I want y'all's opinion

I got an inquiry from a guy in another country who wanted me to make a
silver ring for him. He said he wanted me to copy a gold one (that I
assumed he already had.)
He snail-mailed me a photo cut from a magazine.
I emailed him back and told him that I was sorry but that I didn't
feel right about copying another artists work.
He, rightfully I believe, brought up the point that I was willing to
copy a ring I thought he already owned, but in a different metal. He
wondered what the difference was.
To be honest, I think maybe he was correct in that really there is no
difference and maybe I should rethink how I proceed in the future
regarding the copying of others designs.

I felt that it wasn't a bad thing to make a duplicate of a ring he'd
already purchased; That since he'd already paid the artist for the art
I wasn't really stealing (plagiarizing) the work, but upon reflection
I think that would have been equally wrong of me to do.

Your thoughts?


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There is absolutely nothing wrong with reproducing a jewellery design.
As long as it's a 'one-off' and you're not producing a commercial run for
your retailers (whatever), it's ok.

John



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Frosty wrote:
I got an inquiry from a guy in another country who wanted me to make a
silver ring for him. He said he wanted me to copy a gold one (that I
assumed he already had.)
He snail-mailed me a photo cut from a magazine.
I emailed him back and told him that I was sorry but that I didn't
feel right about copying another artists work.
He, rightfully I believe, brought up the point that I was willing to
copy a ring I thought he already owned, but in a different metal. He
wondered what the difference was.
To be honest, I think maybe he was correct in that really there is no
difference and maybe I should rethink how I proceed in the future
regarding the copying of others designs.

I felt that it wasn't a bad thing to make a duplicate of a ring he'd
already purchased; That since he'd already paid the artist for the art
I wasn't really stealing (plagiarizing) the work, but upon reflection
I think that would have been equally wrong of me to do.

Your thoughts?



I occasionally think about these type of topics. The only point I'd like
to offer, is, what is the reasonable expectation of the original artist?
If we're discussing an extremely simple design,(like some half round
wire formed into a circle) should the artist really expect the entire
world to never duplicate it? Or is it more along the lines of
Kretchmer's Tension Rings?

good question.


Carl


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I think a lot depends on the design. For example a trademarked Playboy
ring is going to get you in trouble no matter what metal you use.
So aside from the moral issues you must consider the legal issues. Is
the design itself trademarked or use a trademark name, does it have
design copyright protection (in the Uk you can register a protection
which lasts 15 years). Copyright can be established by referring to for
example the date an image was published on the internet (the interent
is a double-edged sword benefiting both the artist and in some cases
the copyer). Whether different metals constitue a substantial departure
from the original design is a complex issue with no definative answer.
Whatever the issues i think you are walking accross a land-mine however
the choice is yours.
best of luck


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Frosty wrote:
I got an inquiry from a guy in another country who wanted me to make a
silver ring for him. He said he wanted me to copy a gold one (that I
assumed he already had.)
He snail-mailed me a photo cut from a magazine.
I emailed him back and told him that I was sorry but that I didn't
feel right about copying another artists work.
He, rightfully I believe, brought up the point that I was willing to
copy a ring I thought he already owned, but in a different metal. He
wondered what the difference was.
To be honest, I think maybe he was correct in that really there is no
difference and maybe I should rethink how I proceed in the future
regarding the copying of others designs.

I felt that it wasn't a bad thing to make a duplicate of a ring he'd
already purchased; That since he'd already paid the artist for the art
I wasn't really stealing (plagiarizing) the work, but upon reflection
I think that would have been equally wrong of me to do.

Your thoughts?


I like this kind of query, gets the grey matter thinking about
something new. Here are my initial thoughts,
Its as always not as simple as it seems on the face of it.
Id need to know a lot more, for example what county the enqiry came
from? who was the original artist? is he/she still alive and contactable?
has the enquirer tried to get the original artist to make it up in
silver? and what was the reply?
If for example its a big multinational jeweller who makes and sells to
the very rich,then I might not have any qualms about copying it if I was
desperate for work right now, Especially if it was advertised in an
expensive glossy fashion mag.
If it was I wouldnt even try to get in touch with them to ask permission
to do a silver copy. knowing how these big rip off co's work.
Id also like to see a picture of the ring , not because I want to see if
I could make it, but if its wrought or cast or what ever.
Also, you need to be careful just in case you might be sued for
copyright infringement. The enquirer coud be interested in using your
copy to make hundreds to sell to tourists like the fake rolex watches
one can seee in tourist places.
Its one thing to do a copy for a personal friend you have known for
some time, quite another for an enquiry from overseas from a stranger.
No, id pass this one by. Find other work if you can.
To give you an example. I was doing a lot of enamelling for a leading
international jeweller who was by royal appointment here in the UK.
I was exhibiting my enamelling work at an art show where I had
mentioned on my display " Enamelling as supplier to Andrew Grima"
the next day I had a call from the great man himself asking me to
desist from making any reference to him on my display.
Someone had spotted it and reported it to him.
thats how these big Co's guard their reputation, Even tho I was one
of his suppliers!!. Even tho he had come to me for my skills.
Let us know more, thewn well be able to give youa better response.

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[According to my understanding of copyright law, the issue hinges on the age
of the original ring. If this was something which is currently out of
copyright - roughly, dating from the 1800's or before - then you're in the
clear. Otherwise, if you make a work which is "derivative", you set yourself
up for criminal as well as civil penalties. Of course these things boil down
to a matter of judgement, and if it's a fairly standard design, you will
likely get away with it. But if the person going after you has deep pockets
and a burning desire to protect their "intellectual property", then you
could still find yourself in trouble. (There's a current thread on the
Orchid forum about a fellow like that named David Yurman.)

As for your specific issue, yes - you are equally liable if you copy a ring
the fellow already owns, as if you copy it from a magazine photo. Yes, the
original item was already paid for, but buying something doesn't convey the
right to copy it - that's what "copyright" means. Otherwise, you could buy a
single copy of a painting, book, movie, or software program and proceed to
sell all the copies you want. Read the "FBI notice" at the beginning of any
videotape to find out what the industry position on that is...]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com



"Frosty" wrote in message
...
I got an inquiry from a guy in another country who wanted me to make a
silver ring for him. He said he wanted me to copy a gold one (that I
assumed he already had.)
He snail-mailed me a photo cut from a magazine.
I emailed him back and told him that I was sorry but that I didn't
feel right about copying another artists work.
He, rightfully I believe, brought up the point that I was willing to
copy a ring I thought he already owned, but in a different metal. He
wondered what the difference was.
To be honest, I think maybe he was correct in that really there is no
difference and maybe I should rethink how I proceed in the future
regarding the copying of others designs.

I felt that it wasn't a bad thing to make a duplicate of a ring he'd
already purchased; That since he'd already paid the artist for the art
I wasn't really stealing (plagiarizing) the work, but upon reflection
I think that would have been equally wrong of me to do.

Your thoughts?


--
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:29:17 -0800 in rec.crafts.jewelry a thought sat
on "John" 's chest like a vulture, I said "Pluck It! And
with the feather I'll tickle your throat and you can throw it up to
me" Said he "I shall" & thus puked:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with reproducing a jewellery design.
As long as it's a 'one-off' and you're not producing a commercial run for
your retailers (whatever), it's ok.

John

Hmm.
Well, then I won't post my website address here!



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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:29:24 -0800 in rec.crafts.jewelry a thought sat
on Carl 1 Lucky Texan 's chest like a vulture, I
said "Pluck It! And with the feather I'll tickle your throat and you
can throw it up to me" Said he "I shall" & thus puked:
Frosty wrote:
I got an inquiry from a guy in another country who wanted me to make a
silver ring for him. He said he wanted me to copy a gold one (that I
assumed he already had.)
He snail-mailed me a photo cut from a magazine.
I emailed him back and told him that I was sorry but that I didn't
feel right about copying another artists work.
He, rightfully I believe, brought up the point that I was willing to
copy a ring I thought he already owned, but in a different metal. He
wondered what the difference was.
To be honest, I think maybe he was correct in that really there is no
difference and maybe I should rethink how I proceed in the future
regarding the copying of others designs.

I felt that it wasn't a bad thing to make a duplicate of a ring he'd
already purchased; That since he'd already paid the artist for the art
I wasn't really stealing (plagiarizing) the work, but upon reflection
I think that would have been equally wrong of me to do.

Your thoughts?



I occasionally think about these type of topics. The only point I'd like
to offer, is, what is the reasonable expectation of the original artist?
If we're discussing an extremely simple design,(like some half round
wire formed into a circle) should the artist really expect the entire
world to never duplicate it? Or is it more along the lines of
Kretchmer's Tension Rings?

good question.


I'm guessing the original artist was Tiffany.
I'm also guessing that they have the bucks to sue me if they decide to
and don't have the bucks to defend myself!

Carl


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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:29:29 -0800 in rec.crafts.jewelry a thought sat
on "silverstall" 's chest like a vulture, I said
"Pluck It! And with the feather I'll tickle your throat and you can
throw it up to me" Said he "I shall" & thus puked:
I think a lot depends on the design. For example a trademarked Playboy
ring is going to get you in trouble no matter what metal you use.
So aside from the moral issues you must consider the legal issues. Is
the design itself trademarked or use a trademark name, does it have
design copyright protection (in the Uk you can register a protection
which lasts 15 years). Copyright can be established by referring to for
example the date an image was published on the internet (the interent
is a double-edged sword benefiting both the artist and in some cases
the copyer). Whether different metals constitue a substantial departure
from the original design is a complex issue with no definative answer.
Whatever the issues i think you are walking accross a land-mine however
the choice is yours.
best of luck


Yeah.
I passed. I'm not much into walking on landmines.

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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:33:07 -0800 in rec.crafts.jewelry a thought sat
on ted frater 's chest like a vulture, I said
"Pluck It! And with the feather I'll tickle your throat and you can
throw it up to me" Said he "I shall" & thus puked:
Frosty wrote:
I got an inquiry from a guy in another country who wanted me to make a
silver ring for him. He said he wanted me to copy a gold one (that I
assumed he already had.)
He snail-mailed me a photo cut from a magazine.
I emailed him back and told him that I was sorry but that I didn't
feel right about copying another artists work.
He, rightfully I believe, brought up the point that I was willing to
copy a ring I thought he already owned, but in a different metal. He
wondered what the difference was.
To be honest, I think maybe he was correct in that really there is no
difference and maybe I should rethink how I proceed in the future
regarding the copying of others designs.

I felt that it wasn't a bad thing to make a duplicate of a ring he'd
already purchased; That since he'd already paid the artist for the art
I wasn't really stealing (plagiarizing) the work, but upon reflection
I think that would have been equally wrong of me to do.

Your thoughts?


I like this kind of query, gets the grey matter thinking about
something new. Here are my initial thoughts,
Its as always not as simple as it seems on the face of it.
Id need to know a lot more, for example what county the enquiry came
from?

Wales.

who was the original artist? is he/she still alive and contact able?

It was a cutout from a magazine.
The potential customer didn't know who the original artist was.

has the enquirer tried to get the original artist to make it up in
silver? and what was the reply?

See above.
I don't know if he tried or not.

If for example its a big multinational jeweller who makes and sells to
the very rich,then I might not have any qualms about copying it if I was
desperate for work right now, Especially if it was advertised in an
expensive glossy fashion mag.

Although I'm not "the very rich" or even the "very middle class" I
hope to one day be the former.
I believe it's wrong to steal/plagiarize anyone's work no matter the
size of their billfold.

If it was I wouldn't even try to get in touch with them to ask permission
to do a silver copy. knowing how these big rip off co's work.

I don't know them to fit that description.

Id also like to see a picture of the ring , not because I want to see if
I could make it, but if its wrought or cast or what ever.


It was cast.
It was a very angular, maybe even faceted, leopard or jaguar head in
yellow gold with what appeared to be inlaid titanium or platinum or ?
"spots" (more diamond [like playing cards] shaped)
The nose was a raised bit of possibly titanium or hematite.
Even the part around the finger was faceted and would have probably
required one of those 8-sided ring mandrels.
The cat looked down the finger (or up to the hand)

Also, you need to be careful just in case you might be sued for
copyright infringement. The enquirer cloud be interested in using your
copy to make hundreds to sell to tourists like the fake Rolex watches
one can see in tourist places.

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind.

Its one thing to do a copy for a personal friend you have known for
some time, quite another for an enquiry from overseas from a stranger.
No, id pass this one by. Find other work if you can.

I have more work than I can do.
I have a friend who works at a company whose sole purpose is to write
copy to make sure website rank high in Google searches.
He told me how it's done and now if one types certain key words or
phrases, my site pops up at the top of Google searches.

snip

Let us know more, then we'll be able to give you a better response.

If some brave soul wants to write me offlist I'll pass on the guy's
email and you can have the job.

Frosty


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