OT Big Rant, not about Beads at all

Holy Geez! I'd be ****ed to! In fact, I'm ****ed with you.

DD handled it well, even with saying the "F" word. I have no idea why they
think one racial slur is worse than another. Puuuuleeze! I know you well
enough by now that I know you are going to take care of business. I would
love to be a fly on the wall with your meeting at the school.

As for the other mother, well I'm sorry to say that some folks don't see
their children as anything but perfect. I never was and I admitted when I
did things wrong. Even if I could have gotten away with it.

s

Good lucky, Kathy, and hugs to you and your DD!!!!

Mine shared a somewhat similar story with me a few weeks ago. Seems one of
her friends, K, and another friend, C, were suspended for 10 days. K had
been relating an incident about someone else to classmates during gym class.
The incident included some slurs about Mormons (of which we have MANY in the
area), and K was telling her friends about correcting the slurs and telling
this other girl she was wrong about her assumptions. K, BTW, is not Mormon.
Her friend, C (part of DD's vast "gang of many") overheard the comments,
apparently took them entirely out of context, and came over to K and slapped
her across the face, hard. C is Mormon and apparently got offended by what
she thought she heard. K backed up and pushed C away in self-defense and
when C closed in for a second smach, K pushed her away. The teacher noticed
at this point, hadn't seen all of it, and sent them BOTH to the principal's
office.

Both girls have visited here, and I think they're both reasonably okay (for
15 year-old-girls LOL). I'm stunned by C's behavior, but indignant that K
was penalized equally for "fighting." Since when is self-defense fighting?
Should she just have stood there and allowed C to hit her? I think this is
one of the times when "zero tolerance" has run amok.

The really sad thing is that now two former friends don't speak to each
other...all over a poorly interpreted incidence of eavesdropping. But I have
to say, WTF possessed C to haul off and hit K over it? Bizarre, all things
considered. My DD is really upset over the whole thing, mainly because she
tends to be a) a peacemaker and b) blessed with a strong sense of fair play.

I understand the principles behind the zero tolerance stuff. And coming from
a school where all sorts of slurs were ignored and DD has been called "too
sensitive" for being upset by bullying, I sorta kinda like the zero slant.
BUT it's NOT fair, and sends and equally bad message IMO. Guilt by
association, tolerating verbal bullying, and other things like that have a
heavier sense of "wrong" to me than caving in to the bullying when one's
length of rope has been reached.

Hugs again,
KarenK


"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
I got a call from DD's principal today, wanting to warn me that DD was
going
to be very angry coming home today, and rightfully so. The principal said
that DD was entirely in the right, but the school rules say that if two
kids
are arguing, both need to go to the office and get a "talking to." Once I
heard the details, I was shaking with anger, and I understood why DD was
so
upset.

My Opa was in a concentration camp during WWII. We are incredibly lucky
to
have had him return, and are inordinately sensitive to anyone who equates
all
Germans with Nazis. That isn't true, it's never been true, and it's
incredibly hurtful and offensive to even suggest it.

One girl in DD's class has been calling DD a Nazi, "Mrs. Hitler," and "J*w
Killer" for several weeks. She keeps taunting DD to say "the N word" in
return, because all the kids know that saying that word will get you
suspended. (The girl is African American, and has goaded other children
into
calling her that word before. Then she sits back and laughs when they get
five days suspension, which pretty much guarantees you will fail all your
courses that term, since you get five days worth of zeroes for all your
classes)

Apparently, the girl got careless today, and a teacher overheard the girl
saying her evil stuff and DD using the F word. Both kids got sent to the
office to visit the principal. The principal listened to both of their
stories, and agreed with DD that one ethnic slur is as bad as the other,
and
also agreed with DD's argument that it's not fair to punish for one "N"
word
and not another. The other girl denied everything, and claimed the teacher
was lying when he reported the event as DD had told it. (BTW, DD had to
apologize for using the F word. The other child didn't apologize for her
part in the dispute)

The principal called me and the other child's mother. The other mom got
all
huffy and claimed that the two words are not even remotely equal, and her
daughter had better not be punished. The principal told me that the
school
is going to have to back down, because they cannot afford a racial
incident.
I am not satisfied with that decision, and DH and I are meeting with the
principal to discuss it. If I have to go all the way up the food chain
with
this one, I will do so in a heartbeat.

I've always told DD that the "N word" is something that no decent person
would say, and racial insults aren't DD's style, anyway. (I'm not so
deluded
as to think my kid is Miss Perfect. She says other rotten things, but
racial
stuff isn't like her.) There are so many kids of all races in her school
that most of the kids are practically color blind. I was really proud of
DD's classmates, though - they went to the teacher and then the principal
to
tell them that DD hadn't provoked anything.

Still, the barracuda mom in me is riled, and I want to kick this kid in
the
behind. She's been in my house before, and although she seemed a little
more
angry than most kids, I had no idea that she's been pulling this kind of
garbage for a long time. I'm pretty upset with the school as well - some
ethnic slurs are okay and others aren't? Gee, that's fair. Not.

Rant off. I need to conserve all my ranting skills for tomorrow.

Kathy N-V

I am right there with you Kathy. I haven't experienced any of this yet with
Kyle, but I am so right there with you. I would be ripping this principle a
new a$$ for the decision that they have to back down. Thats totally
unacceptable that the "N" word gets 5 days suspension but that taunting
someone repeatedly by calling them a Nazi and so on doesn't get a damned
thing as punishment. I have read your stories and what not enough to agree
with Starlia and VJ that you will be a thorn in their side until they fix
this.

Rest well tonight...Give em all you got tomorrow! Good luck to you, your
DH, and your DD too.

Marissa


"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
I got a call from DD's principal today, wanting to warn me that DD was
going
to be very angry coming home today, and rightfully so. The principal said
that DD was entirely in the right, but the school rules say that if two
kids
are arguing, both need to go to the office and get a "talking to." Once I
heard the details, I was shaking with anger, and I understood why DD was
so
upset.

My Opa was in a concentration camp during WWII. We are incredibly lucky
to
have had him return, and are inordinately sensitive to anyone who equates
all
Germans with Nazis. That isn't true, it's never been true, and it's
incredibly hurtful and offensive to even suggest it.

One girl in DD's class has been calling DD a Nazi, "Mrs. Hitler," and "J*w
Killer" for several weeks. She keeps taunting DD to say "the N word" in
return, because all the kids know that saying that word will get you
suspended. (The girl is African American, and has goaded other children
into
calling her that word before. Then she sits back and laughs when they get
five days suspension, which pretty much guarantees you will fail all your
courses that term, since you get five days worth of zeroes for all your
classes)

Apparently, the girl got careless today, and a teacher overheard the girl
saying her evil stuff and DD using the F word. Both kids got sent to the
office to visit the principal. The principal listened to both of their
stories, and agreed with DD that one ethnic slur is as bad as the other,
and
also agreed with DD's argument that it's not fair to punish for one "N"
word
and not another. The other girl denied everything, and claimed the teacher
was lying when he reported the event as DD had told it. (BTW, DD had to
apologize for using the F word. The other child didn't apologize for her
part in the dispute)

The principal called me and the other child's mother. The other mom got
all
huffy and claimed that the two words are not even remotely equal, and her
daughter had better not be punished. The principal told me that the
school
is going to have to back down, because they cannot afford a racial
incident.
I am not satisfied with that decision, and DH and I are meeting with the
principal to discuss it. If I have to go all the way up the food chain
with
this one, I will do so in a heartbeat.

I've always told DD that the "N word" is something that no decent person
would say, and racial insults aren't DD's style, anyway. (I'm not so
deluded
as to think my kid is Miss Perfect. She says other rotten things, but
racial
stuff isn't like her.) There are so many kids of all races in her school
that most of the kids are practically color blind. I was really proud of
DD's classmates, though - they went to the teacher and then the principal
to
tell them that DD hadn't provoked anything.

Still, the barracuda mom in me is riled, and I want to kick this kid in
the
behind. She's been in my house before, and although she seemed a little
more
angry than most kids, I had no idea that she's been pulling this kind of
garbage for a long time. I'm pretty upset with the school as well - some
ethnic slurs are okay and others aren't? Gee, that's fair. Not.

Rant off. I need to conserve all my ranting skills for tomorrow.

Kathy N-V

Good luck. I agree with you, and my opinion is worth a lot!! LOL The other
kid does sound very angry.
KathyH

You are such a good Mom.
"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
I got a call from DD's principal today, wanting to warn me that DD was
going
to be very angry coming home today, and rightfully so. The principal said
that DD was entirely in the right, but the school rules say that if two
kids
are arguing, both need to go to the office and get a "talking to." Once I
heard the details, I was shaking with anger, and I understood why DD was
so
upset.

My Opa was in a concentration camp during WWII. We are incredibly lucky
to
have had him return, and are inordinately sensitive to anyone who equates
all
Germans with Nazis. That isn't true, it's never been true, and it's
incredibly hurtful and offensive to even suggest it.

One girl in DD's class has been calling DD a Nazi, "Mrs. Hitler," and "J*w
Killer" for several weeks. She keeps taunting DD to say "the N word" in
return, because all the kids know that saying that word will get you
suspended. (The girl is African American, and has goaded other children
into
calling her that word before. Then she sits back and laughs when they get
five days suspension, which pretty much guarantees you will fail all your
courses that term, since you get five days worth of zeroes for all your
classes)

Apparently, the girl got careless today, and a teacher overheard the girl
saying her evil stuff and DD using the F word. Both kids got sent to the
office to visit the principal. The principal listened to both of their
stories, and agreed with DD that one ethnic slur is as bad as the other,
and
also agreed with DD's argument that it's not fair to punish for one "N"
word
and not another. The other girl denied everything, and claimed the teacher
was lying when he reported the event as DD had told it. (BTW, DD had to
apologize for using the F word. The other child didn't apologize for her
part in the dispute)

The principal called me and the other child's mother. The other mom got
all
huffy and claimed that the two words are not even remotely equal, and her
daughter had better not be punished. The principal told me that the
school
is going to have to back down, because they cannot afford a racial
incident.
I am not satisfied with that decision, and DH and I are meeting with the
principal to discuss it. If I have to go all the way up the food chain
with
this one, I will do so in a heartbeat.

I've always told DD that the "N word" is something that no decent person
would say, and racial insults aren't DD's style, anyway. (I'm not so
deluded
as to think my kid is Miss Perfect. She says other rotten things, but
racial
stuff isn't like her.) There are so many kids of all races in her school
that most of the kids are practically color blind. I was really proud of
DD's classmates, though - they went to the teacher and then the principal
to
tell them that DD hadn't provoked anything.

Still, the barracuda mom in me is riled, and I want to kick this kid in
the
behind. She's been in my house before, and although she seemed a little
more
angry than most kids, I had no idea that she's been pulling this kind of
garbage for a long time. I'm pretty upset with the school as well - some
ethnic slurs are okay and others aren't? Gee, that's fair. Not.

Rant off. I need to conserve all my ranting skills for tomorrow.

Kathy N-V

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:24:36 -0400, Kathy N-V wrote:

All the best with this one Kathy...

I actually went around to one parents home to sort out a few bullying
issues my DD and another girl were having at school.. Racial also.. but
what they call Reverse Racism.. Actually worked out real fine!! Mind you
I was nervous as h*ll turning up there, but the school wasn't doing
anything what with all their PCness!!

Go Girl!! is all I can say really..

And I have done a huge amount of reading on WWI and WWII and that girl
needs to get an education on the German front! What Hitler did to a lot
of his countrymen was appalling! Not just to Jews and religious
minorities either..

Really, we are all from the same race.. The human race and the sooner
everyone understands we have the same feelings inside the better IMHO.

I'm sure you'll sort it out, Kathy.

Mavis

but remember - bullying was what caused Columbine and several
incidents like it. tolerating the bullying is flat-out wrong - but
kids are sneaky and find all kinds of ways to keep doing it.

I TOTALLY agree! We had one incident at DD's PA school just before Columbine
happened. I was scheduled to meet with the principal about it 2 days after.
Mind you, I really LIKED that principal. But he started out with "I've met
with your DD's teachers and after school supervisors, and they feel she's
over-sensitive about teasing and may have brought this on herself." I went
ballistic. He had a newspaper on his desk, with an article about Columbine,
and I told him point blank that I was pretty damned certain THAT principal
had spouted the same bull****. While DD may be sensitive (better than being
a callous brat), ignoring her pleas for help and telling her to suck up and
deal told the bullies that what they were doing was okay. Gah!

Within two years the school district aggressively changed its policy. You're
right, the nasty ones still find ways to act out. But I think many have
become more aware of acceptable behavior and proper responses to it, instead
of just accepting this as "kids will be kids." Here in AZ the policy has
been much more watchful for many years. I don't know why, but the teachers
are, in general, outstanding. There are still situations, obviously, and I
think you're right about "uniform response." However, even though I think K
was wronged in her situation, I'm still pleased that something was actually
DONE.

KarenK (who's soooo grateful she didn't go into teaching and thinks all
teachers get automatic points towards sainthood)

"vj" wrote in message
...
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ"
:

]DD has been called "too
]sensitive" for being upset by bullying, I sorta kinda like the zero
slant.
]BUT it's NOT fair, and sends and equally bad message IMO. Guilt by
]association, tolerating verbal bullying, and other things like that have
a
]heavier sense of "wrong" to me than caving in to the bullying when one's
]length of rope has been reached.

in general, i agree with you.
but remember - bullying was what caused Columbine and several
incidents like it. tolerating the bullying is flat-out wrong - but
kids are sneaky and find all kinds of ways to keep doing it.

it took me what felt like forever to convince Johnny that the teacher
NEVER sees the first incident - only the second - so if you swing in
self-defence, unless you've got a lot of brave witnesses, odds are
you're going to get nailed for it. in some schools, i think the
"automatic suspension" is to give the parties concerned time to cool
off. personally, i think they should be kept AT school - suspension
is too much like going home to play for my taste. making them spend
the entire school day in the same room with each other until they work
it out might be better.

i'm SO glad Jamie and Johnny are finally OUT of the Sacramento school
system!!!!!!!


-----------
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
newest creations: http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
-----------
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.

I'm pretty upset with the school as well - some
ethnic slurs are okay and others aren't? Gee, that's fair. Not.

No, it is not fair. Good luck with your stance on this Kathy. I will be
standing behind you as you help explain this to the school.

And kudos to your DD for seeing the unfairness. Hopefully her punishment will
help to educate someone else about this.

Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com

Sorry your daughter has to go through this, but you are right I would fight
to get this cleared up. We must learn to has tolerance for all people and
the other girl has to learn that she is as bad as any one calling her the N
word. Hope it works out and understanding between them occurs. Taking the
high road is always more difficult at time but always more honorable.
Roxan
"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
I got a call from DD's principal today, wanting to warn me that DD was
going
to be very angry coming home today, and rightfully so. The principal said
that DD was entirely in the right, but the school rules say that if two
kids
are arguing, both need to go to the office and get a "talking to." Once I
heard the details, I was shaking with anger, and I understood why DD was
so
upset.

My Opa was in a concentration camp during WWII. We are incredibly lucky
to
have had him return, and are inordinately sensitive to anyone who equates
all
Germans with Nazis. That isn't true, it's never been true, and it's
incredibly hurtful and offensive to even suggest it.

One girl in DD's class has been calling DD a Nazi, "Mrs. Hitler," and "J*w
Killer" for several weeks. She keeps taunting DD to say "the N word" in
return, because all the kids know that saying that word will get you
suspended. (The girl is African American, and has goaded other children
into
calling her that word before. Then she sits back and laughs when they get
five days suspension, which pretty much guarantees you will fail all your
courses that term, since you get five days worth of zeroes for all your
classes)

Apparently, the girl got careless today, and a teacher overheard the girl
saying her evil stuff and DD using the F word. Both kids got sent to the
office to visit the principal. The principal listened to both of their
stories, and agreed with DD that one ethnic slur is as bad as the other,
and
also agreed with DD's argument that it's not fair to punish for one "N"
word
and not another. The other girl denied everything, and claimed the teacher
was lying when he reported the event as DD had told it. (BTW, DD had to
apologize for using the F word. The other child didn't apologize for her
part in the dispute)

The principal called me and the other child's mother. The other mom got
all
huffy and claimed that the two words are not even remotely equal, and her
daughter had better not be punished. The principal told me that the
school
is going to have to back down, because they cannot afford a racial
incident.
I am not satisfied with that decision, and DH and I are meeting with the
principal to discuss it. If I have to go all the way up the food chain
with
this one, I will do so in a heartbeat.

I've always told DD that the "N word" is something that no decent person
would say, and racial insults aren't DD's style, anyway. (I'm not so
deluded
as to think my kid is Miss Perfect. She says other rotten things, but
racial
stuff isn't like her.) There are so many kids of all races in her school
that most of the kids are practically color blind. I was really proud of
DD's classmates, though - they went to the teacher and then the principal
to
tell them that DD hadn't provoked anything.

Still, the barracuda mom in me is riled, and I want to kick this kid in
the
behind. She's been in my house before, and although she seemed a little
more
angry than most kids, I had no idea that she's been pulling this kind of
garbage for a long time. I'm pretty upset with the school as well - some
ethnic slurs are okay and others aren't? Gee, that's fair. Not.

Rant off. I need to conserve all my ranting skills for tomorrow.

Kathy N-V

In article ,
says...

That's when I found out what precipitated the argument: the other girl
wanted to sit at DD's lunch table, and DD was saving the only empty seat for
a friend. The other girl became enraged, and called DD "an "F-ing" fat pig."
(DD has recently lost a ton of weight and looks wonderful, but is very
sensitive about weight comments)

My darling then responded, "I might be fat, but I can diet. You'll always be
an "f-ing" assh*le, no matter what you do."

Told you I know my kid isn't Miss Perfect. And that sort of comeback is my
daughter, 100%. Racial catcalls, no. Snappy and rude comebacks, absolutely.
She is her mother's daughter.

And has obviously been reading history -- variations on that comment have been
attributed to both Winston Churchill and W.C. Fields. But that doesn't mean it
isn't still a good comeback!

Celine

--
Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

Still, the barracuda mom in me is riled, and I want to kick this kid in the
behind. She's been in my house before, and although she seemed a little more
angry than most kids, I had no idea that she's been pulling this kind of
garbage for a long time.

What a little ****! It also sounds like she learned to be angry at home.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html