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#31
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Mirjam - how are you?
On 1/1/09 3:54 PM, " wrote:
On Jan 1, 8:51*am, ellice wrote: On 12/31/08 6:37 PM, *"Pat P" wrote: wrote in message ... Lucretia http://www.honestreporting.com/a/15seconds.asp I haven`t seen you ever protest the Ongoing Rockets Shooting at civilians , children , hospitals etc on our side of the border , http://www.honestreporting.com/a/15seconds.asp Look at this and ask yourself How long YOU would have waited to stop it , Please notice that the Egyptian Government and the Palestinian President told the Hamas that they are to be balmaed because they were warned warned and warned to stop sending rockets over Israel , mirjam On the other hand, what shocks most of us is the totally OTT response by Israel. *If two or three people in a town *anywhere in the world get killed the normal reaction isn`t to go and kill more than 300 indiscriminately! All that`s going to do is produce even more terrorism and suicide bombings all over the world (Like we had recently in Mumbai). Pat OTOH, most people in the world don't have such a huge set of groups set on annihilating them. *I think that sadly, minimal responses have proven to be insignificant in effectiveness. And the overwhelming responses have somehow been more effective? I don't think so: they haven't stopped the attacks and they've ruined Israel's reputation among many who would otherwise have been supporters. Elizabeth It's a sad situation regardless. If you respond in kind, it doesn't matter. If you are peaceful, well, what did that get? So, there isa school of thought that supports the hefty response - not saying it's my idea personally. And. Lets be realistic - a lot of the world just doesn't really care except when something graphically horrible pops up on the media. Why would groups that support suicide bombings, and preach the annihilation of a people be stopped with modest responses? If they are so committed as to suicide bombings killing their own people, then .... If nothing else, the overwhelming response is forcing people and the world to take a look again. Those that have sat on the fence, especially the politely anti-semitic posture - wouldn't support Israel before, and won't now. It's vicious cycle, to be trite, with no easy answers. Ellice |
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#32
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Mirjam - how are you?
) writes:
You are the one that for years flamed attacked and called me liar , you have no clue about anything that goes on here , it is my country Our people our friends who uneder fitre , and being shot at ,, Not you ,, thus why should i discuss it with you ? do you have acces to those Terrorists Groups , can you influence them to stop shooting ROCKETS ,,, No ,,, I told you in the past when i posted , that a Terror act happened here did you ever CONDEMM those terrorists No !!! thus just now i have no reason to discuss the policy of my country with you ,, mirjam At considerable risk in coming into the debate at all, I will side with Mirjam. This conflict has been going on for over 2000 years, as to who owns this particular piece of real estate. Who is right and who is wrong, I have no idea. Probably both sides are right and both are wrong. However, I lived through WWII and the blitz and everything else. There were no "cililians" and "military" in that war. Everyone was a participant and a potential target. The Germans tried to starve us into submission, and we bombed German cities to eliminate them. "War is hell" to quote Gen Sherman. Howsever, in this conflict I trust the Israelis to do anything they commit to. They are a democracy. I do not trust the Muslims, as rctners already know. Some Muslims have shown themselves to be international terrorists. |
#33
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Mirjam - how are you?
lucretia borgia ) writes:
On 4 Jan 2009 14:41:54 GMT, (F.James Cripwell) opined: They are a democracy. I do not trust the Muslims, as rctners already know. Some Muslims have shown themselves to be international terrorists. Yes, that Maher Arar what a nasty job he was ! You couldn't wait to condemn him, then his wife when she took up his cause to get him out of Syria, we could see she had her head covered so was clearly a terrorist too. I was expecting that sort of thing. Here in Canada we are a democracy, and have an independent judiciary. I have made up my mind on the guilt or innocence of many different people, including Henry Morganthaler, who was found to be innocent, and Pickton, who was found to be guilty. My opinion does not matter. The courts decide. Our courts decided that Maher Arar was completley innocent, he has been absolved of any criminal activity, and has been financially compensated. I know money is not enough to put right all the wrongs that were done, but I am afraid that is life. Doubtless in the future I will make up my mind on other cases. I suspect sometimes I will be right, and sometimes wrong. So what? |
#34
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Mirjam - how are you?
lucretia borgia ) writes:
Except you didn't wait for any court case, you were certain he was a terrorist and deserved everything he received. Of course!!!!!!! I didn't wait for the SCOC ruling that declared Henry Morganthaler to be innocent either. I didn't wait for the jury decision before I decided Robert Latimer was innocent, and he was found guilty. He did not deserve to go to prison at all, IMHO. I didn't wait for the court decision that decided Pickton was guilty. What difference does it make what I think in legal cases? |
#35
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Mirjam - how are you?
On Jan 4, 9:41*am, (F.James Cripwell) wrote:
) writes: You are the one that for years flamed attacked and called me liar , you have no clue about anything that goes on here , it is my country Our people our friends who uneder fitre , and being shot at ,, Not you ,, thus why should i discuss it with you ? do you have acces to those Terrorists Groups , can you influence them to stop shooting ROCKETS ,,, No ,,, I told you in the past when i posted , that a Terror act happened here did you ever CONDEMM those terrorists No !!! thus just now i have no reason to discuss the policy of my country with you ,, mirjam At considerable risk in coming into the debate at all, I will side with Mirjam. *This conflict has been going on for over 2000 years, as to who owns this particular piece of real estate. *Who is right and who is wrong, I have no idea. *Probably both sides are right and both are wrong. However, I lived through WWII and the blitz and everything else. *There were no "cililians" and "military" in that war. *Everyone was a participant and a potential target. *The Germans tried to starve us into submission, and we bombed German cities to eliminate them. *"War is hell" to quote Gen Sherman. *Howsever, in this conflict I trust the Israelis to do anything they commit to. *They are a democracy. *I do not trust the Muslims, as rctners already know. *Some Muslims have shown themselves to be international terrorists. Um, hello, Jim? You will side with Mirjam in what? Calling me an anti-Semite? What did I ever do to you? Please note that the paragraph you quote is a diatribe against me, asking why she should discuss Israeli policy with me, when I was not discussing it with her in the first place. If you want to agree with Mirjam about Israeli policy, that's fine, but please note that the paragraph you're agreeing with proclaims that only those who live there have the right to comment on what the Israeli government does, so that leave you right out as well. Elizabeth |
#36
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Mirjam - how are you?
On Jan 4, 7:41*am, wrote:
thus just now i have no reason to discuss the policy of my country with you ,, Perfect. Then I really don't understand why you followed up to my post. Please, the next time you have no reason to discuss something with me, don't discuss it with me. We'll both be happier. Elizabeth |
#37
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Mirjam - how are you?
On Jan 4, 9:38*am, ellice wrote:
On 1/1/09 3:54 PM, " wrote: On Jan 1, 8:51*am, ellice wrote: On 12/31/08 6:37 PM, *"Pat P" wrote: wrote in message .... Lucretia http://www.honestreporting.com/a/15seconds.asp I haven`t seen you ever protest the Ongoing Rockets Shooting at civilians , children , hospitals etc on our side of the border , http://www.honestreporting.com/a/15seconds.asp Look at this and ask yourself How long YOU would have waited to stop it , Please notice that the Egyptian Government and the Palestinian President told the Hamas that they are to be balmaed because they were warned warned and warned to stop sending rockets over Israel , mirjam On the other hand, what shocks most of us is the totally OTT response by Israel. *If two or three people in a town *anywhere in the world get killed the normal reaction isn`t to go and kill more than 300 indiscriminately! All that`s going to do is produce even more terrorism and suicide bombings all over the world (Like we had recently in Mumbai). Pat OTOH, most people in the world don't have such a huge set of groups set on annihilating them. *I think that sadly, minimal responses have proven to be insignificant in effectiveness. And the overwhelming responses have somehow been more effective? *I don't think so: they haven't stopped the attacks and they've ruined Israel's reputation among many who would otherwise have been supporters. Elizabeth It's a sad situation regardless. *If you respond in kind, it doesn't matter. If you are peaceful, well, what did that get? *So, there isa school of thought that supports the hefty response - not saying it's my idea personally. * And there's a school of thought that says that if a less powerful opponent can get a more powerful opponent to respond with too much force, the less powerful opponent wins: in terms of public opinion, in terms of recruiting more fighters, in terms of moral superiority (although that's kind of moot in warfare). "The guerrilla wins unless he loses." I never said that Israel shouldn't respond, I'm just not sure that OTT responses have their desired effects on any level. Elizabeth |
#38
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Mirjam - how are you?
) writes:
(snip) I never said that Israel shouldn't respond, I'm just not sure that OTT responses have their desired effects on any level. Elizabeth Elizabeth, you dont understand lex talonis; the law of the jungle. If I am stronger than you are, and you break one of my legs, I break both of yours in return, and put out one of your eyes as well. The Israelis understand lex talonis. |
#39
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Mirjam - how are you?
"F.James Cripwell" wrote Elizabeth, you dont understand lex talonis; the law of the jungle. If I am stronger than you are, and you break one of my legs, I break both of yours in return, and put out one of your eyes as well. The Israelis understand lex talonis. So, we should aspire to live like wild beasts? Why not just burn all the books of wisdom, philosphy and religion that have led people to aspire to being something other than violent animals? Dawne |
#40
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Mirjam - how are you?
On Jan 4, 3:51*pm, (F.James Cripwell) wrote:
) writes: (snip) I never said that Israel shouldn't respond, I'm just not sure that OTT responses have their desired effects on any level. Elizabeth Elizabeth, you dont understand lex talonis; *the law of the jungle. *If I am stronger than you are, and you break one of my legs, I break both of yours in return, and put out one of your eyes as well. *The Israelis understand lex talonis. Jim, I understand the law of the jungle, I just don't think that it is effective. Last I knew, humans emerged from the jungle a long time ago. Israel's problem is that they want to apply the law of the jungle in a world that would like to consider itself civilized. When democratic societies behave that way, they should expect to be criticized. It's unfair, it's hypocritical, but it is the way things are. It's unfortunate for Israel that they will be criticized for their response. It is even more unfortunate that it won't work any better than it has worked the last many times they have applied it. Elizabeth |
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