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  #31  
Old December 27th 04, 07:30 PM
Neil Marsh
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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 04:47:32 GMT, vj wrote:

i REALLY don't want to go the route of an entire respirator if i can
help it. everything i've ever seen would make me so uncomfortable i'd
never be able to work at all - and i'd have to give up metalsmithing
entirely. that's why i was trying to find a mask i could wear. even
they aren't comfortable, but it would at least keep the 'particle
inhalation' down.


Just to make sure we're using the same terminology - as I'm
using the words, "respirator"= half or quarter-face (nose and mouth)
and "mask" = full-face (as in "gas mask"). I'm not sure if this is
how the folks who make 'em and sell 'em distinguish them.

I just looked at the current Rio tools & equipment catalog.
They're calling all types, from the disposable 20-to-a-box cheapies to
the $90 full-face wear-it-to-the-crater-of-Mt St Helens model
"respirators." See pp 452-453.

Cheers!
Neil
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  #32  
Old December 28th 04, 06:46 AM
Ted Frater
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vj wrote:
vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "Peter W.. Rowe,"
:

]So use a decent mask.

what IS a decent mask? i know it's probably been mentioned somewhere
before, but i seldom have time to search newsgroups.

right now, every mask i try to wear means i end up with foggy glasses
and can't see [in addition to being uncomfortable enough to be
completely distracting!] i seem to need to wear SOMETHING, because i
come home from the shop every night with my nose full of silver dust.
i wear a face shield at the torch/centrifuge, but i'd really like to
find something relatively effective/comfortable to wear at the bench.


Without a picture of your w/shop, layout or size, its difficult to
advise the best answer to your dust problem.
I think your looking at the wrong solution, by thinking about a face
mask to prevent dust getting everywhere it shouldnt. Of couse a proper
inflated cuff type well fitted with the correct filter element will be
safe but quite impractical for daily wear. the cheap ones sold in packs
of 20 are only meant for large particles. A complete waste of time in my
view.
Imention this as we were asked a couple of years ago to design and
build for a commercial firm near here a proper large scale( 700cub ft a
min) dust handling and filtration system , this had to meet health ans
safty requirements as well as employers liability responsibilities.
An ordinary household vacumn cleaner is better than nothing but isnt
designed to do what you want apart from being noisy. It pulls a high
vacumn but a relatively low volume of air.
you need the opposite. A low vacumn high volume fan thats
quiet.placed the otherside of the process from you thats making the
dust so its pulling the particles away from you.
This is the normal commercial polishing/ sanding /grinding setup in
industrial silver/ metal finishing factories.
If your in your workshop every day its one of the 1st things you need to
install and switch on everytime your making dust.
you need to also consider the enviromental issues as if your in an urban
area you cant just extract the dusty air into the outside. If your
extracting air from your work area you need to replace it with clean air
from somewhere. So filtration my be also be something you need to consider.
Proper and safe working conditions need to be properly thought through
and constructed. Especially if you have other persons working in your lab.
The last thing you or your helpers want is a persistent cough , then an
xray and then find youve damaged lungs.
theres a particular particle size thats especially dangerous its those
that are the same size as the internal dia of your lung tubules. These
cant be coughed up, they stick and stay there..
smaller get coughed up and larger dont get that far.
Do it properly and youll never regret it.





..

  #33  
Old December 28th 04, 06:46 AM
vj
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vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from Neil Marsh
:

]Just to make sure we're using the same terminology - as I'm
]using the words, "respirator"= half or quarter-face (nose and mouth)
]and "mask" = full-face (as in "gas mask"). I'm not sure if this is
]how the folks who make 'em and sell 'em distinguish them.

AH! i was using exactly the opposite terminology!
we solved a big chunk of the problem today, by simply replacing the
colored shield on the face shield i use when i'm melting metal and
replacing it with a brand new clear one. that means **most** of the
dust/particles hit the shield and not my nose/face. and it's big
enough i can wear my glasses, and doesn't fog. i'll go looking to
replace the particle masks tomorrow, because the shield won't work
against the investment powder.

] I just looked at the current Rio tools & equipment catalog.
]They're calling all types, from the disposable 20-to-a-box cheapies to
]the $90 full-face wear-it-to-the-crater-of-Mt St Helens model
]"respirators." See pp 452-453.

good grief! no wonder i was confused! the only thing *i* ever called
a respirator had it's own air source, etc.!

thanks for the help!

--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
(Metalsmithing) http://www.vickijean.com/metalsmithing/index.html
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries,
but what ideas he believes. -- Jeff Jordan
  #34  
Old December 29th 04, 09:04 AM
vj
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vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from Ted Frater
:

]Without a picture of your w/shop, layout or size, its difficult to
]advise the best answer to your dust problem.

http://www.vickijean.com/the_lab.html

]I think your looking at the wrong solution, by thinking about a face
]mask to prevent dust getting everywhere it shouldnt.

that could be. it's why i asked the question - to pull in differing
views.

]you need the opposite. A low vacumn high volume fan thats
]quiet.placed the otherside of the process from you thats making the
]dust so its pulling the particles away from you.
]This is the normal commercial polishing/ sanding /grinding setup in
]industrial silver/ metal finishing factories.

okay - that makes sense. i suppose it might be possible to use the
system already on the polishers. we talked about it today. i've come
up with a temporary fix, but we're looking at more permanent ones.
the man i'm apprenticing to has actually done quite a good job already
of most of it.

]The last thing you or your helpers want is a persistent cough , then an
]xray and then find youve damaged lungs.

agreed.

] theres a particular particle size thats especially dangerous its those
]that are the same size as the internal dia of your lung tubules. These
]cant be coughed up, they stick and stay there..
] smaller get coughed up and larger dont get that far.
]Do it properly and youll never regret it.

since he retired as a pharmacist, his medical knowledge is pretty
thorough in most respects, and he's quite an authority in some areas.
so we're working on it.
thanks for the suggestions. gives me more to think about!

--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
(Metalsmithing) http://www.vickijean.com/metalsmithing/index.html
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries,
but what ideas he believes. -- Jeff Jordan
  #35  
Old December 30th 04, 10:28 AM
C. Gates
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vj wrote:

good grief! no wonder i was confused! the only thing *i* ever called
a respirator had it's own air source, etc.!

thanks for the help!


As this thread evolves, it looks like a lot of us are talking about
different things, not just dust particles, but also splashes from melted
metal. I remember reading that the regular buffing station already had
a filtration system, and the problem was with the Foredom, with
drilling, etc. And for that, with large particle size, I still maintain
that a small collection area with a strong suction is needed.

But in retrospect, it ocurred to me that if somebody is inhaling metal
particles from drilling with a Foredom or Dremel at a workbench, then
their face has to be very close to the working area -- so close that EYE
PROTECTION is perhaps even more important than respiratory protection.



  #36  
Old December 31st 04, 09:20 AM
vj
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vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "C. Gates"
:

]But in retrospect, it ocurred to me that if somebody is inhaling metal
]particles from drilling with a Foredom or Dremel at a workbench, then
]their face has to be very close to the working area -- so close that EYE
]PROTECTION is perhaps even more important than respiratory protection.

true.
i'm very, very nearsighted.
but my son is an optician and made me a very good pair of prescription
safety glasses, so i've covered that problem. and they've already
paid for themselves several times over.

most of the *crap* that winds up being 'breathed in' seems to be too
large to cause a problem long-term. but i am wearing the face shield
now when using the hand-held grinder -- and it's helping a lot.


--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com/new.html
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
bottom line, if your cat doesn't act strange, eccentric, inexplicable
or some other varient of same, you've messed up and gotten a dog. --
Izunya -- Callahans
 




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