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#1
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Resistance soldering
Hello all:
I recently acquired an older Vigor 1300 watt resistance soldering machine at a garage sale. (small gloat) I'd like to get some input as far as technique goes. Do you use flux? Should I avoid getting the flux on the carbon ground and probe? Where would I get carbon blocks and probes? Can I sharpen my existing probe? Sigh, information on the technique seems to be scarce. Anyone using this technique for soldering that could give me a few pointers? Thanks. -Mike St. Louis, Mo |
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#2
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Resistance soldering
mlcorson wrote:
Hello all: I recently acquired an older Vigor 1300 watt resistance soldering machine at a garage sale. (small gloat) I'd like to get some input as far as technique goes. Do you use flux? Should I avoid getting the flux on the carbon ground and probe? Where would I get carbon blocks and probes? Can I sharpen my existing probe? Sigh, information on the technique seems to be scarce. Anyone using this technique for soldering that could give me a few pointers? Thanks. -Mike St. Louis, Mo 1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere? Now you mention resistance soldering. that is a contradiction in terms. Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together to resistance joining. this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together. The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals together at that point. Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need. Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding. Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of otherwise impossible joining jobs. this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash but joining or capacitor discharge welding. .. your machine could just be that. |
#3
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Resistance soldering
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:35:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater
wrote: 1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere? Now you mention resistance soldering. that is a contradiction in terms. Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together to resistance joining. this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together. The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals together at that point. Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need. Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding. Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of otherwise impossible joining jobs. this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash but joining or capacitor discharge welding. . your machine could just be that. The machine he's got is indeed used for soldering, Ted, not welding. The machines were (and maybe still are, I don't know) used mostly by those jewelers doing only occasional repairs in a store, or in locations where a torch wasn't allowed or practical. Not a major tool for involved fabrication, but fine for things like repairing a broken joint on an eyeglass frame, or sizing rings, or other simple tasks. I've seen someone good with them even retip prongs on a diamond with one of these. They work by having good electrical contact with one part of an object, and small contact area with the other electrode (the pencil or probe, etc). When low voltage, high current, juice is passed through this, the area of highest resistance is that contact point between the metal and the probe, since all the carbon electrodes and the metal itself, conducts current just fine. So the small contact area quickly heats up enough to flow solder placed next to it in the desired joint. The things take some practice and getting used to, but are relatively simple and easy to use once one gets it figured out. They are not capacitive discharge machines, supplying constant current when the pedal switch is depressed, for however long the switch is depressed, so they are not like the tack welders or spot welders you're thinking of. A little like how you describe resistance joining, but these are smaller table top machines, and don't usually get parts hot enough to actually fuse the two parts of the joint together, but do rather rely on the use of solder. For the OP, you can make new electrodes from any commercial graphite rod or plate. Easy to find on ebay, as well as other sources (graphite rods are sold as stirring rods for molten metal, for example) Best way to learn how to use it is just to play with it and experiment with scraps. Gold solders joining gold or copper based metals will work more easily than silver, since silver's high thermal and electrical conductivity will require much more power from the machine. Not all these machines had the power to do more than small joints in silver. Can't help you more than that. It's been 30 years since I last played with one of those things. I found them to work, but much more frustrating than a torch with which I was already more familiar. But the watchmaker in that store I was working in at the time, was quite happy with the Vigor soldering machine, and could make it do just about anything he needed. One advantage over a torch is that heat is really localized to the contact area, so with practice, heat effects like fire scale or discoloration, etc, can be much more localized than is sometimes possible with a torch (think about things like those eyeglass frames, where any heat transfer would damage a finish, often a lacquer finish not easily patched.) The basic principals of soldering with these are the same as usual. you need clean metal, clean solder, a decent fit, and flux, same as with a torch. Diamonds, if you're working on prongs, still need the usual boric acid coating. Colored stones, if you're working near by, can still be damaged... Etc. Etc. Hope that helps. Peter Rowe |
#4
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Resistance soldering
On Jun 27, 9:54 pm, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote: On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:35:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater wrote: 1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere? Now you mention resistance soldering. that is a contradiction in terms. Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together to resistance joining. this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together. The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals together at that point. Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need. Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding. Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of otherwise impossible joining jobs. this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash but joining or capacitor discharge welding. . your machine could just be that. The machine he's got is indeed used for soldering, Ted, not welding. The machines were (and maybe still are, I don't know) used mostly by those jewelers doing only occasional repairs in a store, or in locations where a torch wasn't allowed or practical. Not a major tool for involved fabrication, but fine for things like repairing a broken joint on an eyeglass frame, or sizing rings, or other simple tasks. I've seen someone good with them even retip prongs on a diamond with one of these. They work by having good electrical contact with one part of an object, and small contact area with the other electrode (the pencil or probe, etc). When low voltage, high current, juice is passed through this, the area of highest resistance is that contact point between the metal and the probe, since all the carbon electrodes and the metal itself, conducts current just fine. So the small contact area quickly heats up enough to flow solder placed next to it in the desired joint. The things take some practice and getting used to, but are relatively simple and easy to use once one gets it figured out. They are not capacitive discharge machines, supplying constant current when the pedal switch is depressed, for however long the switch is depressed, so they are not like the tack welders or spot welders you're thinking of. A little like how you describe resistance joining, but these are smaller table top machines, and don't usually get parts hot enough to actually fuse the two parts of the joint together, but do rather rely on the use of solder. For the OP, you can make new electrodes from any commercial graphite rod or plate. Easy to find on ebay, as well as other sources (graphite rods are sold as stirring rods for molten metal, for example) Best way to learn how to use it is just to play with it and experiment with scraps. Gold solders joining gold or copper based metals will work more easily than silver, since silver's high thermal and electrical conductivity will require much more power from the machine. Not all these machines had the power to do more than small joints in silver. Can't help you more than that. It's been 30 years since I last played with one of those things. I found them to work, but much more frustrating than a torch with which I was already more familiar. But the watchmaker in that store I was working in at the time, was quite happy with the Vigor soldering machine, and could make it do just about anything he needed. One advantage over a torch is that heat is really localized to the contact area, so with practice, heat effects like fire scale or discoloration, etc, can be much more localized than is sometimes possible with a torch (think about things like those eyeglass frames, where any heat transfer would damage a finish, often a lacquer finish not easily patched.) The basic principals of soldering with these are the same as usual. you need clean metal, clean solder, a decent fit, and flux, same as with a torch. Diamonds, if you're working on prongs, still need the usual boric acid coating. Colored stones, if you're working near by, can still be damaged... Etc. Etc. Hope that helps. Peter Rowe Thanks for the info. -Mike |
#5
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Resistance soldering
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:35:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater wrote: 1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere? Now you mention resistance soldering. that is a contradiction in terms. Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together to resistance joining. this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together. The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals together at that point. Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need. Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding. Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of otherwise impossible joining jobs. this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash but joining or capacitor discharge welding. . your machine could just be that. The machine he's got is indeed used for soldering, Ted, not welding. The machines were (and maybe still are, I don't know) used mostly by those jewelers doing only occasional repairs in a store, or in locations where a torch wasn't allowed or practical. Not a major tool for involved fabrication, but fine for things like repairing a broken joint on an eyeglass frame, or sizing rings, or other simple tasks. I've seen someone good with them even retip prongs on a diamond with one of these. They work by having good electrical contact with one part of an object, and small contact area with the other electrode (the pencil or probe, etc). When low voltage, high current, juice is passed through this, the area of highest resistance is that contact point between the metal and the probe, since all the carbon electrodes and the metal itself, conducts current just fine. So the small contact area quickly heats up enough to flow solder placed next to it in the desired joint. The things take some practice and getting used to, but are relatively simple and easy to use once one gets it figured out. They are not capacitive discharge machines, supplying constant current when the pedal switch is depressed, for however long the switch is depressed, so they are not like the tack welders or spot welders you're thinking of. A little like how you describe resistance joining, but these are smaller table top machines, and don't usually get parts hot enough to actually fuse the two parts of the joint together, but do rather rely on the use of solder. For the OP, you can make new electrodes from any commercial graphite rod or plate. Easy to find on ebay, as well as other sources (graphite rods are sold as stirring rods for molten metal, for example) Best way to learn how to use it is just to play with it and experiment with scraps. Gold solders joining gold or copper based metals will work more easily than silver, since silver's high thermal and electrical conductivity will require much more power from the machine. Not all these machines had the power to do more than small joints in silver. Can't help you more than that. It's been 30 years since I last played with one of those things. I found them to work, but much more frustrating than a torch with which I was already more familiar. But the watchmaker in that store I was working in at the time, was quite happy with the Vigor soldering machine, and could make it do just about anything he needed. One advantage over a torch is that heat is really localized to the contact area, so with practice, heat effects like fire scale or discoloration, etc, can be much more localized than is sometimes possible with a torch (think about things like those eyeglass frames, where any heat transfer would damage a finish, often a lacquer finish not easily patched.) The basic principals of soldering with these are the same as usual. you need clean metal, clean solder, a decent fit, and flux, same as with a torch. Diamonds, if you're working on prongs, still need the usual boric acid coating. Colored stones, if you're working near by, can still be damaged... Etc. Etc. Hope that helps. Peter Rowe One never stops learning.!! Here in the UK its something Ie never heard of, gess its a US speciality. Despite being a reular in the Birmingham jewellery quarter ans associated speciallist tool suppliers. |
#6
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Resistance soldering
The Borg wrote:
Resistance is futile. Who would want to resist if they could get outfitted with some of that Borg jewelry. |
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