blindly scoring forwards

Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained glass. I
have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing okay with
'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making' there are so many
different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I have a
textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented (read-overly picky
about exactness). What are your preferences is getting your pieces cut? for
example, trace pattern right onto glass; cut out pattern with pattern
shears - then trace on to glass...you get the idea. I know about leaving
room for the foil, but some say to cut your pieces so they fit exactly,
others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I want
it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained glass.
I
have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing okay with
'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making' there are so
many
different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I have
a
textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented (read-overly
picky
about exactness). What are your preferences is getting your pieces cut?
for
example, trace pattern right onto glass; cut out pattern with pattern
shears - then trace on to glass...you get the idea. I know about leaving
room for the foil, but some say to cut your pieces so they fit exactly,
others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I
want
it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey




Why would speed appeal to anyone starting out, unless you are into making
money? Slow and steady and accuracy is where it's at. As for pattern
cutting, you need to work from an exact pattern, and learn to cut as
perfectly as possible. If you don't try to be perfect, (you won't anyway),
then what chance do you have?
All that said, keep in mind that SG is a hand made craft, and is not
intended to look like it came out of a mold. Variance in hand cutting will
effect line thickness, and soldering will always be a bit imperfect looking
anyway. To me it's all in the design and the glass used. Maybe one out of a
thousand that looks at your finished piece will say, "my my look at how
accurately he cut those pieces", instead of "wow, look at that beautiful
glass".

--

JK Sinrod
www.sinrodstudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained glass.
I have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing okay with
'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making' there are so
many different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I have
a textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented (read-overly
picky about exactness). What are your preferences is getting your pieces
cut? for example, trace pattern right onto glass; cut out pattern with
pattern shears - then trace on to glass...you get the idea. I know about
leaving room for the foil, but some say to cut your pieces so they fit
exactly, others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I
want it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

20 year hobbyist here. Don't worry about speed, especially at the
beginning. As Glassman notes it is all about the art of it. I take some
pride in skinny solder lines that indicate that the pieces fit really well
together (unless I want a thick line for some type of effect).

I generally cut my pattern into pieces (with plain old scissors - it is only
paper photocopy), trace onto the glass using a paint pen, then cut the line
off best I can and then grind to accuracy. Yeah the line washes off
sometimes - I dry it off and replace it if I need to. Maybe I don't need
to. Sometimes I put the pattern on a light box and trace the outline right
on the glass if I am using clear enough glass (saves cutting up a pattern).

I always have another iteration of the pattern on a piece of flat styrofoam
and this is where I lay out the finished pieces, and line up the piece I am
grinding to see how the fit is going. I use straight pins to pin it all
out, and have been pretty successful at using a ton of them to simulate the
thickness of the foil (as well as hold it all in place). If the gap is one
pin all around I am happening. Then when I foil I just remove the pins as I
go along, except for the pins around the edge, Then solder it all up.
Hope this helps,
Tomes

i only use a cut out pattern when cutting black glass. I always lay the
glass right on top of the pattern and cut. that way you see the grain
direction of the glass, too. No pins, just frame the outside edges and begin
along one side or corner.Light table is handy for opaque glass, also having
carbon paper is handy. Just lay the carbon on opaque glass, pattern on top,
and trace the outline .m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained
glass. I have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing
okay with 'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making'
there are so many different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I
have a textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented
(read-overly picky about exactness). What are your preferences is getting
your pieces cut? for example, trace pattern right onto glass; cut out
pattern with pattern shears - then trace on to glass...you get the idea.
I know about leaving room for the foil, but some say to cut your pieces
so they fit exactly, others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I
want it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

20 year hobbyist here. Don't worry about speed, especially at the
beginning. As Glassman notes it is all about the art of it. I take some
pride in skinny solder lines that indicate that the pieces fit really well
together (unless I want a thick line for some type of effect).

I generally cut my pattern into pieces (with plain old scissors - it is
only paper photocopy), trace onto the glass using a paint pen, then cut
the line off best I can and then grind to accuracy. Yeah the line washes
off sometimes - I dry it off and replace it if I need to. Maybe I don't
need to. Sometimes I put the pattern on a light box and trace the outline
right on the glass if I am using clear enough glass (saves cutting up a
pattern).

I always have another iteration of the pattern on a piece of flat
styrofoam and this is where I lay out the finished pieces, and line up the
piece I am grinding to see how the fit is going. I use straight pins to
pin it all out, and have been pretty successful at using a ton of them to
simulate the thickness of the foil (as well as hold it all in place). If
the gap is one pin all around I am happening. Then when I foil I just
remove the pins as I go along, except for the pins around the edge, Then
solder it all up.
Hope this helps,
Tomes

I like the carbon paper thought - have not tried that. Now I gotta try it,
thanks. I wish I still had my light table, but it was too big to move out
of the doorway when I moved, and there it stayed to my chagrin. I had just
cut (and routed) a rectangle in a big long table that was built by previous
owners in that room and laid a piece of thick clear glass into it and a
light beneath.

So you do your scoring right on your light table? I have my work table
covered with really short carpeting and I always thought that it used that
bit of flexing when scoring to help things along. I also guess that you
have conquered the other problem of it slipping around on the light table
when scoring - how?
Curious Tomes

"michele" wrote in message
...
i only use a cut out pattern when cutting black glass. I always lay the
glass right on top of the pattern and cut. that way you see the grain
direction of the glass, too. No pins, just frame the outside edges and
begin along one side or corner.Light table is handy for opaque glass, also
having carbon paper is handy. Just lay the carbon on opaque glass, pattern
on top, and trace the outline .m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained
glass. I have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing
okay with 'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making'
there are so many different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I
have a textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented
(read-overly picky about exactness). What are your preferences is
getting your pieces cut? for example, trace pattern right onto glass;
cut out pattern with pattern shears - then trace on to glass...you get
the idea. I know about leaving room for the foil, but some say to cut
your pieces so they fit exactly, others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I
want it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

20 year hobbyist here. Don't worry about speed, especially at the
beginning. As Glassman notes it is all about the art of it. I take some
pride in skinny solder lines that indicate that the pieces fit really
well together (unless I want a thick line for some type of effect).

I generally cut my pattern into pieces (with plain old scissors - it is
only paper photocopy), trace onto the glass using a paint pen, then cut
the line off best I can and then grind to accuracy. Yeah the line washes
off sometimes - I dry it off and replace it if I need to. Maybe I don't
need to. Sometimes I put the pattern on a light box and trace the
outline right on the glass if I am using clear enough glass (saves
cutting up a pattern).

I always have another iteration of the pattern on a piece of flat
styrofoam and this is where I lay out the finished pieces, and line up
the piece I am grinding to see how the fit is going. I use straight pins
to pin it all out, and have been pretty successful at using a ton of them
to simulate the thickness of the foil (as well as hold it all in place).
If the gap is one pin all around I am happening. Then when I foil I just
remove the pins as I go along, except for the pins around the edge, Then
solder it all up.
Hope this helps,
Tomes

If you're using lead, the amount you can vary depends on how wide your lead
profile is. You need to fit under them! ;-) If you'r esuing foil, there
should be enough space for the two layers of foil, and some small additional
space for the solder. If there is not enough space, the panel may be weak.
Hobbyists don't need to worry about speed. But if you turn pro, time is
literally money, so don't dawdle. Of course, you want to be fast as a
hobbist too, because, who wants to waste time? But only as fast as you're
comfortable.

Actually, my usual work top is a piece of drywall. It covers the old sliding
glass door that is the table top. When i need the lights, i just slide the
drywall away and cut directly on the glass. (or on my butcher paper
pattern). I have 2 flourescent worklights under the glass.m
"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I like the carbon paper thought - have not tried that. Now I gotta try it,
thanks. I wish I still had my light table, but it was too big to move out
of the doorway when I moved, and there it stayed to my chagrin. I had just
cut (and routed) a rectangle in a big long table that was built by previous
owners in that room and laid a piece of thick clear glass into it and a
light beneath.

So you do your scoring right on your light table? I have my work table
covered with really short carpeting and I always thought that it used that
bit of flexing when scoring to help things along. I also guess that you
have conquered the other problem of it slipping around on the light table
when scoring - how?
Curious Tomes

"michele" wrote in message
...
i only use a cut out pattern when cutting black glass. I always lay the
glass right on top of the pattern and cut. that way you see the grain
direction of the glass, too. No pins, just frame the outside edges and
begin along one side or corner.Light table is handy for opaque glass, also
having carbon paper is handy. Just lay the carbon on opaque glass, pattern
on top, and trace the outline .m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained
glass. I have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing
okay with 'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making'
there are so many different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I
have a textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented
(read-overly picky about exactness). What are your preferences is
getting your pieces cut? for example, trace pattern right onto glass;
cut out pattern with pattern shears - then trace on to glass...you get
the idea. I know about leaving room for the foil, but some say to cut
your pieces so they fit exactly, others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I
want it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

20 year hobbyist here. Don't worry about speed, especially at the
beginning. As Glassman notes it is all about the art of it. I take
some pride in skinny solder lines that indicate that the pieces fit
really well together (unless I want a thick line for some type of
effect).

I generally cut my pattern into pieces (with plain old scissors - it is
only paper photocopy), trace onto the glass using a paint pen, then cut
the line off best I can and then grind to accuracy. Yeah the line
washes off sometimes - I dry it off and replace it if I need to. Maybe
I don't need to. Sometimes I put the pattern on a light box and trace
the outline right on the glass if I am using clear enough glass (saves
cutting up a pattern).

I always have another iteration of the pattern on a piece of flat
styrofoam and this is where I lay out the finished pieces, and line up
the piece I am grinding to see how the fit is going. I use straight
pins to pin it all out, and have been pretty successful at using a ton
of them to simulate the thickness of the foil (as well as hold it all in
place). If the gap is one pin all around I am happening. Then when I
foil I just remove the pins as I go along, except for the pins around
the edge, Then solder it all up.
Hope this helps,
Tomes

Interesting setup, Michelle. It is amazing what we come up with when we
look around for something that will work using what we have. My table now
is a big old beat up heavy dining room table that I screwed a full sheet of
5/8 plywood onto and braced up the legs with diagonal studs. Like a rock
now. I then staplegunned the carpet onto that, and mounted an electrical
strip and my iron temp control dial on the front.
Tomes

"michele" wrote in message
news
Actually, my usual work top is a piece of drywall. It covers the old
sliding glass door that is the table top. When i need the lights, i just
slide the drywall away and cut directly on the glass. (or on my butcher
paper pattern). I have 2 flourescent worklights under the glass.m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I like the carbon paper thought - have not tried that. Now I gotta try
it, thanks. I wish I still had my light table, but it was too big to move
out of the doorway when I moved, and there it stayed to my chagrin. I had
just cut (and routed) a rectangle in a big long table that was built by
previous owners in that room and laid a piece of thick clear glass into it
and a light beneath.

So you do your scoring right on your light table? I have my work table
covered with really short carpeting and I always thought that it used
that bit of flexing when scoring to help things along. I also guess that
you have conquered the other problem of it slipping around on the light
table when scoring - how?
Curious Tomes

"michele" wrote in message
...
i only use a cut out pattern when cutting black glass. I always lay the
glass right on top of the pattern and cut. that way you see the grain
direction of the glass, too. No pins, just frame the outside edges and
begin along one side or corner.Light table is handy for opaque glass,
also having carbon paper is handy. Just lay the carbon on opaque glass,
pattern on top, and trace the outline .m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained
glass. I have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am doing
okay with 'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern making'
there are so many different opinions on the best way to proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I
have a textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented
(read-overly picky about exactness). What are your preferences is
getting your pieces cut? for example, trace pattern right onto glass;
cut out pattern with pattern shears - then trace on to glass...you get
the idea. I know about leaving room for the foil, but some say to cut
your pieces so they fit exactly, others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like I
want it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

20 year hobbyist here. Don't worry about speed, especially at the
beginning. As Glassman notes it is all about the art of it. I take
some pride in skinny solder lines that indicate that the pieces fit
really well together (unless I want a thick line for some type of
effect).

I generally cut my pattern into pieces (with plain old scissors - it is
only paper photocopy), trace onto the glass using a paint pen, then cut
the line off best I can and then grind to accuracy. Yeah the line
washes off sometimes - I dry it off and replace it if I need to. Maybe
I don't need to. Sometimes I put the pattern on a light box and trace
the outline right on the glass if I am using clear enough glass (saves
cutting up a pattern).

I always have another iteration of the pattern on a piece of flat
styrofoam and this is where I lay out the finished pieces, and line up
the piece I am grinding to see how the fit is going. I use straight
pins to pin it all out, and have been pretty successful at using a ton
of them to simulate the thickness of the foil (as well as hold it all
in place). If the gap is one pin all around I am happening. Then when
I foil I just remove the pins as I go along, except for the pins around
the edge, Then solder it all up.
Hope this helps,
Tomes

I made a light table out of an old Studer two track recording machines that
I stripped all the electronics from...the top is a piece of 1/2 inch plate
glass from a salvaged table top with a flourescent light diffuser panel
mounted to it....it has 5 light fixtures mounted inside with single
flourescent lights in each fixture....

My work table is made from anther studer machine stripped with 5/8 inch
plywood top and 1/2 inch gyproc on top for soldering on....it also has a
backboard with power bar and temp control with pegboard for tools....mounted
on the top of the backboard is a two 48" flourescent tube fixture....

Both tables are on tube steel frames with heavy duty castors for easy
movement... I have a bigger table for bigger work with same plywood and
gyproc top....

I am just a hobbiest...but I like my tables....

Puffy
"Tomes" wrote in message
link.net...
Interesting setup, Michelle. It is amazing what we come up with when we
look around for something that will work using what we have. My table now
is a big old beat up heavy dining room table that I screwed a full sheet
of 5/8 plywood onto and braced up the legs with diagonal studs. Like a
rock now. I then staplegunned the carpet onto that, and mounted an
electrical strip and my iron temp control dial on the front.
Tomes

"michele" wrote in message
news
Actually, my usual work top is a piece of drywall. It covers the old
sliding glass door that is the table top. When i need the lights, i just
slide the drywall away and cut directly on the glass. (or on my butcher
paper pattern). I have 2 flourescent worklights under the glass.m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I like the carbon paper thought - have not tried that. Now I gotta try
it, thanks. I wish I still had my light table, but it was too big to
move out of the doorway when I moved, and there it stayed to my chagrin.
I had just cut (and routed) a rectangle in a big long table that was
built by previous owners in that room and laid a piece of thick clear
glass into it and a light beneath.

So you do your scoring right on your light table? I have my work table
covered with really short carpeting and I always thought that it used
that bit of flexing when scoring to help things along. I also guess
that you have conquered the other problem of it slipping around on the
light table when scoring - how?
Curious Tomes

"michele" wrote in message
...
i only use a cut out pattern when cutting black glass. I always lay the
glass right on top of the pattern and cut. that way you see the grain
direction of the glass, too. No pins, just frame the outside edges and
begin along one side or corner.Light table is handy for opaque glass,
also having carbon paper is handy. Just lay the carbon on opaque glass,
pattern on top, and trace the outline .m

"Tomes" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"badcatbailey" wrote in message
...
Well maby not so blindly, but it feels like it. I am new to stained
glass. I have been reading, taking classes, and practicing. I am
doing okay with 'cutting' my glass, but when it comes to 'pattern
making' there are so many different opinions on the best way to
proceed.

To some, the best way is the fastest, to others, the most accurate. I
have a textile background, and tend to be a bit detail oriented
(read-overly picky about exactness). What are your preferences is
getting your pieces cut? for example, trace pattern right onto glass;
cut out pattern with pattern shears - then trace on to glass...you
get the idea. I know about leaving room for the foil, but some say to
cut your pieces so they fit exactly, others so there is wiggle room.

I sure would like to learn from your experiences. I love what I am
doing...even when I make a mistake(s) or my glass doesn't break like
I want it to. Maybe I am still in the honeymoon stage. But I love
it!!

Thanks
badcatbailey

20 year hobbyist here. Don't worry about speed, especially at the
beginning. As Glassman notes it is all about the art of it. I take
some pride in skinny solder lines that indicate that the pieces fit
really well together (unless I want a thick line for some type of
effect).

I generally cut my pattern into pieces (with plain old scissors - it
is only paper photocopy), trace onto the glass using a paint pen, then
cut the line off best I can and then grind to accuracy. Yeah the line
washes off sometimes - I dry it off and replace it if I need to.
Maybe I don't need to. Sometimes I put the pattern on a light box and
trace the outline right on the glass if I am using clear enough glass
(saves cutting up a pattern).

I always have another iteration of the pattern on a piece of flat
styrofoam and this is where I lay out the finished pieces, and line up
the piece I am grinding to see how the fit is going. I use straight
pins to pin it all out, and have been pretty successful at using a ton
of them to simulate the thickness of the foil (as well as hold it all
in place). If the gap is one pin all around I am happening. Then when
I foil I just remove the pins as I go along, except for the pins
around the edge, Then solder it all up.
Hope this helps,
Tomes