Diamond advice needed

First of all, your posts and comments are welcome-- that's why I asked
for them. Secondly, thanks for all the comments and even criticism. I
need the criticism/cynicism/discouragement to counter-balance my
optimism (which is still so far here).

I think that you've misunderstood my intentions-- and I'm probably at
fault for not making myself clearer. I did try to somewhat clarify in
my last post that I am not trying to get into your `insular',
`monopolized', only-the-rich-can-talk-to-wholesalers industry. I'm
traveling around Asia, and I'd like to pick up a diamond *or two*-- not
millions of dollars of diamonds-- and re-sell them in the U.K. I
didn't come up with this idea out of the blue. Firstly, a *layman*
friend of mine who only knew about as much as I do about diamonds was
*fortunate* enough to meet a jeweller in India that he became friends
with. That jeweller helped my friend buy about $5000 Cdn. worth of
diamonds from a wholesaler, at wholesaler price. Sure, that was a
lucky one. But anyways, in his case, he was able to easily re-sell the
diamonds privately in Canada (and he didn't have buyers lined up before
this) and recover his travel expenses. He was in India anyways, just
like I'm going to be. This isn't a special diamonds trip for me.
Also, my mother-in-law in London has for years bought diamonds from
pawn-broker shops and re-sold them at a profit to other pawn-brokers.
She has a natural eye for good diamonds-- as blasphemous as that may
sound to the GIA-certified diamond experts on this newsgroup. She
hasn't taken any two-year GIA diamond courses. So through her, I also
know of some pawn-broker shops who would be interested in purchasing
diamonds.

Another thing that I didn't make clear is that I also plan to browse
pawn-broker shops in India/China... or do you think they won't talk to
me either? True, I can't really expect GIA certificates from them, but
the price that I'll buy whatever I buy will hopefully reduce the
financial risk involved. Although some of the pawn-broker shops in the
tourist traps like Rajasthan might have been scouted by antique dealers
and people like that, India is still a large country with many places
to shop. Not all the jewellery/antique/pawn shops have been scouted.
And finally, one of the options that I'm considering is to get the
diamonds mounted in a ring or a pair of earrings. This way, even if
here is no difference or gain to be made in re-selling the diamond
itself, there would hopefully be some gain by selling a finished piece
of jewellery (since the labour in India is much cheaper).

Last, as I said in my last post, I am not about to buy something based
on an on-line appraisal on a usegroup. No offence, but you are
overestimating the importance that I'm giving to you. I'm simply using
the Internet as *one* tool to learn more about diamonds and buying
them. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have already benefited
from your advice/cynicism. For example, I admit that it never occured
to me that a diamond could be treated/enhanced *after* the grading
report for it has been acquired. I just never thought of it. So it's
helped me in some way to have come on this newsgroup and talked to you.
It will make me a more careful buyer. But I can't go to the extreme
cynicism that you're expressing either. I can almost guess at your
response-- "Oh, you'll be `careful', is it? And HOW exactly, pray
tell, will you be `careful', my foolish friend?" Well there probably
won't be any fool-proof plan... but for the above problem, for example,
I might take the purchased diamond to an independant appraiser, to see
if the diamond's description on the grading report matches what I've
brought to him/her. If even then you say that the appraiser might not
know, or even the jeweller might not know... well then, heck, the
average pawn-broker in London probably won't know either, and so I
don't need to know either! If only some professional grading lab is
going to be able to detect treatment, well then I don't need to be as
concerned, do I? Because the person I'm selling to won't be able to
detect the treatment either. Of course, ethically, I wouldn't sell it
as an untreated diamond if I knew otherwise. But if I and even
professional jewellers/appraisers can't determine that, then the
pawn-shops in London probably can't either... and so ignorance is
bliss, as the saying goes...


Your feedback *is* welcome.

Last, as I said in my last post, I am not about to buy something based
on an on-line appraisal on a usegroup. No offence, but you are
overestimating the importance that I'm giving to you. I'm simply using
the Internet as *one* tool to learn more about diamonds and buying
them. I don't see anything wrong with that. I have already benefited
from your advice/cynicism.

Well, sounds like you've got it all covered then.Best of
luck..............

"Mukherjee" wrote in message
...

If even then you say that the appraiser might not
know, or even the jeweller might not know... well then, heck, the
average pawn-broker in London probably won't know either, and so I
don't need to know either!

Never underestimate a pawnbroker.

I assume you'll be declaring your purchases at the point of entry into the
UK, paying duty and VAT on it based on a valuation by HM Customs & Excise.

Or are you going to do a bit of smuggling as well?

Pawnbrokers don't pay VAT...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea

And finally, one of the options that I'm considering is to get the
diamonds mounted in a ring or a pair of earrings. This way, even if
here is no difference or gain to be made in re-selling the diamond
itself, there would hopefully be some gain by selling a finished piece
of jewellery (since the labour in India is much cheaper).

If someone came in to my shop to sell an item of jewellery I could only
buy and sell it on as second hand at a fraction of the true value.
Unless I have had dealings with you before and know your company and
your reps, buying items from the public regardless of the brand new
condition will always recieve a low payment. They couldnt be sold as
brand new, (imagine buying your girlfriend an expensive ring from a
jeweller only to find out that it had been worn by someone else for a
year or so. It is only ethics to label it as what it is.). Customers
are always disappointed by the low renumeration we offer for modern
second hand jewellery. This reflects the difficulty it is to sell, but
more importantly we can buy an identical brand new item at much less
from our usual suppliers. We dont buy a ring for =A3100 from our
suppliers and sell it for =A3105, we have to make a living as
well....its called mark-up.

Also be careful who you get to set the stones when you are in
Asia/Africa/Middle East, we see so many people just back from their
holidays with a nice 5 stone sapphire ring, but one fell out on the way
home. Dont get me wrong the sapphires are genuine and of good quality
but the rushed setting and often the mounts are of very poor quality. A
tip would be to buy your stones from one place and search out a good
setter else where. The whole buy your stone and get it set infront of
you places are all about the merchant selling stones and throwing in
the setting for free. Similar to buying a good TV and getting a rubbish
VCR thrown in.

At the end of the day I am sure that if you get the right chances you
and make some money to pay for things while you are travelling and I
applaud your give it a go attitude. The worst case scenario is that you
have a few expensive souvenirs of you travels( a good quality well cut
diamond will hold its value anywhere in the world, so dont expect to
pick things up for a few hundred dollars, diamonds are diamonds and
cost money!)

I end by saying if it was that easy to have your traveling costs paid
for buy a browse around the local markets, we would all be joining you
in India!!

Good Luck
Alasdair Bickerstaff

"William Black" wrote in message
...

"Mukherjee" wrote in message
...

If even then you say that the appraiser might not
know, or even the jeweller might not know... well then, heck, the
average pawn-broker in London probably won't know either, and so I
don't need to know either!

Never underestimate a pawnbroker.

I assume you'll be declaring your purchases at the point of entry into the
UK, paying duty and VAT on it based on a valuation by HM Customs &
Excise.

Or are you going to do a bit of smuggling as well?

Pawnbrokers don't pay VAT...

I kn ow it's bad form to answer one's own post, but...

Don't forget 'conflict' or 'blood' diamonds.

Her Majesty's Government has recently taken a great interest in these
because Sierra Leone is a wholly owned subsidiary of the aforementioned HMG
and so they take a very dim view indeed of people who shoot at British
soldiers while pinching diamonds from various East African countries.

A dim view to the extent that you can guarantee some jail time if they catch
you with them, and a reasonable certainty of being caught as they've
developed some sort of technology to detect them.

Wandering the world carrying diamonds of unknown provenance is a really good
way to get into really serious trouble.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea

Mukherjee schrieb:
First of all, your posts and comments are welcome-- that's why I asked
for them. Secondly, thanks for all the comments and even criticism. I=

need the criticism/cynicism/discouragement to counter-balance my
optimism (which is still so far here).
=20
I think that you've misunderstood my intentions-- and I'm probably at
fault for not making myself clearer. I did try to somewhat clarify in
my last post that I am not trying to get into your `insular',
`monopolized', only-the-rich-can-talk-to-wholesalers industry. I'm
traveling around Asia, and I'd like to pick up a diamond *or two*-- not=

millions of dollars of diamonds-- and re-sell them in the U.K. I
didn't come up with this idea out of the blue. Firstly, a *layman*
friend of mine who only knew about as much as I do about diamonds was
*fortunate* enough to meet a jeweller in India that he became friends
with. That jeweller helped my friend buy about $5000 Cdn. worth of
diamonds from a wholesaler, at wholesaler price. Sure, that was a
lucky one. But anyways, in his case, he was able to easily re-sell the=

diamonds privately in Canada (and he didn't have buyers lined up before=

this) and recover his travel expenses. He was in India anyways, just
like I'm going to be. This isn't a special diamonds trip for me.
Also, my mother-in-law in London has for years bought diamonds from
pawn-broker shops and re-sold them at a profit to other pawn-brokers.
She has a natural eye for good diamonds-- as blasphemous as that may
sound to the GIA-certified diamond experts on this newsgroup. She
hasn't taken any two-year GIA diamond courses. So through her, I also=

know of some pawn-broker shops who would be interested in purchasing
diamonds.
=20
Another thing that I didn't make clear is that I also plan to browse
pawn-broker shops in India/China... or do you think they won't talk to
me either? True, I can't really expect GIA certificates from them, but=

the price that I'll buy whatever I buy will hopefully reduce the
financial risk involved. Although some of the pawn-broker shops in the=

tourist traps like Rajasthan might have been scouted by antique dealers=

and people like that, India is still a large country with many places
to shop. Not all the jewellery/antique/pawn shops have been scouted.
And finally, one of the options that I'm considering is to get the
diamonds mounted in a ring or a pair of earrings. This way, even if
here is no difference or gain to be made in re-selling the diamond
itself, there would hopefully be some gain by selling a finished piece
of jewellery (since the labour in India is much cheaper).

Labour in India is cheaper than in UK, this is true. Why diamonds or=20
jewels should be cheaper in India than in Europe or USA?
Couse of enormous transport costs?
Not really. :-)
Price is the best at that places wich trade most. So I have traders wich =

buy with me in M=FCnchen and sell sometimes in small villages 50=20
Kilometers away.


Gr=FC=DFe,
Heinrich Butschal

--=20
www.schmuck-boerse.com
www.meister-atelier.de
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