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Gage sizes of silver and copper wire



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 20th 08, 09:54 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
gloflyer
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Posts: 8
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

If a wire is a certain gage is that size constant across different
types of metal?

I used my disc cutter with 22 gage sheet copper and 18 gage copper
wire to make discs and jump rings until I had a design that I liked
for a necklace.

I then attempted to make the same design with Argentium silver.

The Arg sheet behaved in ways similar to the copper.

When I went to make the jump rings, the 18 gage Arg silver seemed to
be not as robust. I can lay the silver and copper side by side on the
table and feel that the copper is larger in diameter.

I know that the copper is stiffer, but it also was bigger.

Is this just a fluke? Did I get mislabeled wire, or are they supposed
to be different?

I would not use 18 gage wire again to hold the washer shapes
together. My design has redundency, 3 jump rings hold each pair of
discs.

I have tried to keep everything labeled and separate when I buy new
supplies. My wire still has the original tag on it from the supplier.
This makes me think that I should get a wire and sheet gage.

Linda
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  #2  
Old February 20th 08, 06:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
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Posts: 298
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

gloflyer wrote:

This makes me think that I should get a wire and sheet gage.


You don't say!

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #3  
Old February 20th 08, 06:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
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Posts: 298
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

gloflyer wrote:

This makes me think that I should get a wire and sheet gage.


You don't say!

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #4  
Old February 21st 08, 08:12 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
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Posts: 133
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

gloflyer wrote:
If a wire is a certain gage is that size constant across different
types of metal?

I used my disc cutter with 22 gage sheet copper and 18 gage copper
wire to make discs and jump rings until I had a design that I liked
for a necklace.

I then attempted to make the same design with Argentium silver.

The Arg sheet behaved in ways similar to the copper.

When I went to make the jump rings, the 18 gage Arg silver seemed to
be not as robust. I can lay the silver and copper side by side on the
table and feel that the copper is larger in diameter.

I know that the copper is stiffer, but it also was bigger.

Is this just a fluke? Did I get mislabeled wire, or are they supposed
to be different?

I would not use 18 gage wire again to hold the washer shapes
together. My design has redundency, 3 jump rings hold each pair of
discs.

I have tried to keep everything labeled and separate when I buy new
supplies. My wire still has the original tag on it from the supplier.
This makes me think that I should get a wire and sheet gage.

Linda


Metal for making things, not only jewellery, come in different
hardnesses even tho they measure the same size.
Take copper for example,
it can be dead soft when it has been fully annealed , or half hard or
hard depending on how it has been cold worked.
do you followthis?
If you dont, come back and say what you dont understand and well explain
further.

as to getting a wire or sheet thickness gauge, you best bet is to get a
vernier gauge, this can be either a non digital or digital one.
Used by most engineering folk to take simple measurements of all sorts
of things, from wire sheet rounds etc.
Usually from zero up to 6 in , in either metric or imperial in 100ths
of a mm or 1000 of an inch. Will do all youll ever need.
A cheap chinese will do you just fine.
No need for a fancy Mitutoyo or similar.
Most engineering suppy places stock them. Dont buy till you try tho.



  #5  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:10 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
lemel_man
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Posts: 22
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

Ted Frater wrote:
...snip

as to getting a wire or sheet thickness gauge, you best bet is to get a
vernier gauge, this can be either a non digital or digital one.
Used by most engineering folk to take simple measurements of all sorts
of things, from wire sheet rounds etc.
Usually from zero up to 6 in , in either metric or imperial in 100ths
of a mm or 1000 of an inch. Will do all youll ever need.
A cheap chinese will do you just fine.
No need for a fancy Mitutoyo or similar.
Most engineering suppy places stock them. Dont buy till you try tho.


I'll second that. I never use "standard" wire gauges, there are just too
many different ones. There is no confusion when you use proper values
like inches or millimetres.

The "good" thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.


--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)
  #6  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:10 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
gloflyer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

Ok - my basic question still remains.

Is 18 gage wire the same size in different metals? - I think so but
am not sure.

I know the difference in hardness. That is not the problem. One is
physically thicker than the other. The copper I bought in a hardware
store. The silver from a reputable supplier.

I am not sure where to find an engineering supply store. I recently
tried to buy a compass. That was a disaster. They are so worried
about school kids stabbing each other that most of them come with a
little nub instead of a good point. I went to an office supply store
and bought what I thought I wanted. It was so packaged that I
couldn't try it. It has no mechanism for tightening it once it is set
to the width I want.

A size gage is $28. So I think that I will try the calipers.
  #7  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:10 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Edward Hennessey[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire


"gloflyer" wrote in message
...
If a wire is a certain gage is that size constant across different
types of metal?

I used my disc cutter with 22 gage sheet copper and 18 gage copper
wire to make discs and jump rings until I had a design that I liked
for a necklace.

I then attempted to make the same design with Argentium silver.

The Arg sheet behaved in ways similar to the copper.

When I went to make the jump rings, the 18 gage Arg silver seemed to
be not as robust. I can lay the silver and copper side by side on the
table and feel that the copper is larger in diameter.

I know that the copper is stiffer, but it also was bigger.

Is this just a fluke? Did I get mislabeled wire, or are they supposed
to be different?

I would not use 18 gage wire again to hold the washer shapes
together. My design has redundency, 3 jump rings hold each pair of
discs.

I have tried to keep everything labeled and separate when I buy new
supplies. My wire still has the original tag on it from the supplier.
This makes me think that I should get a wire and sheet gage.

Linda


L:

For this application even a very inexpensive plastic vernier caliper with a
direct scaled read will be fine. You could go with a more sophisticated
version that reads out on a dial but I would avoid an electronic model as
superfluous to your purpose and because you must keep them in batteries.
Vernier calipers are also nice because most models allow you to take both
inside and outside dimensions.

If you care-or think you might care in the future--about the finest
precision measurement of outside dimensions you can spring for a mechanical
micrometer in the smallest reading range. Information on all of these
instruments is ubiquitous. Look under "dimensional metrology" or
simply the last word within those quotations for more.

Wire and sheet gauges are handy shortcuts for mensuration to dedicated
standards. However, if you ever want to stray from those in fixing sizes,
the aforementioned calipers
or a micrometer are your better bets.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


  #8  
Old February 22nd 08, 06:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Fred Zweig
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Posts: 13
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire




Is 18 gage wire the same size in different metals? - I think so but
am not sure.


18 gauge in non ferrous metals is not the same as 18 gauge in iron or
steel.

The use of gauges to measure metal thickness can cause confussion.
These are some of the available gauges used in the world.

S.W.G British Imperial Standard Wire Gage
J.de.P. Paris Wire Gage
B.W.G Birmingham Wire Gage
W.G. Westphalia Wire Gage
B. & S. Brown and Sharp Wire Gage
B.G. Standard Birmingham Sheet and Hoop
A.S.W.G. American Standard Wire Gage.
U.S.S U.S. Standard for Sheet and Plate Iron and Steel
W. & M. Washburn and Moen Gage

Only the ASWG and M&W use the same gauge number to designate the same
thickness. All the others are different.

None ferrous metals such as silver, gold, brass, copper are measured
with a Brown and Sharp Gauge (B&S). The gauge will usually say "For
use with non ferrous metals".

I know the difference in hardness. That is not the problem. One is
physically thicker than the other. The copper I bought in a hardware
store. The silver from a reputable supplier.


You are correct that the thickness may vary from different suppliers.
Since silver is measured by weight and not length the silver supplier
is not concerned whether the gauge is exact to industry standards.

I am not sure where to find an engineering supply store. I recently
tried to buy a compass. That was a disaster. They are so worried
about school kids stabbing each other that most of them come with a
little nub instead of a good point. I went to an office supply store
and bought what I thought I wanted. It was so packaged that I
couldn't try it. It has no mechanism for tightening it once it is set
to the width I want.

A size gage is $28. So I think that I will try the calipers.


Some hardware stores may carry B&S gauges and even vernier calipers.
Your silver supplier probably has an inexpensive brass slide caliper
that will do the same basic job as the more expensive vernier
calipers.

Hope this helps,
Fred

  #9  
Old February 23rd 08, 03:49 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Sarit Wolfus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Gage sizes of silver and copper wire

The gage scale is a standard measure scale, regardless of the material
being measured. See for example the conversion tool at
http://www.Pasternakfindings.com/converter.asp (select the gage
conversion on top).

I suspect that your original copper and silver wires differ in
diameter. To verify this, use a caliper. If you don't own one,cut a
piece of the same length from both wires, weight and divide by (pi x
length x weight density). The square root of the result would be the
radius of your wire.
Sarit.
http://sarit-jewelry.com

gloflyer wrote:
If a wire is a certain gage is that size constant across different
types of metal?

I used my disc cutter with 22 gage sheet copper and 18 gage copper
wire to make discs and jump rings until I had a design that I liked
for a necklace.

I then attempted to make the same design with Argentium silver.

The Arg sheet behaved in ways similar to the copper.

When I went to make the jump rings, the 18 gage Arg silver seemed to
be not as robust. I can lay the silver and copper side by side on the
table and feel that the copper is larger in diameter.

I know that the copper is stiffer, but it also was bigger.

Is this just a fluke? Did I get mislabeled wire, or are they supposed
to be different?

I would not use 18 gage wire again to hold the washer shapes
together. My design has redundency, 3 jump rings hold each pair of
discs.

I have tried to keep everything labeled and separate when I buy new
supplies. My wire still has the original tag on it from the supplier.
This makes me think that I should get a wire and sheet gage.

Linda

 




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