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What is Tavolite?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 15th 03, 10:39 PM
None
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Default What is Tavolite?

Hello,

I'm a mewbe to the group. I am hoping for a little help.

I ran across an ad that has a Tavolite ring and necklace. The stone looked
nice so I thought I would see what it was.

Well Google gives me back only 4 or 5 hits! Meta and Dog pile are no help
either.

I know this is not some just recently discoverd new mineral or gem, so what
is it?

Thanks for your help.
Ads
  #2  
Old November 16th 03, 12:58 AM
Andrei Vesselovski
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"None" wrote in message
...
I ran across an ad that has a Tavolite ring and necklace. The stone

looked
nice so I thought I would see what it was.


I have reasons to believe that it's rather misspelled or "made up" name,
and I think that it could be:

TAVORITE - "glassy", green to yellow colour stone.

or

TSAVORITE - green variety of garnet.

or

TANVORITE - a trade name for a synthetic blue-purple stone.
( to address pupular Tanzanite demand)

I know this is not some just recently discoverd new mineral or gem, so

what
is it?


Unfortunately, gem traders often give minerals nick or trade names.
For example Padparadscha, Tanzanite or nonsense like Demantoid Garnet.


Best Regards
Andrei Vesselovski


  #3  
Old November 16th 03, 01:23 AM
Peter W. Rowe
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:58:29 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Andrei Vesselovski"
wrote:




I have reasons to believe that it's rather misspelled or "made up" name,


Agreed

and I think that it could be:

TAVORITE - "glassy", green to yellow colour stone.


Not commonly seen as a cut gemstone marketed to the public. Unlikely that this
was it.


TSAVORITE - green variety of garnet.


I'd guess that this was, at least, what the advertiser intended the reader to
think or relate to. Tsavorite is the real stuff, it's possilbe Tavolite is a
synthetic or glass of some sort, in a similar color. That would easily explain
the signficantly different spelling.

Tsavorite is not just any green garnet. It's green Grossular garnet, when the
color is due to chromium. lovely stuff. In it's best qualities, in my opionion
at least, it blows emerald right out of the water...


Unfortunately, gem traders often give minerals nick or trade names.
For example Padparadscha, Tanzanite or nonsense like Demantoid Garnet.


Trade names, perhaps. but silly or nonsense? The three you've mentioned are
among the most legitimately recognized such names, well accepted by the
gemmological community and in use for a significant time, each describing a well
known and defined gem, well understood as exactly what they are, at least for
the second two. Some confusion can exist in just which colors constitute a
Padparadsha sapphire, but certainly the gemological community and jewelry
industry has little trouble with any of these three. Tanzanite is indeed a
trade name, for a specific color variation of the mineral zoisite, but this is
certainly not some contested name, as there is no other recognized name for this
specific gem, and if you ask for blue/purple transparent zoisite, few folks
would know what you're talking about. . Demantoid garnet is no more a nonsense
name than Alexandrite Chrysoberyl. It's the long recognized and predominant
name for Andradite garnet when it occurs in a green to yellow green color range.
Demantoid, called as such, is a prized and rare gem. Ask for green Andradite,
and you'll usually get confused looks in return. Demantoid is no more
"nonsense" than the use of the word Amethyst for quartz which happens to be
purple in color.

Now, if you want misleading names, nicknames, and the like which really do
deserve to be used with the word "unfortunately", try "precious topaz", "smokey
topaz" "Mystic topaz" "Pigeon blood ruby", or terms like that, which can be
misleading, confusing, just plain wrong, or at least so loosely or subjectively
defined as to be not very useful in real communication

Peter Rowe
(your group moderator and also, by chance, a G.G., for whatever that's worth)

:-)
  #4  
Old November 16th 03, 01:25 AM
None
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Tavorite: BINGO!! Thanks.





  #5  
Old November 16th 03, 01:28 AM
Peter W. Rowe
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On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:25:41 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry None
wrote:

Tavorite: BINGO!! Thanks.





What do these stones look like?

All the references to Tavolite I've ever seen are simply mineral references,
suggesting it forms only smallish crystals. And with a hardness of only 5, it's
kinda soft for a ring. I've never seen one used as a cut stone in jewelry,
though that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course. My expectation would be
that cut stones would generally be marketed more as collector things for people
interested in collecting cut stones of odd materials, rather than it's being
used in mainstream jewelry.

Peter Rowe
(G.G., etc. etc.)
  #6  
Old November 16th 03, 04:30 AM
Andrei Vesselovski
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Unfortunately, gem traders often give minerals nick or trade names.
For example Padparadscha, Tanzanite or nonsense like Demantoid Garnet.




Trade names, perhaps. but silly or nonsense? The three you've mentioned

are
among the most legitimately recognized such names, well accepted by the
gemmological community and in use for a significant time, each describing

a well
known and defined gem, well understood as exactly what they are, at least

for
the second two.


I didn't say silly, -- I said trade names. And by nonsense, I meant that if
there
any logic in the Demantoid Garnet name, perhaps Ruby Spinel could be
considered as a legitimate name.

Some confusion can exist in just which colors constitute a
Padparadsha sapphire, but certainly the gemological community and jewelry
industry has little trouble with any of these three.


Actually, there are a lot of confusion with "Padparadsha":
http://www.padparadscha.info/No1/page1.htm

Now, if you want misleading names, nicknames, and the like which really do
deserve to be used with the word "unfortunately", try "precious topaz",

"smokey
topaz" "Mystic topaz" "Pigeon blood ruby", or terms like that, which can

be
misleading, confusing, just plain wrong, or at least so loosely or

subjectively
defined as to be not very useful in real communication


Agreed.

Best Regards
Andrei Vesselovski


  #7  
Old November 16th 03, 04:56 AM
Peter W. Rowe
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On , in rec.crafts.jewelry "Andrei Vesselovski" wrote:


I didn't say silly, -- I said trade names. And by nonsense, I meant that if
there
any logic in the Demantoid Garnet name, perhaps Ruby Spinel could be
considered as a legitimate name.


Well, there IS at least a little logic, or so thought the folks who gave it that
name way back when, in that it's high refractive index and surface luster are
higher than other garnets, and reminded folks of that seen in diamonds. So
Demantoid indicates that similarity in how bright and lively the stones are, a
similarity that's even more obvious when you remember that at the time that name
was given, diamonds were cut in "old mine" cut proportions, which can easily
look a lot more like demantoid garnets in terms of brilliance and dispersion,
etc, than do the much more pristine and perfect looking modern diamond cuts.
Demantoid at least indicates some derivative or resemblance to diamond. It's
not the same as saying "diamond garnet". "Ruby Spinel" doesn't change the word
ruby, so the use to indicate resemblance isn't as clear. On the other hand,
Rubellite tourmaline also derives it's name, or so it seems, from at least the
same root word as Ruby... So how about another derivation: Perhaps "Rubinesque
spinel"? To be used, of course, not for just any red spinel, but only those
with a noticably thick and rotund and perhaps well rounded cut (grin. You CAN
tell I'm joking, now, I hope... )

I don't really have a problem with gem names that may suggest some marketing
scheme or resemblance to some better known family of gems, so long as the normal
use of that term is reasonably consistant within the market, and not misleading.
Tanzanite is just a name. So is Tsavorite. While both may have been chosen
with marketing in mind (just as Alexandrite was chosen for political reasons),
this doesn't negate the fact that in both cases, the use of these names does not
confuse anyone as to the identiy of the stone. The name, chosen for whatever
reasons, is well understood consistantly within the gemological community and
within the public, at least those of the public who have any idea what gems are
about.


Some confusion can exist in just which colors constitute a
Padparadsha sapphire, but certainly the gemological community and jewelry
industry has little trouble with any of these three.


Actually, there are a lot of confusion with "Padparadsha":
http://www.padparadscha.info/No1/page1.htm


True enough, at the present time. But I submit that most of the current
confusion is recent, brought about by the development of new treatments, making
the identification and even definition of what is or is not a "real" padparadsha
sapphire more and more a muddy issue. But before these treatments and
synthetics and whatnot became available, the word was then clear enough. Of
course, as with any gem name that defines a color range, some will disagree with
the borderlines of that color range, but we see this with other gems too. When
is a ruby red enough to call ruby, or so pinkish that it cannot be called ruby
any more, but is pink sapphire? These distinctions are common enough in
gemology, and not the fault of the names. Padparadscha is also a color range,
and though it's somewhat more loosely defined depending on who you talk to,
There is little doubt about it's use for the finest examples, or the "target
color range". If people cannot quite decide what the best color is, or the
borderlines of the color that make this distinct from other sapphires, this can
be unfortunate, but it is not the fault of the name itself. The same would be
the case in almost any other name we might choose, from peachy/orangy sapphire,
to "Joe's sapphires". A similar case exists with emerald, a name we don't
question. But just what constitutes an emerald has, in the past, been up for
some discussion, with regard to nice light green beryls that were not green due
to chromium. The confusion is not with the name, but with the chemistry we'll
allow the name to be used for.

Put this next to the original topic of this thread, the identity of a stone
labeled or mislabeled "tavolite", and we see the confusion about just what is
or is not a padparadscha is a somewhat different issue. Here, we're wondering
whether that name is perhaps some unknown marketing name applied to probably
some well known common synthetic. For example, there are commercial brands of
synthetics where the brand name is used for any color available in that line,
and the line can include, depending on the color, flame fusion spinel or
corundum, triplets, doublets, or other synthetics, or even glass, yet they're
sold under that one name as a brand. THAT disguises the true identity of the
stones, perhaps to add marketing cachet and percieved value to otherwise cheap
junk.

cheers

Peter
  #8  
Old November 16th 03, 07:57 AM
will e
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"Andrei Vesselovski" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, gem traders often give minerals nick or trade names.
For example Padparadscha, Tanzanite or nonsense like Demantoid Garnet.


any logic in the Demantoid Garnet name, perhaps Ruby Spinel could be
considered as a legitimate name.

PWR wrote Now, if you want misleading names, nicknames, and the like which
really do
deserve to be used with the word "unfortunately", try "precious topaz",

"smokey
topaz" "Mystic topaz"


Hello Gents, The name andradite is for the Portuguese mineralogist,
d'Andrada. The demantoid variety of andradite is in allusion to its
adamantine luster. In addition to Peter's topaz list, there is a yellow
green variety of andradite called topazolite, it has some resemblance to
topaz. Will Estavillo


  #9  
Old November 17th 03, 12:21 AM
None
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Peter W. Rowe pwrowe@ixDOTnetcomDOTcom wrote in
:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:25:41 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry None
wrote:

Tavorite: BINGO!! Thanks.





What do these stones look like?

All the references to Tavolite I've ever seen are simply mineral
references, suggesting it forms only smallish crystals. And with a
hardness of only 5, it's kinda soft for a ring. I've never seen one
used as a cut stone in jewelry, though that doesn't mean it doesn't
exist, of course. My expectation would be that cut stones would
generally be marketed more as collector things for people interested
in collecting cut stones of odd materials, rather than it's being used
in mainstream jewelry.

Peter Rowe
(G.G., etc. etc.)


I may have been a little premature. The description seemed to match
though. (I only have an ad from Mervyn's to look at). Quite glassy,
predominately yellow green, BUT this stone appears iridescent.

As soon as I looked up tavorite and saw that it was only a hardness of 5, I
had my concerns.
  #10  
Old November 17th 03, 12:27 AM
Peter W. Rowe
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On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:21:52 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry None
wrote:

I may have been a little premature. The description seemed to match
though. (I only have an ad from Mervyn's to look at). Quite glassy,
predominately yellow green, BUT this stone appears iridescent.

As soon as I looked up tavorite and saw that it was only a hardness of 5, I
had my concerns.


one might also observe that Mervyn's isn't exactly known as a fine jewelry
seller. Much of what they sell is costume. It seems very unlikely to me that
they'd be selling anything with a very unusual stone in it. Tavorite isn't even
listed as a gemstone in most gemological texts, but is known as a mineral, and
sold usually as mineral specimins. Certainly, if it exists as a mineral in big
enough sized crystals, it could be cut. But i've not seen it in cut form
before. (haven't looked for it either though).

Given an impression of what sorts of jewelry Mervyn's normally carries, I'd
guess the two possibilities would be either actual tsavorite, with the ad
simply being a bad misspelling, or more likely in my opinion, it's glass or some
other green synthetic material used to imitate tsavorite.

Peter
 




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