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#11
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
WoolyGooly wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 09:48:22 -0700, suzee wrote: I just really get annoyed when How To directions for it say `this CO makes a row of knitting so you should start your pattern on the WS row' or something to that effect. This is so not true Why isn't it true? If I design a sweater pattern I might say: "Cast on 300 using the long-tail method. Next row is a right-side row." Why would I do that? I want the purl bumps inherent in a long-tail cast-on to be a design element. It isn't true or untrue - it's how I designed the sweater. As I said, an experienced knitter can decide how to incorporate the bumps into the pattern, but a newbie may not understand that. But very few patterns even mention things like which CO to use and what to do on the first row. That's a fault of the pattern designer and/or the pattern editor and has nothing to do with the cast-on. The designer's job is to produce a garment with some sort of instructions for reproducing same; the editor's job is to turn the designer's chicken-scratch into instructions usable by your average "must have a pattern to follow" knitter. If the instructions are unclear or the knitter inexperienced then confusion will ensue, but don't blame the cast-on for that. I don't blame the cast on method at all, just the instructions for doing it. sue |
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#12
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
WoolyGooly wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2007 16:23:32 -0700, suzee wrote: What VP said. Though I take exception to the part about creating an already knitted row. It's not the same size as a regular row (as if you were to do a backwards loop CO, then purl the first row), and shouldn't be counted as one. Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. Eventually you work several inches (or feet, if you're casting on something big like an afghan) out of the cast-on edge and into the tail. With practice and concentration one's long-tail cast-on row can in fact be made at exactly the same gauge as the rest of the project. Interesting... I've been using it for years and years and find that it's much smaller than the rest of my knitting. If I were to use much smaller needles than I do, it may be closer to the same gauge. sue |
#13
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
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#14
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
Madelaine wrote:
suzee wrote: WoolyGooly wrote: On Sun, 13 May 2007 16:23:32 -0700, suzee wrote: What VP said. Though I take exception to the part about creating an already knitted row. It's not the same size as a regular row (as if you were to do a backwards loop CO, then purl the first row), and shouldn't be counted as one. Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. Eventually you work several inches (or feet, if you're casting on something big like an afghan) out of the cast-on edge and into the tail. With practice and concentration one's long-tail cast-on row can in fact be made at exactly the same gauge as the rest of the project. Interesting... I've been using it for years and years and find that it's much smaller than the rest of my knitting. If I were to use much smaller needles than I do, it may be closer to the same gauge. sue Perhaps you should cast on with larger needles than you need and then change? Then the CO would be much too loose. I'm not talking about the stitches it produces, but the actual CO where the loops tighten up around the stitches. Maybe Wooly didn't mean that and I misunderstood. Where she originally wrote: Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. I thought she meant that the thumb loop in a longtail that is similar to the backwards loop CO could be made the same gauge, but I think now she didn't. sue |
#15
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
On Mon, 14 May 2007 13:39:52 -0700, suzee wrote:
Perhaps you should cast on with larger needles than you need and then change? Then the CO would be much too loose. I'm not talking about the stitches it produces, but the actual CO where the loops tighten up around the stitches. Maybe Wooly didn't mean that and I misunderstood. Where she originally wrote: Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. I thought she meant that the thumb loop in a longtail that is similar to the backwards loop CO could be made the same gauge, but I think now she didn't. sue No, I meant what I said: a backwards loop cast on produces a narrower, tighter cast-on than a long-tail due to the mechanics of the first row of knitting. The backwards loop produces a bunch of slack after each loop is knitted off; the knitter can either work the slack back into the knitting or work it out altogether. A long-tail cast-on avoids this problem because one is simultaneously casting up the loops *and* knitting them. One has much better control over the finished size of the foundation loops as a result. |
#16
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
"WoolyGooly" wrote in message ... Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. I must be doing the backward loop wrong or ??? differently. I find with mine, there is so much loose stuff that I have no trouble with a less flexible edge. I've only just recently tried the backward loop on socks and found it to be fine (once I got used to it). I dunno, I guess I'd have to use it a few more times to be able to have much of an opinion on it. Any thoughts? Shelagh |
#17
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
I do not think that there is a sample of a backward loop cast on in my
house. They have all been either frogged or tossed. I can not do a backward loop cast on that I like. Aaron "Shillelagh" wrote in message ... "WoolyGooly" wrote in message ... Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. I must be doing the backward loop wrong or ??? differently. I find with mine, there is so much loose stuff that I have no trouble with a less flexible edge. I've only just recently tried the backward loop on socks and found it to be fine (once I got used to it). I dunno, I guess I'd have to use it a few more times to be able to have much of an opinion on it. Any thoughts? Shelagh |
#18
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
I use a long-tail for several reasons. One is that I'm very picky
about which side of the cast-on is the front row. With some patterns one will look better, and with another pattern the other will look better. And I always keep consistent so the pieces all match at the bottom. Second, it drives me crazy to run out of yarn as I'm casting on, and this prevents that problem. Finally, I like having the extra tail! I try to leave about 3 feet extra, and then I just coil it up loosely and hold it out of the way with a safety pin. That gives me my thread for the sewing-up! |
#19
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Long Tail Cast On --- WHY??
WoolyGooly wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 13:39:52 -0700, suzee wrote: Perhaps you should cast on with larger needles than you need and then change? Then the CO would be much too loose. I'm not talking about the stitches it produces, but the actual CO where the loops tighten up around the stitches. Maybe Wooly didn't mean that and I misunderstood. Where she originally wrote: Were you to make a backward loop cast on and then knit those loops you'd end up with a smaller (in the sense of less wide as well as tighter), less-flexible edge than were you to make a "standard" long-tail cast-on. Why? Because as you knit the loops the loops tighten up, you take the slack up into the next loop, and the next, and the next as you work across the cast on. I thought she meant that the thumb loop in a longtail that is similar to the backwards loop CO could be made the same gauge, but I think now she didn't. sue No, I meant what I said: a backwards loop cast on produces a narrower, tighter cast-on than a long-tail due to the mechanics of the first row of knitting. The backwards loop produces a bunch of slack after each loop is knitted off; the knitter can either work the slack back into the knitting or work it out altogether. A long-tail cast-on avoids this problem because one is simultaneously casting up the loops *and* knitting them. One has much better control over the finished size of the foundation loops as a result. Okay, I misunderstood what you said. I've never trouble with the LT co tension either. sue |
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