Engraving block

Well, in an effort to expand my range of enameling techniques, I'm trying=
=20
to add engraving under the enamel. I'm going to be making a budget block=
=20
to get started. I'll be slicing off 1/3rd of a bowling ball and adding a=
=20
vise. I was going to get a drill press vise and replace the jaws with=20
derlin or nylon or something similar, but looking around, I was wondering=
=20
if it would be better to get one of these=20
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K57E257DB (long ebay link, worksafe) and=20
remove the handle and attach it to the base.

Also, I noticed these as well http://makeashorterlink.com/?S3AE137DB =
which=20
seems to be a very good price. Would I be better off to just cough up =
the=20
$250 for it rather than making my own block? I'm reasonably competent at=
=20
making my own tools, as long as they aren't horribly intricate.
Todd

"Todd Rich" wrote in message
...

Also, I noticed these as well http://makeashorterlink.com/?S3AE137DB =
which
seems to be a very good price. Would I be better off to just cough up =
the
$250 for it rather than making my own block? I'm reasonably competent at
making my own tools, as long as they aren't horribly intricate.
Todd
----------------------

Well it looks reasonably cheap, but have you considered the traditional
cast iron bowl and some pitch?

http://www.contenti.com/products/engraving/210-228.html

It'll give a sight better grip than any clamp.

--=20
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Todd Rich wrote:
Well, in an effort to expand my range of enameling techniques, I'm =
trying
to add engraving under the enamel.



Perhaps you should see first how you'll get on with engraving and
enamelling before investing in a purpose made engraving block.

If you are starting from small jewellery pieces then try the following
(system generally taught to students in UK) :

needed
wooden board (big enough to hold your piece)
setter's wax
sand bag (you can make your own, 2 round discs of moistened heavy
leather - shaped over a large soup plate, stitched together to hold
'silver sand')
gravers

=46ix your pre-shaped & pre-soldered piece onto a small block of wood
with setter's wax
- slightly warm your work (metal)
- dribble some wax onto the wooden board/block
- sufficient to allow for any curvature of your piece
- press gently
The size of wood is important as you should be able to hold it
firmly/comfortably between your fingers (thumb & middle finger)
use board which is not too thick and does not give you splinters

Then you just hold your block on the bag while you work (use the
curvature of the sides of sand bag to adjust the working angle)
- important - see how to sharpen a graver & hold it:

http://www.soi11.com/video/Broadband/GraverSection.htm

- not the easiest way to do it:

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/emolimo/techniqu.htm

some info how to do it all:

http://www.roland-collection.com/rol...ion/36/820.htm


some info also in:
Enamelling on Precious Metals Jeanne Werge-Hartley

The advantage of the simple sand bag method is that it is flexible &
you can move your board/piece easily/fast

NOTE - when holding the board between your thumb & middle finger
- these 2 fingers should form an 'arch'
- if you slip (and in the beginning it happens all the time)
the graver slips thru' the arched fingers and you'll never hurt
yourself.

good luck
norwick

norwick wrote:
Todd Rich wrote:
=20
Well, in an effort to expand my range of enameling techniques, I'm =
trying
to add engraving under the enamel.
=20
=20
=20
=20
Perhaps you should see first how you'll get on with engraving and
enamelling before investing in a purpose made engraving block.
=20
If you are starting from small jewellery pieces then try the following
(system generally taught to students in UK) :
=20
needed
wooden board (big enough to hold your piece)
setter's wax
sand bag (you can make your own, 2 round discs of moistened heavy
leather - shaped over a large soup plate, stitched together to hold
'silver sand')
gravers
=20
Fix your pre-shaped & pre-soldered piece onto a small block of wood
with setter's wax
- slightly warm your work (metal)
- dribble some wax onto the wooden board/block
- sufficient to allow for any curvature of your piece
- press gently
The size of wood is important as you should be able to hold it
firmly/comfortably between your fingers (thumb & middle finger)
use board which is not too thick and does not give you splinters
=20
Then you just hold your block on the bag while you work (use the
curvature of the sides of sand bag to adjust the working angle)
- important - see how to sharpen a graver & hold it:
=20
http://www.soi11.com/video/Broadband/GraverSection.htm
=20
- not the easiest way to do it:
=20
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/emolimo/techniqu.htm
=20
some info how to do it all:
=20
http://www.roland-collection.com/rol...ion/36/820.htm
=20
=20
some info also in:
Enamelling on Precious Metals Jeanne Werge-Hartley
=20
The advantage of the simple sand bag method is that it is flexible &
you can move your board/piece easily/fast
=20
NOTE - when holding the board between your thumb & middle finger
- these 2 fingers should form an 'arch'
- if you slip (and in the beginning it happens all the time)
the graver slips thru' the arched fingers and you'll never hurt
yourself.
=20
good luck
norwick
=20
=20
Thers another way thats much faster in getting the engraved/=20
engineturned look onto the metal prior to enamelling
By hand that is..
What you do is this.
you 1stly set up a steel block say 2in thick by 6in round or square at=20
say 60degree angle to your bench in front of you.. this forms an anvil=20
for the following process.
Having cut out your shape in what ever metal you plan to enamel on,=20
you hold this on the said steel anvil with one hand whilst with the=20
other you use a chisel ended chasing hammer with the working face=20
ground and very highly polished to a radius of approx .25mm.
you start in the middle of your blank and hammer the highly polished=20
face into the metal blank, which ill assume youve cleaned properly =
anyway..
you rotate the blank and hammer in concentric circles creating a=20
sunray effect.
you should be able to hammer at 50 blows a minuite. taking no longer tha=20
a few minuites on a 2in dia blank.
I developed this technique many years ago , and when enamelled the=20
hammered facets caused a real spatkle to the reflected light through the=20
transparent enamel layer.
this worked well on copper including deep enamel on fine silver and=20
fine gold.

I still have this hammer and
block. Good luck with this process.

Todd Rich wrote:
Well, in an effort to expand my range of enameling techniques, I'm =
trying
to add engraving under the enamel. I'm going to be making a budget =
block
to get started. I'll be slicing off 1/3rd of a bowling ball and adding=
a
vise. I was going to get a drill press vise and replace the jaws with
derlin or nylon or something similar, but looking around, I was =
wondering
if it would be better to get one of these
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K57E257DB (long ebay link, worksafe) and
remove the handle and attach it to the base.

Also, I noticed these as well http://makeashorterlink.com/?S3AE137DB =
which
seems to be a very good price. Would I be better off to just cough up =
the
$250 for it rather than making my own block? I'm reasonably competent =
at
making my own tools, as long as they aren't horribly intricate.
Todd

I think the swivel part of the block is the most important. Take a look
at a "panavise", which has nylon jaws and swivels and tilts and all
kids of stuff. Just do a google, there'll be something. C.R. Hill sells
tham I know.

If you're worried about bending your piece, make a T-shaped thing out
of 18ga. sheet and shellac your piece in then clamp it in the vise. A
pitch bowl is too clumsy for me. They're for chasing or repousse' and
chisel work, anyway. BTW, the engraving under the enamel is called
'flinking'.

Lane

wrote in message
...


I think the swivel part of the block is the most important. Take a look
at a "panavise", which has nylon jaws and swivels and tilts and all
kids of stuff. Just do a google, there'll be something. C.R. Hill sells
tham I know.

--------------

My cast iron bowl swivels as well.

--=20
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Todd Rich wrote:

=20
Also, I noticed these as well http://makeashorterlink.com/?S3AE137DB =
which=20
seems to be a very good price. Would I be better off to just cough up =
the=20
$250 for it rather than making my own block? I'm reasonably competent =
at=20
making my own tools, as long as they aren't horribly intricate.
Todd
=20

Do not get this block! It is very poorly made. I got the same one just=20
a couple of months ago, and returned it. It is distributed by a company=20
called Pepe Tools=20
(http://www.pepetools.com/viewcategory.php/categoryid/83). These blocks=20
are made in Russia, and are copies of the famous Victor engraving block=20
that is no longer produced.

After I had returned the Pepe block, I bought what I thought to be the=20
original Victor engraving block, which as it turns out is now produced=20
for Grobet USA in Italy. Well, that one was just as bad as the Pepe,=20
and in several ways even worse. I was furious, because this one is=20
marketed under the name "Victor" and touted on the Grobet website as=20
"Recognized as the finest block among engravers throughout the world".=20
See http://tinyurl.com/7vlb8

By the way, the imitation Victor by Grobet sells for $475.00 (see=20
http://shorinternational.com/EngravingBlockshtm.htm) The funny thing=20
here they use the claim of "Imitated but never equaled" This thing IS=20
an imitation, which in fact does not equal the original!

Suffice to say, I returned this one also, after writing an angry letter=20
to Grobet. I am now considering filing a complaint against Grobet with=20
the Attorney General of the State of New Jersey, as well as the=20
Department of Consumer Affairs of the State of New Jersey, for deceptive=20
advertising and business practices.

What irks me, is not that they produce a terrible engraving block at a=20
very high price, but that they use deceptive business practices to=20
market and sell it. That is illegal in the US.

So I continued to try and find a real Victor, because truly, there is=20
nothing better as far as I am concerned, in an engraving block. I=20
followed several eBay auctions. One I did not bid in. I did not like=20
the condition, and the price was going too high to my liking.=20
http://tinyurl.com/anoh4

I bid $425.00 on this one (http://tinyurl.com/beesb), which was complete=20
with accessories and seemed in perfect condition. I was outbid by $5.00=20
with 4 seconds to go. Too little time to get in another bid.=20
=46rustrating at 5 AM on a Sunday morning!

So, I'll probably get the next best thing now. A GRS block. It is a=20
great block, I just don't like how they look.

Anyone knows somebody who want to sell a "real" Victor engraving block?
--=20
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Abrasha wrote in=20
:

I bid $425.00 on this one (http://tinyurl.com/beesb), which was =
complete=20
with accessories and seemed in perfect condition. I was outbid by =
$5.00=20
with 4 seconds to go. Too little time to get in another bid.=20
Frustrating at 5 AM on a Sunday morning!
=20

If you'd care to e-mail me, I'd be happy to share my reasoinably =
sucessful e-
bay bidding technique.



--=20
James C. Woodard
"Too many laws make scofflaws of all"
http://home.comcast.net/~gwyddon/

Abrasha wrote:

Do not get this block! It is very poorly made. I got the same one =
just=20
a couple of months ago, and returned it. It is distributed by a =
company=20
(snip)

I'm curious, what specifically was wrong with it? Ball not spherical? =20
Screw not to tight tolerances?
Todd

Todd Rich wrote:
Abrasha wrote:

Do not get this block! It is very poorly made. I got the same one =
just=20
a couple of months ago, and returned it. It is distributed by a =
company=20
(snip)

I'm curious, what specifically was wrong with it? Ball not spherical? =
=20
Screw not to tight tolerances?
Todd

This was a serious request by the way. I work at a machine shop so if it=
=20
is something that is fixable I can probably either do it or know somebody=
=20
who can. About the only thing that I probably can't fix is if it isn't=20
spherical.
Todd