VERY OT !!! RCTN member seeking religious knowledge

Recently (January ) we lost a whole crew of a C140 (Hercules) aircraft in
Iraq the whole base and village (more than 3000 people ) felt the loss .
news reports where relayed throughout the UK (outlaws and family rang to
check DH wasn't involved) flowers and tributes where delivered continuously-
not just from locals- until very recently the repatriation of the remains
(what little they where) and all the memorial services where fully televised
and many people where involved - a feeling of shock , and involvement
pervaded the whole local community but people where travelling from far
afield to leave tributes and if you mentioned where you where from ,
inevitably your hand was shook and you where told that ' we understand' from
young and old alike . All the local schools had a minutes silence - even the
little ones had this explained to them and my son's college - 20 miles away
observed the silence too so we are a talking children from age 5 to 19 being
aware of the outcome of conflict.
Jan
"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I was 12 and my brother was 10, when Nixon resigned. My parents were
very politically aware, and because of that I was too. News was on
during dinner every night (our living room and dining room were a
combined area). My parents expected my brother and I to ask questions
and took the time to make sure we understood the answers.

Before that, I was well aware of the Vietnam War, of people dying,
children dying during that conflict. I remember the election in 1968
when I was just 6. I remember the cover of the Weekly Reader showing
the three candidates.

I think it's a mistake to assume that all children are ignorant of
current events, of politics or other happenings in the world. Yes,
some are kept sheltered from the world, others choose not to pay
attention to the news.

I didn't go on to be a history major, I doubt that every child who
grows up aware of current events does! That doesn't mean that children
today don't have the ability to care about both history and current
events tho!

We take our kids to museums, to historical sites, but also to zoos and
movies and broadway shows on occasion. It's our responsibility to try
to raise them to be well rounded adults eventually, I can only hope
their current interest in the world continues!

I think there are a lot of people like you. I was raised in the same type
of environment . . . taken to museums, Greenfield Village, Ford Museum,
Cranbrook (art), Detroit Metropolitan (we didn't travel that far).
Mostly, though, adults didn't talk much about the war. I heard stories of
rationing, lack of refrigeration. I heard lots of stories about the
depression. All those stories had an enormous impact on my life and how I
addressed life in general.

I didn't really get interested in history until much later in life,
however.

And I have really only been speculating, from what I see/hear in general,
that memorials have little meaning a generation or two out from the event,
unless you are personally tied to it or are a history buff.

Some have offered that those in other countries seem to be more involved.
That might be true, also, in parts of the U.S.

It's just a general feeling I have, and anecdotal evidence to the contrary
doesn't make me feel any differently about life in general here in the
U.S. Later generations - in the main - won't care or pay much attention
to a lot of these memorials.

As an illustration, people put up crosses on highways to draw attention to
a loved one's traffic death. Thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of
cars pass by every day. How many do you think actually notice? And of
those who do, how many actually care? As I said, I'm probably just a
pessimist. :-)

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com

"Lucretia Borgia" wrote

I was working at CBC television during Watergate. Something about my
voice - the switchboard (yes there really were humans who answered
telephones in those days) always put 'difficult' callers through to me
so I could - in their words -"freeze" them out.

There were more irate calls during the televising of Watergate than
any other time because it knocked out Edge of Night lol Try and
explain to a local Halifax soap opera fiend that we had nothing to do
with the airing, or non airing,of Edge of Night due to Watergate
Hearings.

It was a hard job, but I undertook it lololol

Bad karma alert--you deserve to have Corrie preempted for a Steven Harper
press conference.
Dawne

We have an interesting event going on at the moment relating to Virginian
History (Jamestown in particular) Apparently they have discovered what they
think are the remains of one Bartholomew Godnold in Jamestown, and over here
they are exhuming his sister from a nearby church with a view to taking some
of her DNA from a tooth so it can be taken over there and compared with the
DNA from the remains they have found.

He used to own Otley Hall, which, quite coincidentally, is my current
project I`m working on. He sailed over to Virginia in the Godspeed to set up
one of the first settlements in Virginia. In fact he got there before the
Mayflower. I understand that Martha`s vineyard is named after his baby
daughter who died on the trip.

Also co-incidentally there is a website up only today about it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/dont_mi.../gosnold.shtml

Another one is
http://www.suffolkhistorichouses.org...tley-hall.html They both
have nice photos of the hall, which is a beautiful old building - John
attended a couple of conferences there some years ago, and brought back a
sketch of it which we still have in our dining-room.

The replica of his ship, the Godspeed is in Jamestown still, having sailed
from here many years ago. John is one of their "honorary captains" for the
assistance he gave to it and the crew when it stopped at Felixstowe!

There is a Gosnold Inn in Maine, I just discovered

Pat P

wrote in message
oups.com...


Dianne Lewandowski wrote:
Dr. Brat wrote:
I disagree, Dianne.

Call me a pessimist. :-) I think a few people get charged up about
history. But I think, in the main, the young don't connect to events
that happened beyond their intimate knowledge.

Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com]


Living as I do surrounded by historical sites from the Civil War and
Revolutionary Wars I can report that my kids actually enjoy visiting
these sites. They especially liked Mount Vernon and the Monuments in
DC (Haven't seen the WWII one yet tho).

Oldest just got a perfect score of 600/600 on her world history S.O.L.
(Standards of Learning, the Virginia statewide test which is basically
equivalent to a final exam). She wants to be an author, and enjoys
using historical events to develop her characters.

When middle daughter had her People to People trip to the UK last year
she found the historical sites interesting, she loved the Tower of
London for instance.

I can only speak for my kids, maybe it's genetic, because I love
history too, but they seem to connect with history. Perhaps all hope
is not lost for the next generation?

Caryn

I think I would prefer to see a marker, such as Sheena talks of, rather
than the tacky looking bunches of plastic flowers and deflated balloons.
I know they were put there with all sincerity, but rain, hot weather and
time, diminishes the sadness, and tends to push me towards annoyance. It
is cary when you see several on the same stretch of road!

Gillian

Lucretia Borgia wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:26:21 -0500, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:



As an illustration, people put up crosses on highways to draw attention
to a loved one's traffic death. Thousands (perhaps tens of thousands)
of cars pass by every day. How many do you think actually notice? And
of those who do, how many actually care? As I said, I'm probably just a
pessimist. :-)

Dianne



I really care when I see those crosses. The crosses here are placed
by MADD "Mothers Against Drunk Drivers" and there are too many for my
liking. When I see them, sometimes more than one in the same spot, I
think something very crude and it makes a mark with me.

Karen C - California had some very interesting
things to say about Ot caring about memorials was VERY OT !!!
RCTN member seeking religious knowledge:

Mostly, you're right. There's the occasional History major who cares,
but I know several people who were age 5-10 at the time of Watergate who
seem to have no concept of what I'm talking about. And they *lived*
through it.

I was about five at the time, and still about four or five years from
caring about much of anything outside my own immediate life (the first
BIG news story I remember paying attention to was Jonestown).

--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

Pat EAXStitch wrote:

There is a Gosnold Inn in Maine, I just discovered

There is a whole area in Orleans, MA (on Cape Cod) named for Gosnold,
who explored much of Pleasant Bay.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Seanette Blaylock wrote:

Karen C - California had some very interesting
things to say about Ot caring about memorials was VERY OT !!!
RCTN member seeking religious knowledge:


Mostly, you're right. There's the occasional History major who cares,
but I know several people who were age 5-10 at the time of Watergate who
seem to have no concept of what I'm talking about. And they *lived*
through it.


I was about five at the time, and still about four or five years from
caring about much of anything outside my own immediate life (the first
BIG news story I remember paying attention to was Jonestown).

Yes, dear, but when I said "Watergate", you at least knew it connected
to Nixon. YOU paid attention in American History.

--
Karen C - California
Finished 5/31/05 - Stars of Merlin wedding sampler

WIP: 50th Anniversary sampler for my parents, July birthstone
LTR: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn,
Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe

Paralegal - Writer - Editor - Researcher
http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/KMC.html
blogging at http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/

Thank you Brenda , i hesitated to answer , the Obvious thing , that
children will remember General Traumatic events , if they were somehow
close or exposed to any thing related to the event,, I assure you
Karen That ALL 5-10 years on 9/11 will remember this ALL their Lives.
mirjam

With all Due respect , Watergate was a Moral trauma for many people in
Usa , but it didn`t leave Orphans or widows or Wounded people...
I thinkl you are using the Wrong comparisons. Not every `Historical`
event has the same Impact on memory.
And of course it also dependes which `side` of the event you are.
If your Family is ammongst those who lost something , you reemmber it
different than if your family was just a bystander , or belonged to
those who initaited and/or gained [ in anyway] from the event.

I fear that Dianne is right, that 50 years from now, when the last adult
survivors of OKC and 9/11 are gone, the only people who will know are
those who grew up hearing "we lost Aunt Judy on 9/11", though they may
not care, since they never *met* Aunt Judy.
I see a bit more information than you, about the effects of Traumatic
Losses in Families, i assure you that even 60 years from now, families
who have lost a member will have all kinds of events where it will
come up, it will haunt many people for years. Because those affected ,
willing or not will raise their children in a different way, than
those who haven`t been affected.
I'm glad people like Pat are archiving their experiences here for
posterity. Maybe in 2205, some kid will be writing about Ancient
History, and reading what real people remember -- not just the sanitized
history book version -- will make it more real to him.
Historical research nowadys is working /recording Personal History.
Group Histories have been recorded, and now all over the
establishments are looking for the personal story.
I am very impressed that you are glad that mrs PP , does it, since i
recall clearly, several `unpolite` remarks you made to me , about My
doing the same thing.
All the war pictures in my history textbooks showed them standing in the
middle of the vast openness. It left you with the notion that they were
fighting in the middle of nowhere. Then one day, I was watching
something on TV, and the soldiers walked a little way down the road to
an ages-old local business to buy something, and I realized that they
did NOT fight the entire war out in the boonies ... there were locals
who had battles on their front lawn. Never mentioned in the textbooks
to what extent the locals were involved. Not a word about Little Baby
Doe who was killed by a stray bullet through his crib; we were led to
believe that only soldiers died, that the battles were on the far side
of beyond where there were no civilians for miles around.
I am amazed at this story , since at the time you told an extensive
story about your Grandparents [esp your grandma] being involved as
civilians in WW2 , the hunger they suffered etc.... .Thus even if the
above texts you read speaks about another war Why would you assume
such a thing ? .
As I became a teenager and they were willing to talk about such things
in front of me,
I know many people didn`t want to speak , but it is researched that
many stories or fragments come through anyway , even before there is
willingness and Ability [psychological] to talk and tell . Esp people
who suffered Hunger,,, have many signs like always keeping stored
foods, or a Ready packed bag , or stuffing the kids and making them
eat the last crumble of the bread. etc...

But, there again, I don't see
these stories living on more than a generation after the principals.
You will be surprised at how many people nowadays record and give
evidense , not only to their own memories , but also to the stories
they heard from their parents. And the most important Help is that
people write as many sides to every story, as they can .
Amos Oz , the writer , has written now his Family`s History, the power
of the book lies in his writing events from as many sides as he could.
Father `s sides , mother`s sides Aunts` side,,, and you read the same
events severl times , every time from a different point of view...
this is the most Possible way to get as close to the event as one can.

I tottaly disagree with you about not rememabering, Family stories +
proper Documentation will prevail .
mirjam

A grown up man i know just lost his mother , when he arranged her
papers , he was schocked to see , that his mother had a Former Family
Husband and 3 kids he never heard about . [All murdered in the
Holocaust]. He wanted to know more about that and started a long
search. Found more more details, and now is considering to inscribe
those name on the Stone of his mother`s grave. feeling that this way
he does an old Jewish Commandment of Remembering.
We had long discussions about it. He claims that deep down he knew
there was a secret in his mother`s life, and that by doing this he
will make a small tiny `Correction`. After doing it he felt better,
about many things.

I have mentioned before that Several years ago i saw a BBC program
were a group of people who lost somebody in their family in a Tragic
event, spoke about it ,,, [ the furthest was a woman who`s great great
Grandfather was murdered 4 generations ] , and these were people who
lost One family member , The all said it affected their families, for
life.

Take in Usa , the population whose families were slaves, it still
affects their lives , their economical status, and many social
phenomenas until today. This is maybe an example you should look for,
to understand about How Traumas can efffect and be remembered in later
generations. Try to see how the familires of Slave holders remember [
or rather don`t ] it now ? in comparison with those whose families
were slaves.