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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be
interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little "book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested: http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/ I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out for. VP |
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
In the many years that i was lucky to recieve `Ariadne` , published by
my Great Uncle Elias Cohen . I read many articles about Dutch Knitting as well as Dutch embroidery. They were like their Neighbours over the Channel always a sea traveling nation ,,, with all the NEEDED clothing items. mirjam Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little "book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested: http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/ I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out for. VP |
#3
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and
felted to size? I know of traditions of socks that were felted; and, traditions of mittens that were felted and worn wet, but whole sweaters that were knit large and felted? The fellow who proposed this was a curator at a museum. The museum does not have any examples, and when I look at photos of fishermen from the same period that sailed out of a port only 100 miles from the subject port, I do not see ANY evidence of felting. Knitters and knitting shop owners in the area do not seem to be aware of such a tradition, but such traditions die fast. TIA Aaron "Vintage Purls" wrote in message ups.com... Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little "book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested: http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/ I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out for. VP |
#4
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
Why am i NOT surprised that a fellow proposed it ,,,,, ?
reaoning of life ways,,,, would be that some woolen items [sweaters socks etc,,,,,, were `felted` by the many years of use and washing ,,,, i don`t think any 'Dutch Person" knitttig will on purpose knit Bigger than needed, when materials were scarce ,,,,, mirjam wrote: Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and felted to size? I know of traditions of socks that were felted; and, traditions of mittens that were felted and worn wet, but whole sweaters that were knit large and felted? The fellow who proposed this was a curator at a museum. The museum does not have any examples, and when I look at photos of fishermen from the same period that sailed out of a port only 100 miles from the subject port, I do not see ANY evidence of felting. Knitters and knitting shop owners in the area do not seem to be aware of such a tradition, but such traditions die fast. TIA Aaron "Vintage Purls" wrote in message oups.com... Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little "book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested: http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/ I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out for. VP |
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and felted to size? van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and Spakenburg: "owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were "felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof. An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and windproof." (pages 39-40) A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles felt". I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic evidence exists for this reason. VP |
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
Many people that see my gansey have to be convinced that it is not felted.
They just assume that anything that tight MUST have been felted. Much of a seaman's / fisherman's duties involved heavy labor with the arms - rowing, hauling, furling sails.... One virtue of knitting is that it can accommodate motion. I wonder if felted material could accommodate the motion? I feel an experiment coming on! Aaron "Vintage Purls" wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote: Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and felted to size? van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and Spakenburg: "owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were "felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof. An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and windproof." (pages 39-40) A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles felt". I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic evidence exists for this reason. VP |
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
On Jul 11, 1:00 am, Vintage Purls wrote:
On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote: Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and felted to size? van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and Spakenburg: "owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were "felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof. An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and windproof." (pages 39-40) A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles felt". I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic evidence exists for this reason. VP However, I have found that historians, especially of the male persuasion, truly have no idea what women did when making clothing. Technology historians have come up with, and printed in their scholarly books, some really bad howlers. Like the one who thinks that, on a hand-loom, the shuttle traveled in front of the reed and beater. Like the many who have stated that cloth more than 30 inches wide required two weavers. Like the one who says that hats from Urumchi are proven to be knitted because they are made of short lengths of yarn. Like the many who believe that Arans, which of course have been made for centuries, were identifiable because the stitch patterns went by county or village. Elizabeth Wayland Barber, among others, has stated that women's work of past centuries was not documented. As a result, the male historian is at a disadvantage when he stares at a machine, or even the product, to determine exactly what was done. Heaven forfend that he should ask an expert, even a man currently in the textile business! Cece |
#8
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
Think of a fisherman's gansey as a capital investment in survival gear to
keep a worker alive while he works a high risk - high profit job in an extreme environment. The amount that they were willing to invest depended on their valuation of the worker's life. A certain amount of wool was needed to keep a fisherman warm. It could be knit small and tight, or it could be knit large and felted small. The amount of wool would be the same, all that changes is the manner of fabrication. If the only job your husband and son could get was fishing, how much effort would you put into providing them with garments that were warm enough to keep them alive? Their shares from fishing might be most of the family's income. If they freeze in their fishing dory, the family at home gets nothing. Then, how much effort does a wife and mother then put into the knitting that keeps her men alive? against a man's life, and years of income, a few ounces of wool and a few extra hours of knitting effort (or felting effort) are a worth while investment. Aaron "Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message ... Why am i NOT surprised that a fellow proposed it ,,,,, ? reaoning of life ways,,,, would be that some woolen items [sweaters socks etc,,,,,, were `felted` by the many years of use and washing ,,,, i don`t think any 'Dutch Person" knitttig will on purpose knit Bigger than needed, when materials were scarce ,,,,, mirjam wrote: Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and felted to size? I know of traditions of socks that were felted; and, traditions of mittens that were felted and worn wet, but whole sweaters that were knit large and felted? The fellow who proposed this was a curator at a museum. The museum does not have any examples, and when I look at photos of fishermen from the same period that sailed out of a port only 100 miles from the subject port, I do not see ANY evidence of felting. Knitters and knitting shop owners in the area do not seem to be aware of such a tradition, but such traditions die fast. TIA Aaron "Vintage Purls" wrote in message roups.com... Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little "book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested: http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/ I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out for. VP |
#9
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
Good!
At Louisburg, they have 3/4 of a million pages of documentation that they use for the details of the enactors lives. However, in that documentation there is more about the lace made by a few ladies to show that they had leisure time, than there is about all the knitting that kept the populace warm. (That is a cold and windy place. I mean really windy! They lived in drafty stone buildings. They wore wooden shoes. Do not try to tell me that they did not knit a lot of socks and mittens. Sure there is no wool on the ship's manifest, but there was a settlement around the corner that had an abundance of sheep, and fishing boats went out of Louisburg every day? They were French. Avoiding taxes is the French national hobby. They smuggled wool. Smugglers do not send reports of their activates to the King.) The time of the enactment was set in 1744. At that time, knitting sheaths were common in France and Britain. ( Louisburg was French, but many of the fishermen employed in the town had Scotch- Irish origins. But none of the enactors that were knitting the day I was there had ever touched an actual knitting sheath. Moreover, the artifact collection had never been reviewed by competent knitters for evidence of knitting implements. Later this summer, the collection of artifacts will be reviewed by the members of a Nova Scotia knitters guild for additional evidence of knitting implements. Given the fact that none of that guild's members actually use knitting sheaths on a regular basis, I do not think that they are adequately prepared to recognize all knitting implements. Aaron "Cece" wrote in message oups.com... On Jul 11, 1:00 am, Vintage Purls wrote: On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote: Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and felted to size? van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and Spakenburg: "owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were "felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof. An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and windproof." (pages 39-40) A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles felt". I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic evidence exists for this reason. VP However, I have found that historians, especially of the male persuasion, truly have no idea what women did when making clothing. Technology historians have come up with, and printed in their scholarly books, some really bad howlers. Like the one who thinks that, on a hand-loom, the shuttle traveled in front of the reed and beater. Like the many who have stated that cloth more than 30 inches wide required two weavers. Like the one who says that hats from Urumchi are proven to be knitted because they are made of short lengths of yarn. Like the many who believe that Arans, which of course have been made for centuries, were identifiable because the stitch patterns went by county or village. Elizabeth Wayland Barber, among others, has stated that women's work of past centuries was not documented. As a result, the male historian is at a disadvantage when he stares at a machine, or even the product, to determine exactly what was done. Heaven forfend that he should ask an expert, even a man currently in the textile business! Cece |
#10
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Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters
On Jul 12, 6:34 am, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
Many people that see my gansey have to be convinced that it is not felted. They just assume that anything that tight MUST have been felted. The felted sweaters in "Knitting from the Netherlands" don't look tight, they look felted. They look very thick and stiff. All of the studio photos show men in fine "fishermen's sweaters" that would have never seen a boat in their lives - these sweaters were for Sunday best. No one would have worn their work jersey for a formal portrait. The photos that show fishermen at work (of which there are many less for obvious reasons) show men in grubby, thick, chunky jerseys. van der Klift-Tellegen seems to have consulted local people in each area and asked for their recollections and photos. Although this can't be considered 100% reliable she does seem to avoid falling into the trap of repeating "mainstream" history and clearly attempted to discover the history herself from the practitioners (or their nearest decendents). VP |
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