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#11
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"Chip Orange" ) writes:
I worry that this is indicative of the decline in the needlework industry. My husband thought it might mean that with the economy waning from the 90's fewer people have access to computers. Jim, when you gave the numbers, you never speculated on the reason for the decline. Any ideas? Allie Orange Maybe I did not speculate, because I have no idea what the cause is. However, we must remember that Usenet is a very recent phemomenon,and many newsgroups which started up with high expectations, have simply disappeared. It may be that RCTN is settling into a more mature routine. I also like to hope that some of the high volume was caused by the flame wars we have had over the years. Again, as we mature, we may have learned how to be more tolerant of each other. -- Jim Cripwell. The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of one's life, any time that is spent in stitching. Adapted from a sign on The Cobb, Lyme Regis, England. |
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#14
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On 1/1/04 11:15 PM,"Seanette Blaylock"
posted: "Chip Orange" had some very interesting things to say about Number of posts on RCTN.: I worry that this is indicative of the decline in the needlework industry. My husband thought it might mean that with the economy waning from the 90's fewer people have access to computers. Or maybe it's just a lot of enthusiastic posters leaving the group due to various flamewars. :-( And as someone else postulated - there are many other virtual stitch groups now. Chat groups on Yahoo, on About Needlework, the ANG list, groups that chat from designer web-sites and many other places. Usenet was pretty much it years ago. I don't think the Needlework Industry on the whole is declining that much - it is the LNS that are hurting. The proliferation of web-shopping has done that. Many shops are surviving by doing e-business, or something else (my local that has most of the income from the frame shop, followed by the needlework portion of the shop & antique needlework boutique. Designers who sell directly to the public, retail - frequently LNS are stopping carrying them (why pay for the inventory if you're in competition to sell with the designer). I thought I saw some figures with more people actually having computer access. One of our good friends is a VP on the board of the WWW Consortium (my old grad school officemate) - I'll ask him. He always has all kinds of factoids on the computer and web subject. ellice |
#15
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Ellice wrote:
I don't think the Needlework Industry on the whole is declining that much - it is the LNS that are hurting. The proliferation of web-shopping has done that. Many shops are surviving by doing e-business, or something else (my local that has most of the income from the frame shop, followed by the needlework portion of the shop & antique needlework boutique. Designers who sell directly to the public, retail - frequently LNS are stopping carrying them (why pay for the inventory if you're in competition to sell with the designer). My dream is for shops to be more like the one in Monica Ferris' Betsy Devonshire mystery books. All encompassing. The knitters; the lace makers; the canvas, counted and surface embroiderers all come to Monday Brunch, oooh and ahh at each other's work, occasionally do something new. Dianne |
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In article , Ellice writes:
it is the LNS that are hurting. The proliferation of web-shopping has done that. Not necessarily. I had a fantastic LNS some years ago. Unfortunately, they were only open one evening per week, and not on Sunday. About a block away was a chain craft store, open every evening and all day on Sunday. For those of us who were at work during 90% of the LNS' open hours, the chain store was far more convenient, and cheaper, too. I've seen it with other types of stores, too. Grandpa was only open 10-5 M-F, Dad was only open 10-5 M-F, and therefore, we're going to do it just the way that's worked for 100 years. Unfortunately, what worked in the 1950s when most women were home during the day does not work in the 2000s when most women are at work downtown during the day. The shop owners complain about WalMart stealing their business, without ever considering how much additional business they could do if they were open the same hours as WalMart. I have to go out of my way to get to a WalMart, but I do *not* have to use precious vacation time to get there. If there were someplace in my neighborhood that I could buy this stuff after 6 PM, I'd shop in my neighborhood, but since the shops in my neighborhood are telling me they only want the business of people who don't work, I'll go to a store that accommodates my schedule. I appreciate that the LNS owner has a family and she'd like to be home with them in the evening, but she needs to realize that businesses operate for the convenience of the customers, not for the convenience of the owners. If we can't get there during her open hours, it's easier for us to find someplace that will serve us when we can shop, than to change our schedules to accommodate her. I've been mail-ordering for decades because by the time I get home from work, cook, clean up after dinner, and have time to shop, that's the only option that's available to me. Pre-dated substantially even the first beginnings of the internet. -- Finished 12/14/03 -- Mermaid (Dimensions) WIP: Angel of Autumn, Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, Guide the Hands (2d one) Paralegal - Writer - Editor - Researcher http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/KMC.html |
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On 1/2/04 5:39 PM,"Dianne Lewandowski" posted:
Ellice wrote: I don't think the Needlework Industry on the whole is declining that much - it is the LNS that are hurting. The proliferation of web-shopping has done that. Many shops are surviving by doing e-business, or something else (my local that has most of the income from the frame shop, followed by the needlework portion of the shop & antique needlework boutique. Designers who sell directly to the public, retail - frequently LNS are stopping carrying them (why pay for the inventory if you're in competition to sell with the designer). My dream is for shops to be more like the one in Monica Ferris' Betsy Devonshire mystery books. All encompassing. The knitters; the lace makers; the canvas, counted and surface embroiderers all come to Monday Brunch, oooh and ahh at each other's work, occasionally do something new. Isn't that just a dream shop. Having the boutique in the store is interesting - lots of linens, brings in different shoppers. No knitting in this shop. The framing business takes up a fair amount of space. I used to like just sitting in there and stitching - when I wasn't working. It's hard to find shops like that - but so nice when you do. For us, Stitch 'n Bitch night - well, formally "stitch night" is like that - folks just show up, and we all oooh and ahh - working on all different kinds of things. I think for most shop owners it's hard to have the inventory investment to really cover more than all the embroidery, or all the knitting/crocheting, and the lace making supplies seem to fall in with both - though IME the bobbins or shuttles are with the knitting shops most often. It's just a huge investment. And if you only carry partial bits - that's often not good as customers can't fully kit up their projects. What a conundrum. But, a good dream shop. Ellice |
#18
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Unfortunately, what worked in the 1950s when most
women were home during the day does not work in the 2000s when most women are at work downtown during the day. This is what I keep saying, too. The merchants downtown in our small city are always trying to find things to blame their poor business on, but it basically comes down to they are not sensitive to the needs of the modern customer- they are open 10:00-5:00 M,T,Th,F&S-they close at 1:00 on Wed. and are not open any evening hours, even at the holidays. If I work until 4:30 or 5:00, and need some little thing, do they think I'm going to wait until Saturday to get it? No, I'll run out to the nearest big box store and pick it up and more! SueS |
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On 1/2/04 6:43 PM,"Karen C - California" posted:
In article , Ellice writes: it is the LNS that are hurting. The proliferation of web-shopping has done that. Not necessarily. I had a fantastic LNS some years ago. Unfortunately, they were only open one evening per week, and not on Sunday. About a block away was a chain craft store, open every evening and all day on Sunday. For those of us who were at work during 90% of the LNS' open hours, the chain store was far more convenient, and cheaper, too. That is a big competition - but not for those buying painted canvas, or many designer charts. The chains carry lots of kits, but not so much of the higher end (for lack of a better term) material. Point blank - floss sales don't profit the LNS - most have to sell it at very close to cost, with a surprisingly low mark-up. It's there as you must have it for needlework. The chain stores, OTOH, can sell it at ridiculously low prices without hurting - they can afford it as a loss leader - it gets you in the store. And their quantity price is likely lower than the individual LNS prices. that's worked for 100 years. Unfortunately, what worked in the 1950s when most women were home during the day does not work in the 2000s when most women are at work downtown during the day. Sure, and smart shop owners find a way to accommodate with hours that work for working clients. The shop owners complain about WalMart stealing their business, without ever considering how much additional business they could do if they were open the same hours as WalMart. I have to go out of my way to get to a WalMart, but I do *not* have to use precious vacation time to get there. If there were someplace in my neighborhood that I could buy this stuff after 6 PM, I'd shop in my neighborhood, but since the shops in my neighborhood are telling me they only want the business of people who don't work, I'll go to a store that accommodates my schedule. That's sad, that you feel your local shops only want business of non-working folks. But, it pays for WalMart to be open, as they're not selling a specialty item only. Few folks just go to Wal Mart at 8:30 to buy some floss alone. When the LNS is open really late - we've found few folks really want to come shop then. They're tired - we might get browsers, but...In my friend's shop, we're open til 6 W and Fri, til 7 Tues & Thur, til 5 Sat & Sun. In this case, closing on Mondays let's the owner have some time off, and also do commercial work (framing) that may take her out of the shop. We do get a lot of people in the shop between 4:30 and 6:00 - and people know what days we're open til 7. But, point blank - it's not worth staying open later to just sell some floss. It seems that being open past most office closing times works pretty well. And having the weekend hours. The LNS nearer my house - she's open 7 days a week - and opens at 9:30, closing at 5:30, except the 2 nights she's open til 7:30. The monthly stitch night, the shop is essentially open - so people do come in and shop occasionally. Mostly - either we're in there - or it's browsers - there's a Safeway a few storefronts down. I appreciate that the LNS owner has a family and she'd like to be home with them in the evening, but she needs to realize that businesses operate for the convenience of the customers, not for the convenience of the owners. If we can't get there during her open hours, it's easier for us to find someplace that will serve us when we can shop, than to change our schedules to accommodate her. I've been mail-ordering for decades because by the time I get home from work, cook, clean up after dinner, and have time to shop, that's the only option that's available to me. Pre-dated substantially even the first beginnings of the internet. Essentially you prove part of my point. Mail order, web-order - serious dent in the LNS. For many working people - me when I was working - I did shopping on the way home from work - to make the 6 or 7 pm closing time. I might be stopping for a coffee to take with me - but that was the option. I don't know how a shop owner can stay in business and be successful if they're doing it for their own convenience. But, you also have to really figure out what the cost-benefit of staying open late, or later is. Some shops open late on a particular day to have a late shopping night. Heck, the skate place we use does that - they open at 12 2 days a week to stay open til 9, and are closed on Mon, Tues - because they're a zoo on the weekends -open from 8-8. I umderstand people using alternatives to LNS. Just pointing out some of what has contributed to their business difficulties, as opposed to assuming Needlework in general is declining. ellice |
#20
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Very few old-fashioned downtown merchants can afford to run businesses
in the way modern shoppers desire. Mind you, I'm basing this on my old hometown which has a population of about 2500. Small specialty stores were operated by the owner and maybe one or two assistants. The assistants were often family members. Most buildings were built from 1890-1925 and the majority have housed several types of shops over the years. The family lived in an apartment over the shop and crammed their car (if they had one) in the alley behind the shop. The grocery store and bank had parking lots in addition to what was available along the street. Otherwise there were only two or three parking spots available per store on average. The parking issue limited how many customers a shop could have and how many unrelated employees it could have unless the owner played chauffeur or made deliveries or encouraged alternate transportation such as bicycles (no taxis or public transit in towns this size). While my hometown did not have parking meters, many surrounding communities did. Friendly neighbors would pick up a few things for the ill or elderly if the store didn't offer deliveries. Shoppers walked to the post office and grocery store daily (except Sundays and holidays). No one had a 26 cu. ft. refrigerator in the kitchen, a mammoth deep freeze in the basement, and a "snack" refrigerator in the garage. People actually cooked meals and ate together as a family instead of individually popping things in a microwave at each person's convenience. Several generations of a family lived in the same town and they knew the store owners (and vice versa). While strolling to get the mail and the day's food shoppers would pick up anything else needed at the other stores. No one would think of buying fresh milk at a variety store or a pair of shoes or a hammer at the grocery store although such things might happen in much smaller or very remote communities that had only one or two stores. Along come the big chain stores. They buy vast tracts of property along major roads between "work" towns and "bedroom" towns but are close enough to both to be convenient to all who can drive or find transportation. They have 300+ parking spots. The buildings are new and built to their specifications with tons of storage space--assuming you don't mind shopping in a place that looks like a warehouse. They are open (in some regions anyway) 24/7 except for maybe a few hours off on certain holidays. They own their own distribution facilities, truck lines, and even some production facilities. When they do buy products from other companies, they order massive quantities at deep discounts to supply an entire region of the state or country. They have tons of employees who are often treated as faceless slaves and they have little pride in the job they perform. It is the customer's job to walk around and find whatever item they want. After all, the night stockers put the items on the labeled shelves. It isn't any employee's fault that other shoppers pick up items from one place and discard them in another. Some took the miserable job just for the employee discount. Downtown merchants are not making up excuses. Owners have tried to hang on as long as possible to serve loyal customers. A one- or two-person shop cannot be open 24/7. You also cannot afford to keep the shop open three or four extra hours per day on the off chance someone might come in and buy one skein of floss (or birthday card, a couple of nails...). Chances are that person will complain about paying 60 cents for it when they could get it for 25 cents five miles down the road at the chain store. Having a planned stitch night or such can pay off, but a general expansion of hours often does not. Some old downtowns have one night a week that all stores are open and parking is free to encourage business. Downtown associations often sponsor holiday walks and design gift certificates that can be used at any downtown store. In some places these gimmicks do work. That is, if anyone sees the ads. More people get news on tv or online or read only large-city or national newspapers instead of reading the local weekly newspaper. While the stores might benefit from advertising in a county-wide paper, they certainly can't justify ads in the Wall Street Journal or USA Today even if that is what the locals read. Buildings were not required to meet ADA standards a century ago and there simply isn't enough floor or sidewalk space available to install a properly-graded entry ramp. No matter how much you care for those who are not blessed with full mobility, if you have only two parking spots on the curb in front of your building, you weep when the government requires one to be reserved for the handicapped or the city takes one away to make a wide curb cut. As the stores around you close, vandalism goes up which means your insurance goes up. Or the other stores close and are turned into bars which drives away many customers and makes your location very undesirable in the evening. If you have employees who are not a member of your family, you would rather let them get a job somewhere else if you can no longer pay them a wage they can live on because you care about them and their families. But how can these stores compete with vertical integration? A jeweler with all the equipment can design and cast original pieces or do repairs that chain stores can't, a grocer might buy produce from local farms so it is literally just-picked fresh, and anyone can sell trinkets with the town name or school mascot. The owner can be on a first-name basis with all the old regulars (and friendly to new people) and know where everything is, how much it costs, and go above and beyond to serve the customers. Do any of those mean enough to a frazzled mother of four who has just put in a nine hour day plus an hour commute each way when she has exactly 28 minutes to feed her crowd before shuttling them off to evening activities? There is probably nothing those store owners can do which will attract this person on a regular basis. Unfortunately, occasional customers don't generate enough business to get the bills paid. How about the loyal customer of ten years ago who is now retired only to have lost their retirement money to the poor economy and the $3,000/month for health insurance/treatment/medicine? No matter how much this customer cares for you as a person and wants your business to succeed, pennies must be pinched. My old downtown was a busy place. Now the jeweler, the pharmacist, and the owner of the variety store are dead with no one to carry on those businesses. The florist, hardware store, and several others didn't make it through the farm crisis of the 80's. Owners of the lumber yard and appliance store retired. The old grocer died and, after running the business for several years, his son sold the store to the grocer from the next town over. A doctor's office came and went. There have also been legal, insurance and tax businesses over the years. Some buildings have decayed beyond use. The old soda fountain is still there but is only open semi-occasionally since the owner's children are scattered across the country and they like to go visiting. The post office, city hall, and bank are still there. A couple of hair salons are still there but the owners are nearing retirement; I think they keep working because they like the gossip. There are the ubiquitous bars, eateries (always changing ownership) and a laundromat to serve the people who now rent the apartments above all the storefronts. Skateboarders and loiterers hang out at night and destroy the curbs, benches, and greenspace. All in all, it has become a dismal place. I don't see much hope for it. The remaining buildings need major renovations to come up to code. I wish those who are holding on all the best. Shstringfellow wrote: This is what I keep saying, too. The merchants downtown in our small city are always trying to find things to blame their poor business on, but it basically comes down to they are not sensitive to the needs of the modern customer- they are open 10:00-5:00 M,T,Th,F&S-they close at 1:00 on Wed. and are not open any evening hours, even at the holidays. If I work until 4:30 or 5:00, and need some little thing, do they think I'm going to wait until Saturday to get it? No, I'll run out to the nearest big box store and pick it up and more! -- Brenda Lewis WIP: "Pink Baby" photo frame, Candamar |
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