masters

As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our
skills -

But to find
1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing,
can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their
absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of:
- jewellery
- silversmithing
- metalsmithing

or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic
forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling
etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one
technique..),
or
- name the absolute masterpiece

2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible
- do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others

Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject

regards
norwick

norwick wrote:

But to find
1. the ultimate masters

There is no such person

absolute/ultimate masters

Ditto

- name the absolute masterpiece

There is no such thing



Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject

And what makes you think Peter has the "ultimate/absolute" answer.

Maybe you should consult the Pope.

Mastery is a process not a state

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:13:12 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry "norwick"
wrote:

As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our
skills -

But to find
1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing,
can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their
absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of:
- jewellery
- silversmithing
- metalsmithing


You're request implies that someone could manage to be the best at something. But
that just doesn't happen. We all, as artists and craftspeople, are better at some
things than others, and there may well be a number of fine craftspeople who've
become regarded as "masters" of their craft. But when you toss in that word
"absolute", you're asking for people that cannot be defined, as there is often no
good definition of what's best. As an example, an artist like Abrasha has
achieved considerably mastery and reputation for his craftsmanship and design. He
certainly deserves the term "master", and likely has a degree somewhere that
claims as much. But there will be many other jewelers who simply don't design the
way he does, and are not drawn to his refined and simpler lines, preferring more
organic, perhaps even complex and convoluted or even just cluttered, designs.
Which is best? That's a matter of personal opinion. And in the arts, where
beauty if something defined individually by each person, what constitutes "best"
for one, may seem ugly and stupid to someone else, equally qualified as an
observer and critic.

Now, if you only wish to find people who's work is worthy of study and admiration,
without trying to determine ranking, then there are many many indeed. Where
should I start? Some of the folks who's expertise and mastery of something,
perhaps just teaching itself, who've had an impact on me include folks like Fred
Fenster, Richard Thomas, Stanley Lechtzin (some of my teachers). Some who's work
has particularly impressed me and who's names happen to occur to me include Mary
Lee Hu, Albert Paley, John Paul Miller, Peter Carl Faberge, Charles Lewton-Brain,
James Binnion, Valentin Yatkov (spelling?), Giovanni Corvaja, our very own
Abrasha, and many many more. Too many to list, and many just as, or more,
impressive than these few who's names immediately popped into my mind. None of
these folks would ever claim to be "THE master" of much of anything (excepting of
course Salvador Dali..., who pretty much did make that claim), but most will admit
that they've gotten pretty good at what they do. If a viewer agrees, and can
learn something from the person or his/her work, then I suggest that this is about
all one can hope for. No ranking is really possible, or desirable.

or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic
forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling
etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one
technique..),
or
- name the absolute masterpiece

The human mind. But even then only sometimes. Can rise to astounding levels of
genius, inspiration, and greatness, and in the next moment, sink to levels of
astounding stupidity, cruelty, and blindness... As to objects and products of
fine minds, again, one person's masterpiece is another's odd blunder.


2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible
- do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others


Now you're asking for everyone's trade secrets. Not too likely. :-)

But a hint. Often it's just the result of looking at the impossible from a
different angle. Other times it's simply the result of dogged persistence and
practice. It's usually not some cheap trick, if it's actually worthy of notice.
There are, of course, plenty of things that only appear impossible because the
viewer is ignorant of the method or technology. Laser welders, for example, can
do things apparently impossible if you don't know about the existence of, or
capabilities of lasers. For that matter, if you didn't know about lost wax
casting, but only knew fabrication from sheet and wire, many pieces of jewelry
would appear amazingly impossible to make. One man's science is another man's
magic...


Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject

I'm flattered. But look at Abrasha's take on that. he's got it about right, I
think. I'm your group moderator, and sometimes I flatter myself into thinking I'm
a half way decent goldsmith (before I come to my senses). But "guiding hand"?
You're putting me on a pedestal I've not earned.

Peter

Looks like norwick got his answeres real quick, but for my 2 cents, you got
the best in the newsgroups, not sure who would be #1 or #2, But if you want
the answers and info straight up, then you have the best around!



Jim

"norwick" wrote in message
...
As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our
skills -

But to find
1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing,
can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their
absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of:
- jewellery
- silversmithing
- metalsmithing

or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic
forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling
etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one
technique..),
or
- name the absolute masterpiece

2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible
- do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others

Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject

regards
norwick

norwick wrote:

As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our
skills -
But to find
1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing,
can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their
absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of...........


Abrasha responded :

'There is no such thing'

'Mastery is a process not a state'


Quite right - that is the point.

But if it is only merely a process there would be no end result, the
achievement would in doing it.
But still we don't destroy our work as the Chinese master who spent all
his life in trying to make the perfect pot - and when he felt he had
achieved it - he broke it.

Still
there are people who may have our respect, who in our eyes may have
reached the level of a 'master' in what they do.
We accept terms 'master class' when tutoring at certain achievement
level, - we don't consult the upper spheres for permission to call them
a 'master' of their art.

can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their
absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of....


So let's descend to the lower spheres to the ordinary toil of life; -
are there any people we may admire, whom we feel have reached that
point of mastery.

This site is read by many people, at different levels of skills and
education. Not all are fluid in English expressions and familiar with
its minute philosophical nuances.

Some of us are just starting, while others may have professional
qualifications as 'master goldsmiths' or silversmiths. Some of us are
just reading books on the subject while others have won honours in
competitions.

The term 'absolute master' in the questioner's mind was merely a
secular term.
It was only a question of that piece of work or a maker whom the reader
personally felt was the best, whom he/she admired.
The ultimate/absolute was added to limit the list to one/two.

There is a point in asking this.

Those of us still learning, want to see the ultimate aim or what
can/could be achieved.
Remembering that some of us do not live in big cities with finest, top
quality galleries and never may have an opportunity to see the best
examples of jewellery/silversmithing skills.

The internet has given us a chance to glimpse and to explore. But to
see the best,
or to be given the opportunity to see what is possible, what some
talented people can
achieve (often after years of practice) is extremely valuable to those
who have no
access to big libraries, or are unable to visit the exhibitions in USA,
UK or Germany...

When you view the world from the top of the tree, it is not crowded.
When you are learning, there are people you accept are better than you,
whom you admire and respect. You could say that it is the ultimate aim
you want to achieve - that skill of mastery, perhaps one day.

That is it...

On skill level it is a matter of ability to do something well or
perfectly. You could say that there is a perfect solder seam - an
absolutely perfect solder seam (no bubbles, no excess etc), there is a
perfect invisible setting of diamonds, - these are skills.
This site (I understood) is/was a craft/skill based - therefore words
perfect/absolute are secular and valid.

Peter again:
Which is best? That's a matter of personal opinion. And in the arts, where beauty
if something defined individually by each person, what constitutes
"best" for one, may seem ugly and stupid to someone else, equally
qualified as an observer and
critic.

The visual totality of parts is perhaps that absolute best Peter talks
about, that elusive effect, that personal preference or matter of
taste....


2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible. - do any of you want to
share these techniques/achievements with others..

Peter responded with:
Now you're asking for everyone's trade secrets. Not too likely.

If we all thought like this we would only be passing on old/learned
skills...what a sad world we have. It was only a thought...
(Ganoksin, some other sites and Abrasha may then be exceptions...?)

Peter:
Now, if you only wish to find people who's work is worthy of study and
admiration,
without trying to determine ranking, then there are many many indeed.
Where should I start?

Here Peter has the advantage of education, skill, talent and
location...
I was appealing to those with that advantage to pass on some of their
knowledge and learning...

Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject
this was added referring to the above thought in mind.

regards
norwick

norwick wrote:
As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our
skills -

But to find
1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing,
can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their
absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of:
- jewellery
- silversmithing
- metalsmithing

or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic
forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling
etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one
technique..),
or
- name the absolute masterpiece

2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible
- do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others

Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject

regards
norwick



Share our techniques?
As Peter has so eloquently and politely replied ,not likely,
Ill go further than that and say its rather nieve of anyone to expect,
let alone ask to be give for free , what in most cases has taken a long
time and a great deal of effort to achieve. Especially if its
commecially valuable.
See in the archives, the thread I started called "the right to know"
Thats not to say your prevented from trying to find your own way to
achieving what as you say, appears impossible.
If its been done before then theres nothing to stop you from
achieving it yourself other than your own limitations.
If its not in you then no amount of trying will do it.
Share our achievements?
Any craftsmans/artists work has to speak for itself.
If you see something you really want then its made the connection
between the maker and the person wanting the item.
Any artist /craftsman that has dealt extensively with his own
clientele will know this process.
To help you see where im coming from im at
http://freespace.virgin.net/ted.frater/index.htm
Now heres a chance for anyone who cares to try,
a simple task.
Design and make a new hinge and clasp for a 2 part bracelet.
All you have available as tools are
your files, jewelers saw ,ordinary hammers pieces of wood, and the
usual polishing materials.
the material? 1/4in round rod in any non ferrous metal, from brass to
silver and or gold.
Hinges and catches in jewelery are notoriously difficult to make in
such a way that the customer cant break them in use.
Lets see what everyone comes up with.
Ted Frater.

Ted Frater wrote:

To help you see where im coming from im at
http://freespace.virgin.net/ted.frater/index.htm

Not much to see there.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

norwick wrote:
norwick wrote:




SNIP

A great site with craftsmanship of the highest order: The Internet
Craftsmanship Museum (http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/)

This site is set up by "The Joe Martin Foundation for Exceptional
Craftsmanship". Joe Martin is the man who produces the Sherline lathe,
mill, etc.

There truly is a collection of exceptional work on that site. Masters
all, in their own way. Also check out some of the links to some of the
individuals own web sites. Some of my favorites: Wm. Dubin (in
Machining as an Art Form), Young C. Park and Gerald A. Wingrove MBE (he
was awarded the honor of Member of the Order of the British Empire by
Quessn Elizabeth) (both in Model Makers). Check out Gerald Wingrove's
sites at http://www.geraldwingrove.com/ and http://www.wworkshop.net/.
You'll **** in your pants with admiration and envy at the same time.
Wilhelm Huxhold (in Model Engineering), Barry Jordan (in Model Tool
Builders).

After having spent a few hours looking at the work of all of these and
more people, you'll get a bit of an insight of who I consider to be
masters in their craft, and what kind of work I consider to be master
pieces.

Take the time to look at this work.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Ted Frater wrote:

Share our techniques?
As Peter has so eloquently and politely replied ,not likely,
Ill go further than that and say its rather nieve of anyone to expect,
let alone ask to be give for free , what in most cases has taken a long
time and a great deal of effort to achieve. Especially if its
commecially valuable.
________________________

Naive? Maybe you mean something I'm just
__completely__ missing?

Exactly how is Ganoksin not a clear
counterexample?

______________________
Counterexamples from another field:

I'm writing to you from a mozilla, a free browser/mail client on
GNU/Linux, a free operating system. Both exist because people
contributed their knowledge freely.
Have a good read at:
http://www.gnu.org

My ISP uses the Apache server.
The free Apache server under Linux is the most common on the net, and
Linux is making strong inroads on the desktop.
http://www.apache.org/

The free Perl programming language is the glue that sticks the net
together. For more info about this Swiss Army Chainsaw, see:
http://www.perl.org/
....along with the thousands of contributed modules that make it strong:
http://www.cpan.org

So, everything we're communicating together depends on things you claim
do not exist. Or, am I being naive?
--
mbstevens http://www.mbstevens.com

Ted Frater wrote:


Share our techniques?
As Peter has so eloquently and politely replied ,not likely,

Thankfully not everyone shares that sentiment. Take a look at my
"Process" pages.

Ill go further than that and say its rather nieve of anyone to expect,
let alone ask to be give for free , what in most cases has taken a long
time and a great deal of effort to achieve. Especially if its
commecially valuable.

Oh please!

To help you see where im coming from im at
http://freespace.virgin.net/ted.frater/index.htm

Where's the beef?!?

Now heres a chance for anyone who cares to try,
a simple task.
Design and make a new hinge and clasp for a 2 part bracelet.
All you have available as tools are
your files, jewelers saw ,ordinary hammers pieces of wood, and the
usual polishing materials.
the material? 1/4in round rod in any non ferrous metal, from brass to
silver and or gold.
Hinges and catches in jewelery are notoriously difficult to make in
such a way that the customer cant break them in use.
Lets see what everyone comes up with.

Why don't you show us how you do it. I have shown how I do it.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com