animals, flowers and other
adornments sitting prettily on top of a bead, swirls, blips, frits.. and so
I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes involved.
It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these effects
are achieved, I dont mean to take your time away from actually making beads.
When Sooz posted the url for the clear beads with purple flowers and green
vines I was enchanted with them, and wondered about how hard it is to do
something like that opposed to .. for example.. some of Kalera's beads with
the ocean waves on them, or a sculptural piece such as the dalmation angel
with puppy.
One last question. How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?
Thank you for reading... I hope this sparks some interesting discussions...
Diana



Ads
  #2  
Old May 5th 04, 06:56 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

For me, the difficulty level directly effects the price of the bead.
Different artists will have different answers about what's difficult for
them. For me, the most time consuming, difficult beads are beads which have
patterns or florals that are encased. The more times the bead has to be
encased over a pattern, the tougher it is. Also, any bead that needs to be
shaped has a higher difficulty rating than a round bead for me. Bicones are
the hardest shape for me to do, mostly because I hardly do them. For some,
bicones and encasing are easier.
Some beads take a lot of time, but aren't necessarily difficult. If a bead
has a lot of twists or swirled patterns, it takes time, but for me those are
easier because I do them a lot. Same with raised florals. The more flowers
on a bead, the more time.
Also, sometimes the color of glass I am using will effect the difficulty.
Different glass works in different ways, and some colors are really hard to
work with, even though they are beautiful.
So basically, this is a tough question to answer.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I ask this question in total ignorance of the processes you go thru to

make
lampworked beads. Almost total. I know there is melted glass involved, and
mandrels, and release stuff....and flame..
My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads? I see
florals, and stripes that appear pulled around on the surface, and bumps,
and worlds floating inside clear casings, animals, flowers and other
adornments sitting prettily on top of a bead, swirls, blips, frits.. and

so
I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes

involved.
It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these

effects
are achieved, I dont mean to take your time away from actually making

beads.
When Sooz posted the url for the clear beads with purple flowers and

green
vines I was enchanted with them, and wondered about how hard it is to do
something like that opposed to .. for example.. some of Kalera's beads

with
the ocean waves on them, or a sculptural piece such as the dalmation angel
with puppy.
One last question. How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?
Thank you for reading... I hope this sparks some interesting

discussions...
Diana





  #3  
Old May 5th 04, 07:15 PM
Lori Greenberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Diana.

I'll answer this for me, as everyone finds difficulty in different things.

I would say that encased florals would have to be the hardest for me because
there are just so many steps. Add more color layers to the petals and it's
even that much more difficult and time consuming. The bigger the bead, the
more time it takes to get everything molten too, so that is $$.

Precise, raised, scrolling stringer work can be a stinker too since you have
to leave it raised enough without it popping off. Raised straight lines are
a breeze for me.

Well placed, even sized dots are easy for me. Frit beads are easy for me,
if you don't count the playing it takes to find what colors don't have icky
reactions.

Symmetric shapes other than round or donuts can be difficult because you
work agains the natural tendency of the molten glass to be round.

Realistic sculpture (frogs, dogs, faces, etc). For me...forget it.
Murrini? No way. Then we get into certain colors. Purple 254 (evil
purple), silver pink? I love to hate those sometimes.

Pricing should be based on the time involved, experience, and materials.
I'm finding more and more these days that I can only get the effects I want
with the more expensive glasses. Buyers may not realize that some glass
costs more (way more) to use than others. The difference can be $8 a pound
to $50 a pound for moretti colors. Colors like Ink Blue, Rubino Oro (Gold
Pink), Copper Green, Intense Black, Opal Yellow, a few of the pinks, tans
and a handful of others, will make a higher priced bead if used in larger
amounts. Silver in a bead also makes it more time consuming and more
expensive. I would guess dichro does the same.

Just some of my thoughts.

--
Lori Greenberg
http://www.beadnerd.com

ebay auctions:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...origre enberg

"Diana Curtis" wrote in message
...
I ask this question in total ignorance of the processes you go thru to

make
lampworked beads. Almost total. I know there is melted glass involved, and
mandrels, and release stuff....and flame..
My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads? I see
florals, and stripes that appear pulled around on the surface, and bumps,
and worlds floating inside clear casings, animals, flowers and other
adornments sitting prettily on top of a bead, swirls, blips, frits.. and

so
I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes

involved.
It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these

effects
are achieved, I dont mean to take your time away from actually making

beads.
When Sooz posted the url for the clear beads with purple flowers and

green
vines I was enchanted with them, and wondered about how hard it is to do
something like that opposed to .. for example.. some of Kalera's beads

with
the ocean waves on them, or a sculptural piece such as the dalmation angel
with puppy.
One last question. How does the difficulty level factor into the price of
the bead?
Thank you for reading... I hope this sparks some interesting

discussions...
Diana





  #4  
Old May 5th 04, 07:30 PM
starlia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As with Lori and Kandice I'm going to answer for myself, although they hit
on a lot of things that makes it time consuming for me.

I really hated encased florals because they are a pain to do well. The more
I do the easier they become. However, I pull very thick stringer to encase
instead of using a rod. The pulling of all the stringer takes time. This
is the same with the flowers. You must pull your stringer before starting
to make a bead.

I love sculptural beads and they are a breeze for me. I don't do a lot of
them right now because I'm working on other things to build my skill set. A
lot of folks would really argue that sculpturals are harder for them.

I don't think anyone mentioned that some beads have layers and layers of
color on them. Corina usually does beads with two layers of encasing with
different colors to get most of her effects. If you look at her purples she
uses EDP, then medium purple, and lastly light purple to get those really
sparkling beads. That takes time.

Then there are those beads that have tons of stuff going on inside them.
Tink's beads are a wonderful example. You can't tell in the photos, but she
has a whole world going through a bead before it's even encased. Those are
very hard for me to do.

Bicones are another thing that I don't do well and they take a lot of time.
I'm working on it though. Flowers with dimension sitting on top of the bead
take a lot of time because you have to create the stringer first. Most
times it's a base of opaque color, encased with a transparent color or two,
then adding stripes along the sides. Then pulling it into the right
thickness.

Hope that helps some.

s




  #5  
Old May 5th 04, 08:46 PM
starlia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

EDP, opal yellow, silver pink....
"vj" wrote in message
...
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Kandice Seeber"
:

]Also, sometimes the color of glass I am using will effect the difficulty.

EDP, Kandice???

**grin**


-----------
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
newest creations: http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
-----------
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.



  #6  
Old May 5th 04, 08:48 PM
Diana Curtis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you all... I am getting a clearer idea of which embellishments are
harder and why...
Im trying to understand the pricing of beads. Its a fairly obvious equation
on the face of things: the more time, the more glass, the more expensive the
glass and the trickier the technique is to master the higher priced the bead
must be. I imagine that each artist could quantify those elements somehow,
maybe some have, to get a rough idea of the cost to make a bead.
Then comes the trickier part. How much will someone be willing to pay for
that particular bead? If I may go back to the example of the beads Sooz
posted, from all you *plural ya'lls* have described the surface design on a
clear bead is not the most challenging design and yet someone may be willing
to pay more for that than an equally well executed bead made of the most
expensive and testy types of glass. How do you figure that into your
equations?
I do enjoy reading the steps it takes to create the beautiful beads you
make. I used to gasp when I looked at the auctions final prices and now I
just watch and applaud when they go nice and high. Another bonus is learning
to see the difference between well done and medium.
Diana


  #7  
Old May 5th 04, 09:28 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yep, and (sob!) I am addicted to the expensive colors!

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Hi Diana.

I'll answer this for me, as everyone finds difficulty in different things.

I would say that encased florals would have to be the hardest for me

because
there are just so many steps. Add more color layers to the petals and

it's
even that much more difficult and time consuming. The bigger the bead,

the
more time it takes to get everything molten too, so that is $$.

Precise, raised, scrolling stringer work can be a stinker too since you

have
to leave it raised enough without it popping off. Raised straight lines

are
a breeze for me.

Well placed, even sized dots are easy for me. Frit beads are easy for me,
if you don't count the playing it takes to find what colors don't have

icky
reactions.

Symmetric shapes other than round or donuts can be difficult because you
work agains the natural tendency of the molten glass to be round.

Realistic sculpture (frogs, dogs, faces, etc). For me...forget it.
Murrini? No way. Then we get into certain colors. Purple 254 (evil
purple), silver pink? I love to hate those sometimes.

Pricing should be based on the time involved, experience, and materials.
I'm finding more and more these days that I can only get the effects I

want
with the more expensive glasses. Buyers may not realize that some glass
costs more (way more) to use than others. The difference can be $8 a

pound
to $50 a pound for moretti colors. Colors like Ink Blue, Rubino Oro (Gold
Pink), Copper Green, Intense Black, Opal Yellow, a few of the pinks, tans
and a handful of others, will make a higher priced bead if used in larger
amounts. Silver in a bead also makes it more time consuming and more
expensive. I would guess dichro does the same.

Just some of my thoughts.

--
Lori Greenberg
http://www.beadnerd.com

ebay auctions:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...origre enberg

"Diana Curtis" wrote in message
...
I ask this question in total ignorance of the processes you go thru to

make
lampworked beads. Almost total. I know there is melted glass involved,

and
mandrels, and release stuff....and flame..
My question is, what are the most labor intensive type of beads? I see
florals, and stripes that appear pulled around on the surface, and

bumps,
and worlds floating inside clear casings, animals, flowers and other
adornments sitting prettily on top of a bead, swirls, blips, frits.. and

so
I wonder about what you find are the most time consuming processes

involved.
It would be fine if you know an url that showed how some of these

effects
are achieved, I dont mean to take your time away from actually making

beads.
When Sooz posted the url for the clear beads with purple flowers and

green
vines I was enchanted with them, and wondered about how hard it is to do
something like that opposed to .. for example.. some of Kalera's beads

with
the ocean waves on them, or a sculptural piece such as the dalmation

angel
with puppy.
One last question. How does the difficulty level factor into the price

of
the bead?
Thank you for reading... I hope this sparks some interesting

discussions...
Diana







  #8  
Old May 5th 04, 09:31 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't use EDP. Ever. I bought my first rod of it recently and still
haven't used it. LOL I'm skkkeeeeeeered!! Hehehe

Striking colors are harder to use. I use a lot of gold pink (rubino) so I am
used to its quirkiniess. Same with silver pink, opal yellow and streaky
pink. I hate ivory and dark turquoise because of the way they react. I
also have a hard time with some of the opaque newer colors because they
spread out like nobody's business and eat up any color that is applied
directly to them.

Some people just do not realize how much goes into making these beads. It's
hard to describe in words.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


]Also, sometimes the color of glass I am using will effect the difficulty.

EDP, Kandice???

**grin**


-----------
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
newest creations: http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
-----------
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.



  #9  
Old May 5th 04, 09:40 PM
Kandice Seeber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The more expensive colors tend to be more popular with buyers, because the
colors are really spectacular. So buyers tend to go ahead and pay more for
the really gorgeous stuff. Ink blue, dark lavender, gold pink, silver pink,
opal yellow, copper green, etc. are all more expensive because they are
handpulled and some contain precious metals - people love these colors in
beads.
I have never had any problems justifying my prices. Never. Not one time.
I've been told countless times to increase them. And I did when things were
getting out of hand and I couldn't keep up. Didn't help. People still
wanted the beads, even at higher prices. Dammit, I sould like such a snob,
but it's true.
There's something also about lampwork that you just cannot quantify or put
into a formula, and that's the artistic side. Pricing is hard, and I admit
that sometimes I just fly by the seat of my pants.
But I have never had anyone tell me that my stuff is not worth the price. I
have had people tell me that they can't afford my stuff, but that's common
no matter what you make. But there are always people in line behind the
people that can't afford it. I really wish I could make beads and sell them
for cheap to people who can't afford the expensive stuff. But I can't
afford that myself. There's too much work involved in this craft to do
that. Instead I have the weekly giveaway, and I sometimes donate beads to
charity and such. Then there are BFNR's. I do those when I can.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Thank you all... I am getting a clearer idea of which embellishments are
harder and why...
Im trying to understand the pricing of beads. Its a fairly obvious

equation
on the face of things: the more time, the more glass, the more expensive

the
glass and the trickier the technique is to master the higher priced the

bead
must be. I imagine that each artist could quantify those elements somehow,
maybe some have, to get a rough idea of the cost to make a bead.
Then comes the trickier part. How much will someone be willing to pay

for
that particular bead? If I may go back to the example of the beads Sooz
posted, from all you *plural ya'lls* have described the surface design on

a
clear bead is not the most challenging design and yet someone may be

willing
to pay more for that than an equally well executed bead made of the most
expensive and testy types of glass. How do you figure that into your
equations?
I do enjoy reading the steps it takes to create the beautiful beads you
make. I used to gasp when I looked at the auctions final prices and now I
just watch and applaud when they go nice and high. Another bonus is

learning
to see the difference between well done and medium.
Diana




  #10  
Old May 5th 04, 10:42 PM
Diana Curtis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kandice,
I hope I didnt give the impression that I wanted anyone to justify the
price of their beads. Nooooo... I rejoice when I see one of RCB's artists
auctions going high. I dont mind that they are out of my price range at this
point. Someday, perhaps, they wont be.
I want every artist who loves what they are doing as much as you and every
other bead artist whose joy shows so obviously in their work to get paid
scad loads of money so you can keep on doing it!
Im just a curious soul... I love to ask questions. There is no need *ever*
for an artist to justify a price they set on their work. Thats what the
consumer might do.. justify the price they pay*, but to me the artist is
free to set any price they want to and its up to the consumer to decide if
that object is worth that price.
Hugs
Diana
*ps. picture the beader who has come home with a fabulous bead that has used
up all the food money . Id say they better come up with a really good
reason to explain to the family why they are eatting top ramen for the rest
of the month. ;-)

"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message
...
The more expensive colors tend to be more popular with buyers, because the
colors are really spectacular. So buyers tend to go ahead and pay more for
the really gorgeous stuff. Ink blue, dark lavender, gold pink, silver

pink,
opal yellow, copper green, etc. are all more expensive because they are
handpulled and some contain precious metals - people love these colors in
beads.
I have never had any problems justifying my prices. Never. Not one time.
I've been told countless times to increase them. And I did when things

were
getting out of hand and I couldn't keep up. Didn't help. People still
wanted the beads, even at higher prices. Dammit, I sould like such a

snob,
but it's true.
There's something also about lampwork that you just cannot quantify or put
into a formula, and that's the artistic side. Pricing is hard, and I admi

t
that sometimes I just fly by the seat of my pants.
But I have never had anyone tell me that my stuff is not worth the price.

I
have had people tell me that they can't afford my stuff, but that's common
no matter what you make. But there are always people in line behind the
people that can't afford it. I really wish I could make beads and sell

them
for cheap to people who can't afford the expensive stuff. But I can't
afford that myself. There's too much work involved in this craft to do
that. Instead I have the weekly giveaway, and I sometimes donate beads to
charity and such. Then there are BFNR's. I do those when I can.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Thank you all... I am getting a clearer idea of which embellishments

are
harder and why...
Im trying to understand the pricing of beads. Its a fairly obvious

equation
on the face of things: the more time, the more glass, the more expensive

the
glass and the trickier the technique is to master the higher priced the

bead
must be. I imagine that each artist could quantify those elements

somehow,
maybe some have, to get a rough idea of the cost to make a bead.
Then comes the trickier part. How much will someone be willing to pay

for
that particular bead? If I may go back to the example of the beads Sooz
posted, from all you *plural ya'lls* have described the surface design

on
a
clear bead is not the most challenging design and yet someone may be

willing
to pay more for that than an equally well executed bead made of the most
expensive and testy types of glass. How do you figure that into your
equations?
I do enjoy reading the steps it takes to create the beautiful beads

you
make. I used to gasp when I looked at the auctions final prices and now

I
just watch and applaud when they go nice and high. Another bonus is

learning
to see the difference between well done and medium.
Diana






 




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