Gold plating

I got some new gold plating solution today and the inside of my wine
glass is now a lovely bright gold. The other solution was obviously
over the hill.

When I sanded and polished the bottom preparatory to plating I notice it
was now a copper color that I thought might have been from the bad gold
solution. However, I then noted that the pickle I cleaned it with was
green.

So the moral of the story with this plating solution is use it or lose
it. Six months ago it was working well.

js


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Jack Schmidling wrote:
I got some new gold plating solution today and the inside of my wine
glass is now a lovely bright gold. The other solution was obviously
over the hill.

When I sanded and polished the bottom preparatory to plating I notice it
was now a copper color that I thought might have been from the bad gold
solution. However, I then noted that the pickle I cleaned it with was
green.

So the moral of the story with this plating solution is use it or lose
it. Six months ago it was working well.

js


youir second paragraph last line
The pickle was green.
theres your cause, its green cos its got copper in solution which will
automatically plate itself to any other dissimilar metal.
My guess is that your gold plating solution wasdnt off, just depleted.
IE No more gold left in it.
Getting back to pickle, always use freshly mixed not pre used on a job
like that.
If you want a bright dip ill dig out the recepe and post it here, tho
its dangerous stuff, works fantastically.
ted.

Ted Frater wrote:

The pickle was green.
theres your cause, its green cos its got copper in solution which will
automatically plate itself to any other dissimilar metal.

Roger. I just failed to make the connection until I went back out to
clean it again.

My guess is that your gold plating solution wasdnt off, just depleted.
IE No more gold left in it.

Well, the last time I used it (more than 6 months ago) it worked just
fine so I have to believe it is a shelf life thing. It won't plate at
all now, no matter how long I pass current through it.

Getting back to pickle, always use freshly mixed not pre used on a job
like that.

I just hate to throw stuff away so I keep the jar of green stuff for
cleaning castings but was too lazy to mix up new for this.

If you want a bright dip ill dig out the recepe and post it here, tho
its dangerous stuff, works fantastically.

Thanks but I am pretty happy with how it looks now.

js


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PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
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Jack Schmidling wrote:
I got some new gold plating solution today and the inside of my wine
glass is now a lovely bright gold. The other solution was obviously
over the hill.


That's because you used your old solution incorrectly. You probably useda
stainless steel anode or something other than gold, which will cause the
depletion of the plating solution, because as you plate the gold will be
extracted from the solution. If you use a sheet of 24 K gold as your anode,
your solution will never get depleted, because the plating will come fromyour
gold anode via the solution, instead of from the solution.

You will only have to add some distilled water to your solution from timeto
time to keep the level up. And if you started with a thick enough 24K gold
anode, you will never have to replace that either. My bottle of 24K gold
plating solution from Hoover and Strong has lasted about 20 years so far,and is
still going strong. And my anode was only .3 mm thick when I started, itis now
about .2 mm thick.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:48:49 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:

Jack Schmidling wrote:
I got some new gold plating solution today and the inside of my wine
glass is now a lovely bright gold. The other solution was obviously
over the hill.


That's because you used your old solution incorrectly. You probably used a
stainless steel anode or something other than gold, which will cause the
depletion of the plating solution, because as you plate the gold will be
extracted from the solution. If you use a sheet of 24 K gold as your anode,
your solution will never get depleted, because the plating will come from your
gold anode via the solution, instead of from the solution.

You will only have to add some distilled water to your solution from time to
time to keep the level up. And if you started with a thick enough 24K gold
anode, you will never have to replace that either. My bottle of 24K gold
plating solution from Hoover and Strong has lasted about 20 years so far, and is
still going strong. And my anode was only .3 mm thick when I started, it is now
about .2 mm thick.

Hi Abrasha.

Your statement agrees with my experience in the case of traditional cyanide
based plating solutions, for the most part. My own bottles of those types are
around fifteen years old, and with a bit of maintenance sometimes, still work
fine, as you describe.

Actually, though, they're not totally maintenance free. Gold plating solutions
work best when there is some free cyanide in the solution. Over time, some of
the cyanide can slowly degrade to inert carbonates. The bath still works, but
the color will tend to be paler and throwing power decreases. So every now and
then it can help to add a tiny pinch of sodium cyanide to the bath if thecolor
seems less intense than it used to be. Other than that, I've not had shelf life
problems with cyanide gold or silver plating baths.

However, Jack says he's using the cyanide free stuff. The chloride basedbaths
have, in my experience, some more limited life spans. Something in them
degrades. Not sure if it's due to storage temp or exposure to light, or what,
but I had a bottle of chloride based, (cyanide free, of course) 24K gold
plating solution that was about three years old when I went to use it again, and
as with Jack's experience, it didn't work well. It did sort of plate some, but
not properly at all. No real throwing power, kind of uneven coverage, and the
color was a very pale yellow. I ended up letting it dry out to powder, and
sending that back for refining along with other scrap (seperately packaged). not
sure if the refiner actually paid me anything for it. Prolly not, but itwas
sent anyway. Couldn't have been more than a half a gram of gold by that point
anyway, so no big loss...

Peter

Abrasha wrote:

That's because you used your old solution incorrectly.....

First of all, if it was depleted, it would have gradually faded away.
In fact I plated a piece 6 months ago with no problems and can plate
nothing with it now. It's been disposed of.

You probably used a stainless steel anode or something other than gold....

As Peter pointed out, I am using an acid based system so before I invest
in a piece of gold, does this change your comments?

I have a Gold Eagle coin... can I use this? I don't know if they are
pure gold or it that's an issue.

Thanks for the heads up.... if it works. The juice is expensive and
expensive things with shelf life are a pain.

js

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PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

Hi Jack, I would like to see the recipe for the "bright dip".
Thanks,
Don Norris

Jack Schmidling wrote:


Thanks for the heads up.... if it works. The juice is expensive and
expensive things with shelf life are a pain.

js


I don't think they're very expensive, considering that they will last virtually
the rest of your life, if taken care of properly. About $60.00 for a quart.
Shipping will probably add another $20 or so, since it is a dangerous chemical,
and requires special shipping by law.

If you have the plating done by a professional, it will cost you at leastthat
much, if not more, to have the inside of a silver cup properly plated.

http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=514

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:55:38 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:

Jack Schmidling wrote:


Thanks for the heads up.... if it works. The juice is expensive and
expensive things with shelf life are a pain.

js


I don't think they're very expensive, considering that they will last virtually
the rest of your life, if taken care of properly. About $60.00 for a quart.
Shipping will probably add another $20 or so, since it is a dangerous chemical,
and requires special shipping by law.

If you have the plating done by a professional, it will cost you at least that
much, if not more, to have the inside of a silver cup properly plated.

http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=514



relative to earlier posts about gold plating solution, notice that in Otto
Frei's description of the baths in your link, that they state that the karat
gold listed refers to the shade produced. It's not the actual karat, just the
color. Jack was correct in his belief that this is the case.

:-)

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:59:42 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling
wrote:

Abrasha wrote:

I don't think they're very expensive, considering that they will lastvirtually
the rest of your life, if taken care of properly. About $60.00 for aquart.

I was basing it on what I paid for a much smaller quantity of
non-cyanide solution and I agree, cost is not an issue especially if the
gold can be replenished.

The unanswered question is, can I replenish the gold in the non-cyanide
based solution?

Check the bottle's directions. If it says to use either a gold or stainless
anode, then using the gold one will help keep the gold from being depleted. If
it lists only a stainless one, then perhaps it's not designed for a gold anode.
You could always call the manufacturer and inquire. Plating solutions ofthis
type of not all the same from brand to brand, and optimal operating conditions
may vary. The cyanide based ones are more similar.



The new question is, what do I need to know about the risks of using
cyanide solution other than not to drink it?

The main one is to first, work with good lab technique so you don't contaminate
unintended things with traces of cyanide. Reserve a seperate beaker for
plating, and use it for nothing else, for example, rather than just grabbing
something handy from the kitchen. Keep food and drink totally out of thearea
in which you are plating. Decent ventilation. Do it in an appropriate area,
not the kitchen. That sort of common sense thing. It avoids the inadvertant
accidents.

Chemically, the main caution is to avoid contact with any sort of acid. That
means items to be plated should not have traces of pickle, for example, on them.
Mixing acid and cyanide solutions together produces hydrogen cyanide gas,an
extremely lethal form of cyanide, which incidentally, killed it's discoverer.
Also called Prussic acid. Hyrdogen cyanide is the stuff they use in gas chamber
executions, producing it by dropping a couple chunks of sodium or potassium
cyanide into hydriochloric acid, so far as I know. Most accidental victims of
the stuff never realise there's been a problem until they're dropping, and by
then it's too late. Hits em too fast, and tends ot kill too quickly for aid to
arrive in time. So this is simply something you very much need to avoid
producing. Make sure the solution is always put into containers that are
totally clean, not something that previously, or later, will contain acidor
pickle, or the like. Items put into the bath must equally be acid free, and
after plating, drag out residues from the bath cannot be allowed to get to
anything acidic. So long as you're paranoid about this absolute need to avoid
mixing acid and cyanide together, and equally paranoid about doing anything that
could lead you to accidentally ingest the stuff, you'll be fine. It alsohelps
to understand that the main reason why cyanides are so dangerous is the speed
with which they work as toxins. Unlike some toxins, where exceedingly tiny
amounts can be lethal, cyanide actually needs a big enough dose to kill quickly,
that it's not that hard to avoid. But small doses or chronic low level exposure
is also dangerous. So work carefully. Gloves to prevent skin contact are a
good idea, as are other similar cautions. If you're simply prudent and careful,
and think what you're doing through first, you'll be fine. Most accidents with
the stuff happen when people get complacent around it. Look up and read an MSDS
sheet on sodium Cyanide. But understand that in the commercial plating
industry, it's not uncommon to have rooms with large vats of cyanide solutions
running, and people working around them in pretty normal attire. It's not like
you need hazmat suits to work with the stuff. Most jewelers use it pretty
casually, and we only loose a few of em, and that, only rarely... (grin)

Peter