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Argentium Silver.
This article would seem to indicate that only the Name is protected:
UK Inventor, Finnish Manufacturer Team Up to Produce Tarnish-Free Silver - Alloy Took Ten Years of Trial and Error At long last - tanish-free silver. Could it be true? A British silversmith says he has found a way to make tarnish-free silver, and the largest silver manufacturer in Northern Europe, believes he is right. Peter Johns, a trained silversmith and technical tutor at Middlesex University has been working for about 10 years on a problem than has plagued smiths for centuries. Called firestain or firescale, the dark coating found on silver occurs when the metal oxidizes at high temperatures. It is nearly impossible to get rid of and it makes working the silver very difficult. "It causes problems when you join things together because if you solder on top of the firestain, you don't get a proper bond," says Johns. Silversmiths often deal with firestain by coating the metal with boric acid or other caustic, sometimes toxic solutions. Johns found that by adding germanium, a semiconductor used in early transistors and now employed mainly as a vital part of military nightscopes, the silver alloy didn't develop firestain. He said he tried germanium at the suggestion of a French company that was trying to find new uses for the element after the Cold War ended, military uses were diminishing and most transistors and chips were starting to be made of silicon. The tarnish resistant characteristic is what may be of the most interest to consumers but it is the firestain resistance that is most important to Johns and other silversmiths. Because firestain is virtually eliminated in the alloy, it can be welded with a laser, allowing increased automation of silver manufacturing. "You also need less,grinding," says Johns. The product has been in limited production since last year, but is growing almost weekly, according to Tony Jackson, technical development manager at Kultakeskus OY, an 81- year old privately owned silver manufacturer about 60 miles north of Helsinki. The company, which is the largest silver maker in Northern Europe, has been working with Johns for six years to learn the right amount of germanium and other metals to produce a silver product that has the best characteristics of sterling but without the firestain. "Finally, we found the correct mixture," says Jackson, "but it took us a long time to do it. We went through every possible usage (silverware, hollowware, Jewelry) until we found the correct percentage." The alloy is considered sterling because it is 92.5 percent (sometimes called '.925') pure silver. Like Johns, the most important aspect to the company is the no-firestain feature. "Because there's no firestain, it saves production time and we don't have to use acids or other substances (used to prevent firestain) that are not environmentally friendly." He adds: "One of the big savings is that we can weld which saves a lot of time. A lot of people said that we could never weld silver, but we can - with a laser." He says that consumers in Scandinavia are asking the company to produce additional products made of the tarnish-free alloy. "They're asking us 'when can you make such and such' product. We're increasing production weekly," said Johns who would not give out production figures. The new alloy is not without drawbacks. Adding germanium raises the price 7 to 10 percent, but Jackson believes that most consumers would gladly pay a premium if they didn't have to polish their silver pieces to eliminate tarnish. "To many people, it's drudgery." The other issue is that of,availability. Germanium is a by-product of lead and zinc extraction, and is also found in coal. The main source is in Kazikstan, which is in an unstable political region. "We're always worried about the price of germanium going up," says Jackson. Another side effect is that the silver alloy gets some yellow substance on it. "We're not sure what it is, but it wipes off easily with a damp cloth," says Jackson. The bulk of the effort to produce this new alloy has been accomplished by trial and error. "We trust the alloy," he says. "it does exactly what we want it to do and consumer demand is high and growing in Scandinavia and elsewhere." Johns realizes that skeptics exist, so he invites people to study. "It's in the public domain. Anyone can see it." He also freely gives demonstrations to silver makers on how to make the alloy. "They're surprised that I'm so open about it." Silver News - February / March 2000 http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/2a00.html Peter Johns is the creator of Argentium silver. From his closing statement above, it would seem the formula is not patented or protected in any way. -- Saint Séimí mac Liam Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve Prophet of The Great Tagger Canonized December '99 |
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Argentium Silver.
On Mar 4, 12:30=A0pm, "S=E9im=ED mac Liam"
wrote: This article would seem to indicate that only the Name is protected: UK Inventor, Finnish Manufacturer Team Up to Produce Tarnish-Free Silver - Alloy Took Ten Years of Trial and Error At long last - tanish-free silver. Could it be true? A British silversmith says he has found a way to make tarnish-free silver, and the largest silver manufacturer in Northern Europe, believes he is right. Peter Johns, a trained silversmith and technical tutor at Middlesex University has been working for about 10 years on a problem than has plagued smiths for centuries. Called firestain or firescale, the dark coating found on silver occurs when the metal oxidizes at high temperatures. It is nearly impossible to get rid of and it makes working the silver very difficult. "It causes problems when you join things together because if you solder on top of the firestain, you don't get a proper bond," says Johns. Silversmiths often deal with firestain by coating the metal with boric acid or other caustic, sometimes toxic solutions. Johns found that by adding germanium, a semiconductor used in early transistors and now employed mainly as a vital part of military nightscopes, the silver alloy didn't develop firestain. He said he tried germanium at the suggestion of a French company that was trying to find new uses for the element after the Cold War ended, military uses were diminishing and most transistors and chips were starting to be made of silicon. The tarnish resistant characteristic is what may be of the most interest to consumers but it is the firestain resistance that is most important to Johns and other silversmiths. Because firestain is virtually eliminated in the alloy, it can be welded with a laser, allowing increased automation of silver manufacturing. "You also need less,grinding," says Johns. The product has been in limited production since last year, but is growing almost weekly, according to Tony Jackson, technical development manager at Kultakeskus OY, an 81- year old privately owned silver manufacturer about 60 miles north of Helsinki. The company, which is the largest silver maker in Northern Europe, has been working with Johns for six years to learn the right amount of germanium and other metals to produce a silver product that has the best characteristics of sterling but without the firestain. "Finally, we found the correct mixture," says Jackson, "but it took us a long time to do it. We went through every possible usage (silverware, hollowware, Jewelry) until we found the correct percentage." The alloy is considered sterling because it is 92.5 percent (sometimes called '.925') pure silver. Like Johns, the most important aspect to the company is the no-firestain feature. "Because there's no firestain, it saves production time and we don't have to use acids or other substances (used to prevent firestain) that are not environmentally friendly." He adds: "One of the big savings is that we can weld which saves a lot of time. A lot of people said that we could never weld silver, but we can - with a laser." He says that consumers in Scandinavia are asking the company to produce additional products made of the tarnish-free alloy. "They're asking us 'when can you make such and such' product. We're increasing production weekly," said Johns who would not give out production figures. The new alloy is not without drawbacks. Adding germanium raises the price 7 to 10 percent, but Jackson believes that most consumers would gladly pay a premium if they didn't have to polish their silver pieces to eliminate tarnish. "To many people, it's drudgery." The other issue is that of,availability. Germanium is a by-product of lead and zinc extraction, and is also found in coal. The main source is in Kazikstan, which is in an unstable political region. "We're always worried about the price of germanium going up," says Jackson. Another side effect is that the silver alloy gets some yellow substance on it. "We're not sure what it is, but it wipes off easily with a damp cloth," says Jackson. The bulk of the effort to produce this new alloy has been accomplished by trial and error. "We trust the alloy," he says. "it does exactly what we want it to do and consumer demand is high and growing in Scandinavia and elsewhere." Johns realizes that skeptics exist, so he invites people to study. "It's in the public domain. Anyone can see it." He also freely gives demonstrations to silver makers on how to make the alloy. "They're surprised that I'm so open about it." Silver News - February / March 2000 http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/2a00.html Peter Johns is the creator of Argentium silver. =A0From his closing statement above, it would seem the formula is not patented or protected in any way. -- Saint S=E9im=ED mac Liam Carriagemaker to the =A0court of Queen Maeve Prophet of The Great Tagger Canonized December '99 I was kind of wondering about that myself.... How could one patent something that exists in raw materials for everyone to use ? I suppose it would be like trying to patent a pie crust. Cheers, /FC.. |
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Argentium Silver.
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:31:15 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jman
wrote: I was kind of wondering about that myself.... How could one patent something that exists in raw materials for everyone to use ? I suppose it would be like trying to patent a pie crust. No. Come up with a good pie crust recipe different from others and a significant improvement on prior ones, and you probably could patent it. What you couldn't patent would be the individual ingredients, flour, water, sugar, eggs, etc. In an alloy, you're not claiming patent protection for the ingredients, but rather the specific mix and proportions thereof, which then give the alloy properties not found in the individual componants and not duplicated in "prior art". Think about it. There are LOTS of products out there that are patented, but are made of known raw materials that are not themselves patented. |
#4
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Argentium Silver.
Séimí mac Liam wrote:
This article would seem to indicate that only the Name is protected: UK Inventor, Finnish Manufacturer Team Up to Produce Tarnish-Free Silver - Alloy Took Ten Years of Trial and Error At long last - tanish-free silver. Could it be true? A British silversmith says he has found a way to make tarnish-free silver, and the largest silver manufacturer in Northern Europe, believes he is right. Peter Johns, a trained silversmith and technical tutor at Middlesex University has been working for about 10 years on a problem than has plagued smiths for centuries. Called firestain or firescale, the dark coating found on silver occurs when the metal oxidizes at high temperatures. It is nearly impossible to get rid of and it makes working the silver very difficult. "It causes problems when you join things together because if you solder on top of the firestain, you don't get a proper bond," says Johns. Silversmiths often deal with firestain by coating the metal with boric acid or other caustic, sometimes toxic solutions. Johns found that by adding germanium, a semiconductor used in early transistors and now employed mainly as a vital part of military nightscopes, the silver alloy didn't develop firestain. He said he tried germanium at the suggestion of a French company that was trying to find new uses for the element after the Cold War ended, military uses were diminishing and most transistors and chips were starting to be made of silicon. The tarnish resistant characteristic is what may be of the most interest to consumers but it is the firestain resistance that is most important to Johns and other silversmiths. Because firestain is virtually eliminated in the alloy, it can be welded with a laser, allowing increased automation of silver manufacturing. "You also need less,grinding," says Johns. The product has been in limited production since last year, but is growing almost weekly, according to Tony Jackson, technical development manager at Kultakeskus OY, an 81- year old privately owned silver manufacturer about 60 miles north of Helsinki. The company, which is the largest silver maker in Northern Europe, has been working with Johns for six years to learn the right amount of germanium and other metals to produce a silver product that has the best characteristics of sterling but without the firestain. "Finally, we found the correct mixture," says Jackson, "but it took us a long time to do it. We went through every possible usage (silverware, hollowware, Jewelry) until we found the correct percentage." The alloy is considered sterling because it is 92.5 percent (sometimes called '.925') pure silver. Like Johns, the most important aspect to the company is the no-firestain feature. "Because there's no firestain, it saves production time and we don't have to use acids or other substances (used to prevent firestain) that are not environmentally friendly." He adds: "One of the big savings is that we can weld which saves a lot of time. A lot of people said that we could never weld silver, but we can - with a laser." He says that consumers in Scandinavia are asking the company to produce additional products made of the tarnish-free alloy. "They're asking us 'when can you make such and such' product. We're increasing production weekly," said Johns who would not give out production figures. The new alloy is not without drawbacks. Adding germanium raises the price 7 to 10 percent, but Jackson believes that most consumers would gladly pay a premium if they didn't have to polish their silver pieces to eliminate tarnish. "To many people, it's drudgery." The other issue is that of,availability. Germanium is a by-product of lead and zinc extraction, and is also found in coal. The main source is in Kazikstan, which is in an unstable political region. "We're always worried about the price of germanium going up," says Jackson. Another side effect is that the silver alloy gets some yellow substance on it. "We're not sure what it is, but it wipes off easily with a damp cloth," says Jackson. The bulk of the effort to produce this new alloy has been accomplished by trial and error. "We trust the alloy," he says. "it does exactly what we want it to do and consumer demand is high and growing in Scandinavia and elsewhere." Johns realizes that skeptics exist, so he invites people to study. "It's in the public domain. Anyone can see it." He also freely gives demonstrations to silver makers on how to make the alloy. "They're surprised that I'm so open about it." Silver News - February / March 2000 http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/2a00.html Peter Johns is the creator of Argentium silver. From his closing statement above, it would seem the formula is not patented or protected in any way. All power to the developer and the firestain free alloy. BUT there are a lot of inaccuracies in the article. Fire stain is not the oxidation of the silver, but the oxidation of the copper in the sterling alloy. The baloney about the use of dangerous chemicals and acids etc is just a smoke screen. Im happy to say this year is my 40th!! as a silversmith and over this time, I made 1000's of joints in all metals from the simplest using lead solders to fusion welding of titanium. With the right technique, the right fluxes, and the right joining alloy, meaning brazing alloys, one can make fire stain free joins in sterling all day long,without damage to oneself and the enviroment. 20 yrs ago we had the development of firestain free silver alloy using aluminium as the hardening part. Take up was small. You can braze titanium with silver IF you know how. Ted Dorset UK |
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Argentium Silver.
"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in
: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:31:15 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jman wrote: I was kind of wondering about that myself.... How could one patent something that exists in raw materials for everyone to use ? I suppose it would be like trying to patent a pie crust. No. Come up with a good pie crust recipe different from others and a significant improvement on prior ones, and you probably could patent it. What you couldn't patent would be the individual ingredients, flour, water, sugar, eggs, etc. In an alloy, you're not claiming patent protection for the ingredients, but rather the specific mix and proportions thereof, which then give the alloy properties not found in the individual componants and not duplicated in "prior art". Think about it. There are LOTS of products out there that are patented, but are made of known raw materials that are not themselves patented. Propriety recipes- for pie or silver- are usually protected by secrecy. I'm no expert, but I have done some investigation of patents with a patent attorney in regard to products I have invented. -- Saint Séimí mac Liam Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve Prophet of The Great Tagger Canonized December '99 |
#6
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Argentium Silver.
Ted Frater wrote in
: Séimí mac Liam wrote: This article would seem to indicate that only the Name is protected: UK Inventor, Finnish Manufacturer Team Up to Produce Tarnish-Free Silver - Alloy Took Ten Years of Trial and Error At long last - tanish-free silver. Could it be true? A British silversmith says he has found a way to make tarnish-free silver, and the largest silver manufacturer in Northern Europe, believes he is right. Peter Johns, a trained silversmith and technical tutor at Middlesex University has been working for about 10 years on a problem than has plagued smiths for centuries. Called firestain or firescale, the dark coating found on silver occurs when the metal oxidizes at high temperatures. It is nearly impossible to get rid of and it makes working the silver very difficult. "It causes problems when you join things together because if you solder on top of the firestain, you don't get a proper bond," says Johns. Silversmiths often deal with firestain by coating the metal with boric acid or other caustic, sometimes toxic solutions. Johns found that by adding germanium, a semiconductor used in early transistors and now employed mainly as a vital part of military nightscopes, the silver alloy didn't develop firestain. He said he tried germanium at the suggestion of a French company that was trying to find new uses for the element after the Cold War ended, military uses were diminishing and most transistors and chips were starting to be made of silicon. The tarnish resistant characteristic is what may be of the most interest to consumers but it is the firestain resistance that is most important to Johns and other silversmiths. Because firestain is virtually eliminated in the alloy, it can be welded with a laser, allowing increased automation of silver manufacturing. "You also need less,grinding," says Johns. The product has been in limited production since last year, but is growing almost weekly, according to Tony Jackson, technical development manager at Kultakeskus OY, an 81- year old privately owned silver manufacturer about 60 miles north of Helsinki. The company, which is the largest silver maker in Northern Europe, has been working with Johns for six years to learn the right amount of germanium and other metals to produce a silver product that has the best characteristics of sterling but without the firestain. "Finally, we found the correct mixture," says Jackson, "but it took us a long time to do it. We went through every possible usage (silverware, hollowware, Jewelry) until we found the correct percentage." The alloy is considered sterling because it is 92.5 percent (sometimes called '.925') pure silver. Like Johns, the most important aspect to the company is the no-firestain feature. "Because there's no firestain, it saves production time and we don't have to use acids or other substances (used to prevent firestain) that are not environmentally friendly." He adds: "One of the big savings is that we can weld which saves a lot of time. A lot of people said that we could never weld silver, but we can - with a laser." He says that consumers in Scandinavia are asking the company to produce additional products made of the tarnish-free alloy. "They're asking us 'when can you make such and such' product. We're increasing production weekly," said Johns who would not give out production figures. The new alloy is not without drawbacks. Adding germanium raises the price 7 to 10 percent, but Jackson believes that most consumers would gladly pay a premium if they didn't have to polish their silver pieces to eliminate tarnish. "To many people, it's drudgery." The other issue is that of,availability. Germanium is a by-product of lead and zinc extraction, and is also found in coal. The main source is in Kazikstan, which is in an unstable political region. "We're always worried about the price of germanium going up," says Jackson. Another side effect is that the silver alloy gets some yellow substance on it. "We're not sure what it is, but it wipes off easily with a damp cloth," says Jackson. The bulk of the effort to produce this new alloy has been accomplished by trial and error. "We trust the alloy," he says. "it does exactly what we want it to do and consumer demand is high and growing in Scandinavia and elsewhere." Johns realizes that skeptics exist, so he invites people to study. "It's in the public domain. Anyone can see it." He also freely gives demonstrations to silver makers on how to make the alloy. "They're surprised that I'm so open about it." Silver News - February / March 2000 http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/2a00.html Peter Johns is the creator of Argentium silver. From his closing statement above, it would seem the formula is not patented or protected in any way. All power to the developer and the firestain free alloy. BUT there are a lot of inaccuracies in the article. Fire stain is not the oxidation of the silver, but the oxidation of the copper in the sterling alloy. The baloney about the use of dangerous chemicals and acids etc is just a smoke screen. Im happy to say this year is my 40th!! as a silversmith and over this time, I made 1000's of joints in all metals from the simplest using lead solders to fusion welding of titanium. With the right technique, the right fluxes, and the right joining alloy, meaning brazing alloys, one can make fire stain free joins in sterling all day long,without damage to oneself and the enviroment. 20 yrs ago we had the development of firestain free silver alloy using aluminium as the hardening part. Take up was small. You can braze titanium with silver IF you know how. Ted Dorset UK . Though no veteran of forty years, I did notice those same inaccuracies. I posted the article only for the Peter Johns' quote wrt protection of the formula. -- Saint Séimí mac Liam Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve Prophet of The Great Tagger Canonized December '99 |
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Argentium Silver.
Séimí mac Liam wrote:
Ted Frater wrote in : Séimí mac Liam wrote: This article would seem to indicate that only the Name is protected: UK Inventor, Finnish Manufacturer Team Up to Produce Tarnish-Free Silver - Alloy Took Ten Years of Trial and Error At long last - tanish-free silver. Could it be true? A British silversmith says he has found a way to make tarnish-free silver, and the largest silver manufacturer in Northern Europe, believes he is right. Peter Johns, a trained silversmith and technical tutor at Middlesex University has been working for about 10 years on a problem than has plagued smiths for centuries. Called firestain or firescale, the dark coating found on silver occurs when the metal oxidizes at high temperatures. It is nearly impossible to get rid of and it makes working the silver very difficult. "It causes problems when you join things together because if you solder on top of the firestain, you don't get a proper bond," says Johns. Silversmiths often deal with firestain by coating the metal with boric acid or other caustic, sometimes toxic solutions. Johns found that by adding germanium, a semiconductor used in early transistors and now employed mainly as a vital part of military nightscopes, the silver alloy didn't develop firestain. He said he tried germanium at the suggestion of a French company that was trying to find new uses for the element after the Cold War ended, military uses were diminishing and most transistors and chips were starting to be made of silicon. The tarnish resistant characteristic is what may be of the most interest to consumers but it is the firestain resistance that is most important to Johns and other silversmiths. Because firestain is virtually eliminated in the alloy, it can be welded with a laser, allowing increased automation of silver manufacturing. "You also need less,grinding," says Johns. The product has been in limited production since last year, but is growing almost weekly, according to Tony Jackson, technical development manager at Kultakeskus OY, an 81- year old privately owned silver manufacturer about 60 miles north of Helsinki. The company, which is the largest silver maker in Northern Europe, has been working with Johns for six years to learn the right amount of germanium and other metals to produce a silver product that has the best characteristics of sterling but without the firestain. "Finally, we found the correct mixture," says Jackson, "but it took us a long time to do it. We went through every possible usage (silverware, hollowware, Jewelry) until we found the correct percentage." The alloy is considered sterling because it is 92.5 percent (sometimes called '.925') pure silver. Like Johns, the most important aspect to the company is the no-firestain feature. "Because there's no firestain, it saves production time and we don't have to use acids or other substances (used to prevent firestain) that are not environmentally friendly." He adds: "One of the big savings is that we can weld which saves a lot of time. A lot of people said that we could never weld silver, but we can - with a laser." He says that consumers in Scandinavia are asking the company to produce additional products made of the tarnish-free alloy. "They're asking us 'when can you make such and such' product. We're increasing production weekly," said Johns who would not give out production figures. The new alloy is not without drawbacks. Adding germanium raises the price 7 to 10 percent, but Jackson believes that most consumers would gladly pay a premium if they didn't have to polish their silver pieces to eliminate tarnish. "To many people, it's drudgery." The other issue is that of,availability. Germanium is a by-product of lead and zinc extraction, and is also found in coal. The main source is in Kazikstan, which is in an unstable political region. "We're always worried about the price of germanium going up," says Jackson. Another side effect is that the silver alloy gets some yellow substance on it. "We're not sure what it is, but it wipes off easily with a damp cloth," says Jackson. The bulk of the effort to produce this new alloy has been accomplished by trial and error. "We trust the alloy," he says. "it does exactly what we want it to do and consumer demand is high and growing in Scandinavia and elsewhere." Johns realizes that skeptics exist, so he invites people to study. "It's in the public domain. Anyone can see it." He also freely gives demonstrations to silver makers on how to make the alloy. "They're surprised that I'm so open about it." Silver News - February / March 2000 http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/2a00.html Peter Johns is the creator of Argentium silver. From his closing statement above, it would seem the formula is not patented or protected in any way. All power to the developer and the firestain free alloy. BUT there are a lot of inaccuracies in the article. Fire stain is not the oxidation of the silver, but the oxidation of the copper in the sterling alloy. The baloney about the use of dangerous chemicals and acids etc is just a smoke screen. Im happy to say this year is my 40th!! as a silversmith and over this time, I made 1000's of joints in all metals from the simplest using lead solders to fusion welding of titanium. With the right technique, the right fluxes, and the right joining alloy, meaning brazing alloys, one can make fire stain free joins in sterling all day long,without damage to oneself and the enviroment. 20 yrs ago we had the development of firestain free silver alloy using aluminium as the hardening part. Take up was small. You can braze titanium with silver IF you know how. Ted Dorset UK . Though no veteran of forty years, I did notice those same inaccuracies. I posted the article only for the Peter Johns' quote wrt protection of the formula. It looks as tho the article was written by a non technical journalist outside of our chosen field. no personaloffence meant!!. Ted Dorset UK |
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Argentium Silver.
Ted Frater wrote in
: Séimí mac Liam wrote: Ted Frater wrote in : Séimí mac Liam wrote: [[long quoted section snipped] Though no veteran of forty years, I did notice those same inaccuracies. I posted the article only for the Peter Johns' quote wrt protection of the formula. It looks as tho the article was written by a non technical journalist outside of our chosen field. no personaloffence meant!!. Ted Dorset UK None taken. -- Saint Séimí mac Liam Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve Prophet of The Great Tagger Canonized December '99 |
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