Follow-up Story - Car Repair ripoff attempt

My comments from working for over 3 years in the parts industry are interspersed....

"Kathy N-V" wrote in message .com...

gentle snip

| The manager assured me that it was the Tribute, and that he personally had
| taken it for a ride after the mechanic pulled all four wheels and examined
| the brakes. Since the car screams to a stop, I didn't exactly believe him.
| I told him to look again and call me back.
|
| He didn't. Instead, he called DH on his cell phone and gave him a quote.
| For nearly $600 worth of work. DH stopped by, paid them for the quote, and
| brought it home to take a look. We sat over the kitchen table and laughed.
| If this place wants our business, they need to learn to be better liars.

To me, this sounds like a rather common thought that is prevalant in the auto industry..."Boobs = doesn't know squat
about cars = we can milk this for all its worth" Sad, sad, sad, but it happens more than people will admit.

|
| The quote was as follows (my comments are starred):
|
| Basic Front Brakes (Pads, semi-metallic) 114.99
| * not unreasonable, $39.99 for brake pads and
| $75 for labor. Bet that the price for brake pads will
| go up when they source them, though. It's a new
| model, and I've already priced the pads.

Not really that unreasonable IMO....*if* the brakes come with a lifetime warranty.

|
| Clean, Lube and Adjust Brakes 29.99
| * If you put in new brakes, why are you charging me
| $30 to blow air over them?

IMO, unreasonable charge, because when you take the calipers off, you normally wind up cleaning them anyway. Lube the
breaks?? Ummm, common sense dictates that you will *most likely* be adding brake fluid anyway. If they were repacking
the bearings, it would have said something otherwise (hopefully) and about the adjustment thing....really, disk brakes
(which I'm sure on that new of a car is 4 wheel disk) adjust themselves after they are put on the car and you pump the
brake pedal a couple times. Drum brakes (normally only found on the rear of vehicles nowadays) do need a little
tinkering after they are put on, but not $30 worth of tinkering.

|
| Flush Brake System
| 59.99
| * It's a brand new car, and the brake fluid needs to be
| bled as part of the replacement, but why does the system
| need to be "flushed?" the service manager couldn't
| tell my DH why this was on there. I've never heard of flushing a
| brake system unless the master or slave cylinders were damaged,
| and water or other contaminents got into the lines. That's not
| the case here.

If the service manager could not explain it, then he needs to ask the mechanics in the shop why they think this is
needed. I completely agree with the *only* need to flush the system is when the mc or sc are damaged. On that new of a
car, I find it hard to believe that this service is necessary. The brake system under normal conditions is a sealed
system. Getting water, dirt, or anything else in there is rather hard to do unless you have a hole in the system (that
would be noticed right away by spongey brakes) or take the MC cap off and leave it off (also noticed by spongey brakes),
or the car is old and has been awhile since the system was looked at.

|
| Fuel System Service 89.99
| * This one has me perplexed. The car has NO
| performance issues, and the car has had scheduled
| maintenance. Why would I pay $90 for a fuel filter,
| anyway?

Most manufacturers reccomend a fuel filter replacement yearly. I doubt that you have gotten a dirty tank of gas where
it would either clog or cause damage to your injectors (which is mega bucks to clean and/or replace), and a bottle of
injector cleaner sure as hell doesn't cost $90. I'd ask for a detailed explination of the reasoning behind this one if
you intend on having this work done. I also know, that with careful maintenance, you can usually get more than a year
out of one fuel filter (my current one has been on the truck for over 3 years), and if you needed a new filter, you
would have a marked decrease in power when you hit the gas, or a stutter/cough when you start the car. In other words,
you *will* know when you need one.

(P.S. I *have* seen (and sold) fuel filters go for that much money, but they are mostly on diesels and oddball cars.)

|
| Brake Service -70 Brake Rotors 238.00
| * A legitimate charge, mostly. Usually you can have your
| rotors resurfaced or "turned," one time; though some places
| won't do that - they'd rather make the money on selling new
| new rotors every time.

Very true about the turning. If you have good quality parts out of the factory, or good replacement parts off the
shelf, sometimes (but not always) you can get two turns out of a set. And yes, most places like this would rather make
money off of new rotors than turn the existing ones. If they *can't* be turned, I'd be asking a lot more questions, and
for proof. They have little calipers and books that show you the width of the rotor and the mfg specs on turning. Even
warps can be turned out to some degree (as well as deep grooves), the groves might not come completely out, but you can
get most of it if you are determined enough. In my experience turning rotors and drums, I tested in several places
because the customer might want you to just "take off the rough spots and leave the rest". Not really the safest thing
to do on the planet, but if you are really tight for money, its better than nothing I guess.

|
| Shop Supplies 11.82
| * I questioned this one and called the store. Shop
| supplies means things like paper towels, soap in
| restroom, etc. Yeah, like I'm gonna pay that.

Common thing that shops charge *BUT* if you are paying $75 bucks for labor, you would think that they would include shop
supplies in the labor charge (more or less a hidden charge) because a good 75% of labor charges does nothing more than
cover overhead...the other $25 normally goes to the mechanic (if they are being paid by the job, not the hour)


|
| Grand total with tax $562.17

IMO, asinine.

|
| ---------------
|
| Whoa. I called my usual parts supply place and sourced my brake pads and
| rotors. Then we went down the street to a friend's garage to see if he
| needed any work. We brought this "quote" with us. After the friend stopped
| laughing hysterically, he asked me what my brake pads were going to cost at
| the auto mechanic's supply store (not generally open to the public, but if
| you pay cash and don't ask lots of questions, they'll sell to you at close to
| shop prices. Oh yes, you need to know where it is - there's no sign, and
| they don't advertise).
|
| Ritchie, the friend, is doing the whole job: turning the rotors or
| replacement if the rotors are too thin, brake pads and a new master cylinder
| cover (it was recalled and will be installed for free). For $190 or so,
| depending on the cost of the rotors.

Sounds like a good, honest, mechanic (aren't too many of them around), and one that will let you inspect the old parts
at that. The ONLY person that I let work on my vehicle besides me, gives me a 15% discount on my labor, lets me bring
my own parts, and lets me watch as he fixes stuff. (this doesn't happen to often because I prefer to tinker on it
myself....bout the only thing that I won't do myself is my transmission, or if I just don't feel like doing it myself
and have the money to give to him to do it. If I ever need a bay to work on it myself, he lends me the use of one of
his to the tune of $10 an hour) I get to rootle through the old parts before we take them back to the store for exchange
or before they go into the scrap pile (I have just way too much fun in that scrap pile...I love to take things apart).
I am the *only* person that he does that for, mainly because he knows that *no one* else but the two of us touches my
truck, and while I was working in the parts house, I sent him several *tens of thousands* worth of work when he first
opened up his shop....most of the people that I sent to him are now his loyal customers.

Not everyone has the desire to work in a parts house the way that I did (most likely after we move to pennslyvania, I'll
get a job in a parts house to put me through nursing school lol), but there is nothing wrong with finding a friend that
is knowledgable, picking their brain and asking questions. Another route is to get a Haynes manual on your car (most
libraries have them, as well as most parts houses (some carry Chiltons, some carry Haynes, best to ask first) and most
parts houses are more than happy to special order your particular book in). My take on the Chiltons manual: Good book,
lots of info, lots of pictures, BUT very technical and they don't always include *every* step of the process....case in
point, my Chiltons "forgot" to mention that in order for me to change the heater core that I needed to discharge the a/c
before I could get the core out. I gave up and took the truck to my friend.
My take on the Haynes manual: Better than good book, better pictures, and not as confusing as the Chiltons. I always
recommend the Haynes over Chiltons to people that are trying their best to shade tree themselves to save a couple bucks.

If *any* of you want or need an opinion or advice on car repairs, feel free to contact me. I am one test away from
being ASE certified as a Parts Specalist, and yes, I have references if needed. One of them was my manager at one
point, and now one of my best friends. She won't lie for me (I think that it is physically impossible for her to lie),
and if you want me to ask her (she IS ASE certified btw) for her opinion, I'd be happy to do so. (BTW, its nearly
impossible to be a parts specalist without having hands on experience in the repair part of things.)



|
| I think I'll post the other price quote on my office wall for whenever I need
| a laugh.
|
| Kathy N-V

I have a couple of those too...as well as all the extremely humorous incidents of really stupid customers (I'm sorry,
but spraying carb cleaner into a running car after you have been warned not to and catching said car on fire, is stupid.
So is actually believing in "muffler bearings", "blinker fluid", and the classic "thermostat for a 72 Beetle")

|
| Obligatory Bead reference:

gently snipped again

| I'm taking pictures this evening, and I'll let you know when they hit the web
| site. BTW, there's a surprise for all you dragon lovers - watch for it.


Hurry up with the pics already!!! I wanna see!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

Hugs
Karlee in Kansas