opal triplet ring resized

Hope you can advise me!
I took my opal triplet ring to a jeweler to have resized. When I got
it back, there was a white mark across the stone; damage had been done
during the process. The store owner looked at it and said he would
either repair or replace it.
I called them about a week after to ask what the status was and they
said it needed to be replaced; the person who did the damage had
ordered another one. I told them to give me back my original since it
had sentimental value. I was assured that "all triplet opals have the
same color" and that the new one would look like the old. More than a
month later,I went to pick up the ring and the stone was a completely
different color, and they didn't give me the original back. I handed
it back immediately and the store said they would do their best to
replace it with another one closer to the original color and that they
would get the original stone back.
I'm afraid they won't get a stone with the same color as my original.
What is fair to ask them to do if they don't get it right next time?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Matching opals (solid, doublets and triplets) to an exact match is pretty close
to impossible. Due
to the very nature of the stone each one will be different in one way or
another. Getting stones
that look similar is possible, but they will be simply similar, not exact.

Sounds like they were trying to reassure you without having a clue how they were
going to rectify
their stuff-up.

Dale Porter

"digicath" wrote in message
...
Hope you can advise me!
I took my opal triplet ring to a jeweler to have resized. When I got
it back, there was a white mark across the stone; damage had been done
during the process. The store owner looked at it and said he would
either repair or replace it.
I called them about a week after to ask what the status was and they
said it needed to be replaced; the person who did the damage had
ordered another one. I told them to give me back my original since it
had sentimental value. I was assured that "all triplet opals have the
same color" and that the new one would look like the old. More than a
month later,I went to pick up the ring and the stone was a completely
different color, and they didn't give me the original back. I handed
it back immediately and the store said they would do their best to
replace it with another one closer to the original color and that they
would get the original stone back.
I'm afraid they won't get a stone with the same color as my original.
What is fair to ask them to do if they don't get it right next time?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

"digicath" wrote in message
...
Hope you can advise me!
I took my opal triplet ring to a jeweler to have resized. When I got
it back, there was a white mark across the stone; damage had been done
during the process. The store owner looked at it and said he would
either repair or replace it.
I called them about a week after to ask what the status was and they
said it needed to be replaced; the person who did the damage had
ordered another one. I told them to give me back my original since it
had sentimental value. I was assured that "all triplet opals have the
same color" and that the new one would look like the old. More than a
month later,I went to pick up the ring and the stone was a completely
different color, and they didn't give me the original back. I handed
it back immediately and the store said they would do their best to
replace it with another one closer to the original color and that they
would get the original stone back.
I'm afraid they won't get a stone with the same color as my original.
What is fair to ask them to do if they don't get it right next time?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Tell them to replace the triplet with a "your own choice" of solid
opal(maybe a black opal) or triplet or you will complain to the relevent
authoraties. As Dale mentioned its virtually impossible to find an "exact"
match and quality is another issue. Some triplets cost $100s some cost a few
pennies. Also, if you want your original stone you have a full right to have
it back regardless. The white mark is almost certainly caused by abrasion.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:18:23 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Mousehunter ``'@o-
,,." wrote:

Tell them to replace the triplet with a "your own choice" of solid
opal(maybe a black opal)

that's not reasonable. Triplets are generally worth FAR less than solid stones
of comparable appearance. And Black opals that look like much? sheesh. You're
possibly suggesting the store should spend perhaps thousands of dollars to
replace a triplet probably worth under a hundred dollars, and possibly worth a
good deal less than that. Unless quite large (and this IS a ring, remember, so
how large is it?), most triplets have a wholesale cost of more like 20 bucks or
less... The store, if they damaged the stone, is generally responsible to
replace the stone with a similar value, not a lottery winning choice of whatever
the customer likes best among all opals out there.

or triplet or you will complain to the relevent
authoraties.

Which ones would that be? And you'd be complaining about what violation? If
you look at most store repair envelopes and reciepts, there are usually at
least some disclaimers of responsibility for certain losses. Opals are fragile.
Triplets, though more durable against chipping and cracking, are fragile in
other ways. It's doubtful that this loss is an intentional attempt at fraud, so
it's also doubtful there's grounds for any legal complaint. One might complain
to the better business bureau, but they're often at least a little conservative
in just who's side they take. If the store is sincerely trying to make things
right, they'll leave it alone.

As Dale mentioned its virtually impossible to find an "exact"
match and quality is another issue. Some triplets cost $100s some cost a few
pennies. Also, if you want your original stone you have a full right to have
it back regardless. The white mark is almost certainly caused by abrasion.

If the stone can be returned, it's still the customer's property, and should be
returned on request.

The white mark is probably NOT abrasion. Triplets have a quartz cap on top, and
are not that easy to abrade accidentally. Plus, this ring wasn't likely to have
been subjected to operations that would abrade it.

However, Triplets are sandwiches of a thin slice of opal between a black
substrate and the quartz cap, cemented with epoxy, usually. And the kicker is
that epoxies don't last forever. In particular, they can be sensative to water
damage. I'd bet, having seen this a number of times, that the triplet was
getting older, the epoxy was getting aged a bit, and someone not knowing better,
forgot and left the ring in the ultrasonic cleaner too long. The cleaner caused
the epoxy to start to delaminate, and that would be the white spot UNDER the
quart cap, not on the surface. It happens now and then. In a few cases, if the
epoxy is far enough gone, and the opal layer itself is not damaged, it's
actually sometimes possible to soak the triplet in Attack solvent to remove the
epoxy, seperating the triplet into it's three layers, and then regluing it all
back together fresh. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. The main
problem is that the opal layer is SO thin that expanding epoxy layers as they
degrade sometimes will fracture the opal, or a clumsy human, trying to handle it
along with fresh epoxy, might do so too.

The store will just have to spend a little more time obtaining a better match
for the triplet. Chances are, triplet opals are not a common item for them, and
their regular gem sources may not have had them in stock. So they may have to
do some looking to find a proper source for the things. But Triplets ARE
available, and with a bit of work, a replacement can be had. It's just an
unfortunate fuss and bother to have to go through, and pretty much everyone
looses. The customer ends up with a new good looking stone, but not the
sentimental value in it that the original one had, and the store spends a lot
more on the ring than they get for the sizing, all for an unfortunate accident.
But asking the store to jump through costly unreasonable hoops over this is
overlooking the fact that probably what happened is due to inherent risks and
faults in the original ring (the age and nature of the triplet), rather than
gross neglegence on the store's part. It would have been a lot better if the
take in staff had accepted the ring for repair only with a clear understanding
of the limits of liability.

Peter

Damn I learn alot when this guy opens his mouth! pity he wasn't in rochester
with the rochester lapidery society!


Jim Redden


"Peter W. Rowe" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:18:23 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Mousehunter
``'@o-
,,." wrote:

Tell them to replace the triplet with a "your own choice" of solid
opal(maybe a black opal)

that's not reasonable. Triplets are generally worth FAR less than solid
stones
of comparable appearance. And Black opals that look like much? sheesh.
You're
possibly suggesting the store should spend perhaps thousands of dollars to
replace a triplet probably worth under a hundred dollars, and possibly
worth a
good deal less than that. Unless quite large (and this IS a ring,
remember, so
how large is it?), most triplets have a wholesale cost of more like 20
bucks or
less... The store, if they damaged the stone, is generally responsible
to
replace the stone with a similar value, not a lottery winning choice of
whatever
the customer likes best among all opals out there.

or triplet or you will complain to the relevent
authoraties.

Which ones would that be? And you'd be complaining about what violation?
If
you look at most store repair envelopes and reciepts, there are usually
at
least some disclaimers of responsibility for certain losses. Opals are
fragile.
Triplets, though more durable against chipping and cracking, are fragile
in
other ways. It's doubtful that this loss is an intentional attempt at
fraud, so
it's also doubtful there's grounds for any legal complaint. One might
complain
to the better business bureau, but they're often at least a little
conservative
in just who's side they take. If the store is sincerely trying to make
things
right, they'll leave it alone.

As Dale mentioned its virtually impossible to find an "exact"
match and quality is another issue. Some triplets cost $100s some cost a
few
pennies. Also, if you want your original stone you have a full right to
have
it back regardless. The white mark is almost certainly caused by
abrasion.

If the stone can be returned, it's still the customer's property, and
should be
returned on request.

The white mark is probably NOT abrasion. Triplets have a quartz cap on
top, and
are not that easy to abrade accidentally. Plus, this ring wasn't likely
to have
been subjected to operations that would abrade it.

However, Triplets are sandwiches of a thin slice of opal between a black
substrate and the quartz cap, cemented with epoxy, usually. And the
kicker is
that epoxies don't last forever. In particular, they can be sensative to
water
damage. I'd bet, having seen this a number of times, that the triplet was
getting older, the epoxy was getting aged a bit, and someone not knowing
better,
forgot and left the ring in the ultrasonic cleaner too long. The cleaner
caused
the epoxy to start to delaminate, and that would be the white spot UNDER
the
quart cap, not on the surface. It happens now and then. In a few cases,
if the
epoxy is far enough gone, and the opal layer itself is not damaged, it's
actually sometimes possible to soak the triplet in Attack solvent to
remove the
epoxy, seperating the triplet into it's three layers, and then regluing it
all
back together fresh. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. The
main
problem is that the opal layer is SO thin that expanding epoxy layers as
they
degrade sometimes will fracture the opal, or a clumsy human, trying to
handle it
along with fresh epoxy, might do so too.

The store will just have to spend a little more time obtaining a better
match
for the triplet. Chances are, triplet opals are not a common item for
them, and
their regular gem sources may not have had them in stock. So they may
have to
do some looking to find a proper source for the things. But Triplets ARE
available, and with a bit of work, a replacement can be had. It's just
an
unfortunate fuss and bother to have to go through, and pretty much
everyone
looses. The customer ends up with a new good looking stone, but not the
sentimental value in it that the original one had, and the store spends a
lot
more on the ring than they get for the sizing, all for an unfortunate
accident.
But asking the store to jump through costly unreasonable hoops over this
is
overlooking the fact that probably what happened is due to inherent risks
and
faults in the original ring (the age and nature of the triplet), rather
than
gross neglegence on the store's part. It would have been a lot better if
the
take in staff had accepted the ring for repair only with a clear
understanding
of the limits of liability.

Peter

"Peter W. Rowe" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:18:23 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Mousehunter
``'@o-
,,." wrote:

Tell them to replace the triplet with a "your own choice" of solid
opal(maybe a black opal)

that's not reasonable. Triplets are generally worth FAR less than solid
stones
of comparable appearance. And Black opals that look like much? sheesh.
You're
possibly suggesting the store should spend perhaps thousands of dollars to
replace a triplet probably worth under a hundred dollars, and possibly
worth a
good deal less than that. Unless quite large (and this IS a ring,
remember, so
how large is it?), most triplets have a wholesale cost of more like 20
bucks or
less... The store, if they damaged the stone, is generally responsible
to
replace the stone with a similar value, not a lottery winning choice of
whatever
the customer likes best among all opals out there.


This was a semi-sarcastic remark, sorry Peter. Although I do believe the
customer deserves considerable compensation as Opals are unique and
therefore are impossible to replace exactly. An Opal to one person may be
worth a few dollars but to someone else maybe worth $1000s, this is the
nature of the Opal market and therefore valuation is near impossible whether
solid, doublet or triplet. This is why the customer should have a choice at
least of triplets. If the ring is custom-made it may be set with a "prize"
triplet that would cost $100s.

or triplet or you will complain to the relevent
authoraties.

Which ones would that be? And you'd be complaining about what violation?
If
you look at most store repair envelopes and reciepts, there are usually
at
least some disclaimers of responsibility for certain losses. Opals are
fragile.
Triplets, though more durable against chipping and cracking, are fragile
in
other ways. It's doubtful that this loss is an intentional attempt at
fraud, so
it's also doubtful there's grounds for any legal complaint. One might
complain
to the better business bureau, but they're often at least a little
conservative
in just who's side they take. If the store is sincerely trying to make
things
right, they'll leave it alone.

I don't live stateside so I don't know what authoraties you have over there
concerning company ethics or how effective they are. I have to say the many
highstreet jewellers aren't totally honest when valuing or repairing
jewellery. Opals are unique and therefore requires special treatment and
extra customer relations if a replacement is required, especially on
sentimental grounds.


As Dale mentioned its virtually impossible to find an "exact"
match and quality is another issue. Some triplets cost $100s some cost a
few
pennies. Also, if you want your original stone you have a full right to
have
it back regardless. The white mark is almost certainly caused by
abrasion.

If the stone can be returned, it's still the customer's property, and
should be
returned on request.

The white mark is probably NOT abrasion. Triplets have a quartz cap on
top, and
are not that easy to abrade accidentally. Plus, this ring wasn't likely
to have
been subjected to operations that would abrade it.

Some triplets are made with glass caps and bases. The glass base often
blackened using paint or a marker pen, generally these are poor quality
examples. If the triplet is made of glass cap and base it is likely to
abrade and leave a white mark. If this is the case, it would indicate that
the OPs triplet is of low value and a replacement of low value is in order.
Which may cause problems when looking for a "good" poor quality stone if
that isn't a contradiction


However, Triplets are sandwiches of a thin slice of opal between a black
substrate and the quartz cap, cemented with epoxy, usually. And the
kicker is
that epoxies don't last forever. In particular, they can be sensative to
water
damage. I'd bet, having seen this a number of times, that the triplet was
getting older, the epoxy was getting aged a bit, and someone not knowing
better,
forgot and left the ring in the ultrasonic cleaner too long. The cleaner
caused
the epoxy to start to delaminate, and that would be the white spot UNDER
the
quart cap, not on the surface. It happens now and then. In a few cases,
if the
epoxy is far enough gone, and the opal layer itself is not damaged, it's
actually sometimes possible to soak the triplet in Attack solvent to
remove the
epoxy, seperating the triplet into it's three layers, and then regluing it
all
back together fresh. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. The
main
problem is that the opal layer is SO thin that expanding epoxy layers as
they
degrade sometimes will fracture the opal, or a clumsy human, trying to
handle it
along with fresh epoxy, might do so too.

I agree, this is a problem with triplets also and a possability if the
jeweller is a complete incompetent as to put a triplet in an ultrasonic
bath. Triplets will show obvious age to the owner, in which case they have
them replaced, but the OP seems have been quite happy with the original and
doesn't mention anything wrong with it.


The store will just have to spend a little more time obtaining a better
match
for the triplet. Chances are, triplet opals are not a common item for
them, and
their regular gem sources may not have had them in stock. So they may
have to
do some looking to find a proper source for the things. But Triplets ARE
available, and with a bit of work, a replacement can be had. It's just
an
unfortunate fuss and bother to have to go through, and pretty much
everyone
looses. The customer ends up with a new good looking stone, but not the
sentimental value in it that the original one had, and the store spends a
lot
more on the ring than they get for the sizing, all for an unfortunate
accident.
But asking the store to jump through costly unreasonable hoops over this
is
overlooking the fact that probably what happened is due to inherent risks
and
faults in the original ring (the age and nature of the triplet), rather
than
gross neglegence on the store's part. It would have been a lot better if
the
take in staff had accepted the ring for repair only with a clear
understanding
of the limits of liability.


Triplets are easy to get hold of yes, but if it was a fine example, although
unlikely from the evidence, it maybe more difficult to obtain and a triplet
may have to be made-to-order.


Peter

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:54:28 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Mousehunter ``'@o-
,,." wrote:



This was a semi-sarcastic remark, sorry Peter. Although I do believe the
customer deserves considerable compensation as Opals are unique and
therefore are impossible to replace exactly. An Opal to one person may be
worth a few dollars but to someone else maybe worth $1000s, this is the
nature of the Opal market and therefore valuation is near impossible whether
solid, doublet or triplet. This is why the customer should have a choice at
least of triplets. If the ring is custom-made it may be set with a "prize"
triplet that would cost $100s.

I think we're in agreement here. The customer should be offered a stone worth
at least as much as the one damaged, and should, if possible be allowed some
opportunity to choose that replacement from several available options. The
store should try hard to provide options that really do have the same degree of
quality and beauty as the one damaged.


Some triplets are made with glass caps and bases. The glass base often
blackened using paint or a marker pen, generally these are poor quality
examples. If the triplet is made of glass cap and base it is likely to
abrade and leave a white mark. If this is the case, it would indicate that
the OPs triplet is of low value and a replacement of low value is in order.
Which may cause problems when looking for a "good" poor quality stone if
that isn't a contradiction


You're right on this point. I'd not been thinking of the glass capped cheaper
ones, since I see so few of them, and don't use that quality. But you're right,
they would be more prone to possible abrasion. And I might also mention that
with water damage, it's commonly seen as a discoloration or whiteish zone around
the periphery of the stone, from water seeping in from the edges and
progressively damaging the epoxy as it moves in, rather than damage isoated to
the middle of the stone. So you may be quite correct that the mark is abrasion
or similar damage, especially if the cap is glass not quartz. However, if the
damage is indeed just abrasion, then it would be quite feasable to simply have
any decent lapidary (if the jeweler couldn't do it) repolish the top surface of
the cap. That would acceptably fix the triplet in most cases.

Triplets are easy to get hold of yes, but if it was a fine example, although
unlikely from the evidence, it maybe more difficult to obtain and a triplet
may have to be made-to-order.

Well, few stores have contacts with anyone who can make one to order at a
reasonable cost, at least not and also match an existing one. But measures
short of that, i'd say might be reasonable. Still, I think it's also reasonable
that the store should not have to expect to pay too many times the actual value
of the damaged stone to make good on the situation.

In any repair work, it's often the case that the charges for the repair (like
sizing, etc) are a whole lot lower than would be needed if the jeweler fully
expected to cover any and all costs and liabilities for unforseen accidents.
Some shops do it anyway, but many smaller shops don't, and just hope they won't
take too many losses. Those with more on the ball will not only be careful
enough to examine work before accepting it for repair and fully explaining the
potential risks to the customer, but also deciding before hand, and explaining
it to the customer, what extent of liability they're accepting for potential
damage. Any fragile stone accepted for repair work should be evaluated in tis
manner before accepting the repair job, so that in the event of a problem, both
the jeweler and the client fully understand what the limits of liability are.

Peter Rowe
moderator
rec.crafts.jewelry

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:54:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Jim Redden"
wrote:

Damn I learn alot when this guy opens his mouth! pity he wasn't in rochester
with the rochester lapidery society!


Jim Redden


You're welcome, Jim. I got my start in Lapidary work in Madison Wisconsin,
before I got fully into metals, so my roots are there as much as in jewelry,
though after all these years (that summer job at Burnies rock shop was in 1969),
it all kinda blurrs together. Never been to Rochester, more's the pity.

As to opening my big mouth, remember that sometimes what you learn is that you
can't always believe everything you see in print in this group (grin)

And the other side to that statement is that there are a lot of times (and
perhaps should be even more) where I intentionally DON"T post replies to the
group as a whole even when the post seems of interest to me, but rather I keep
it only to email replies to the original poster. The reason is simply that as
moderator, I see all the posts first. If I reply to all of them, then some
percentage of other readers may not reply. Not sure why, but it seems to work
that way. The group is more active if I'm less visible. It's fairer this way,
with all readers having the opportunity to be first with a reply... But I'm
always here, if you've got a question you particularly wish me to address, I'll
be happy to take a stab at it. Sometimes, I manage to even know what I'm
talking about. Or think I do, at any rate... :-)

Peter Rowe
moderator
rec.crafts.jewelry

The only way to truly "match" color and pattern in Opal is to use a full
color stone with the color band thick enough to saw into two pieces that
will still be thick enough to "cut" and polish. Larger thin pieces can be
reasonably cut so that doublets of approximate pattern and intensity can be
made. Or to use succeeding thin sections of a full color stone that have
been "factory" sawn especially for triplet manufacture. The amount of Opal
in a triplet is actually quite tiny. It is manufactured from solid opal
sliced with a saw that has 101 blades over a 2 inch span so that an inch of
Opal produces 50 slices. Opal from either end of the stone will have a
different pattern and intensity of fire that is quite noticeable. Even
slices adjacent to each other will be slightly different. So no exact match
is possible without the original stone. If the triplet your jeweler provided
is even "close" in intensity, pattern, and color to the original accept it
as the best possible. No two Opals are ever exactly alike.

Hope this helps.
--


Don Thompson

Ex ROMAD


"digicath" wrote in message
...
Hope you can advise me!
I took my opal triplet ring to a jeweler to have resized. When I got
it back, there was a white mark across the stone; damage had been done
during the process. The store owner looked at it and said he would
either repair or replace it.
I called them about a week after to ask what the status was and they
said it needed to be replaced; the person who did the damage had
ordered another one. I told them to give me back my original since it
had sentimental value. I was assured that "all triplet opals have the
same color" and that the new one would look like the old. More than a
month later,I went to pick up the ring and the stone was a completely
different color, and they didn't give me the original back. I handed
it back immediately and the store said they would do their best to
replace it with another one closer to the original color and that they
would get the original stone back.
I'm afraid they won't get a stone with the same color as my original.
What is fair to ask them to do if they don't get it right next time?
Thanks in advance for any advice!