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#201
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Happiness is
On Oct 7, 8:50 pm, Jangchub wrote:
That said, there are many other issues I have with McCaine. His love for and hugging of Bush is enough. Then the nukular came out. I was done. She said nukular, but you can't even get his name right. No E at the end, Vic. |
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#203
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Happiness is
Jangchub wrote:
NObody thinks of Israel as Asia merely because it is on the tip of the continent. I do. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#204
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Happiness is
Dr. Brat wrote: Jangchub wrote: On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:33:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote: which ASIAN ideals do you want to adopt ??? Asia is an Enormous Continent !!!! Bobbie tells us that in Japan Young people of both genders respect each other , but on other ASIAN countries women are stoned if they smile to a another man , Thieves hands are cut off , As a woman you can be smacked for not covering your hair ,,,, etc..... When you same Some of the Asian Ideas ,, you better specify which ....ps your Budihism , is also coming from Asia ,,, As came the roots of Chritianity , etc,,, mirjam Bethleham is in Asia? Israel is in Asia? Where in Asia do they wear a Birka? India? That's overpopulation and what you get from it. You aren't Asian so best to keep your yap shut. Victoria Victoria ,, I advise you to open AN ATLAS [ you know that book with World maps ,} and look carefully where Asia is ???? Did you find it ,,,,,, good on the west side of Asia there is a very tiny country on the beach of the Mediterenean and it is called Israel ,,,,IN ASIA !!!! now in Israel there is a place called BETH LEHEM , where Jesus was born ,,,,,, As to Burka [not Birka] , it is worn in many countries [ mainly Iran Iraq, Pakistan ,,but not in India ,,, Killing women for FAMILY HONOR happens not only in countries where they are forced to wear a Burkah ,,, but why Bother with facts , when you already think you know everything.... Bedouin woman that don`t don`t wear a Burkah are also killed for `honor`,,, mirjam The world does not consider Israel as Asian. Get off it. You are in what the entire world refers to as the Middle East. You are not Asian. Your eyes are not slanty. Once again you took what I said in a literal sense and twisted it. The world DOES consider the Middle East to be Asian. And not all Asians have slanty eyes! Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, to name but just a few are Asian. Elizabeth And my dear DIL HAS slanty eyes, and is from Japan, which is the other side of Asia from Israel. Still Asian!! Gillian |
#205
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Happiness is
Jinx Minx wrote:
Although YOU may not consider Israelis "Asian" by "race", the rest of the (more enlightened) world does. Ask ANY Israeli, Pakistani, or (East) Indian what "race" they are, and they will all answer Asian. My daughter, by the way, is not Israeli. Ok, I need to quibble with this. Israel is in Asia, but not all Israelis are Asian. The Ashkanazy are quite definitely European. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#206
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Asian or not Asian was Happiness is
I don't want to argue with anyone, but I thought maybe some of the words
being used might have different meanings to different posters. Here's what I understand them to mean and maybe it might be a starting point to clearing up the disagreements? Only hoping to clarify - not wanting to hop into the debate, OK? The continent of Asia is very large. It stretches from the Far East to Europe and from the Arctic circle to to tip of the Malay Peninsula. It comprises many ethnic groups and is the most diverse of all the continents. There are the mongoloid peoples of the Far East, for example. These people have uniformly black hair and pronounced epicanthic folds which make their eyes appear 'slanted' as folk literature used to say. (I have to add here that my daughter also has pronounced epicanthic folds - no one knows why - but she's of 100% Celtic ethnicity. Go figger!) Anyway, the term 'mongoloid' does *not* refer to someone who has Down Syndrome, it's an anthropological term that groups the people whose descent is from the tribes of central Asia - Genghis Khan and his mob. Asia also contains people of caucasian ethnicity. That means, their distant ancestors are thought to have originated in the Caucasus mountains in Russia. These folk have fair skin and their hair colour varies widely. Rudolf Nureyev was a Tatar - a race that shares common features with the people of Mongolia and Manchuria. That's why he had that *scrumptious* exotic look! (Well... *I* liked it very much: may he rest in peace!) There are other peoples in Asia as well. The semitic people of the Middle East, the turkic peoples, the malay folk and the people who originated in the Indus valley, whose racial origins are so old and so diverse. I don't know nearly as much about all this as I want to, but the point is that the word 'Asian' covers a vast number of people and, by *far* the vastest number of people on the globe. Lumping the mongoloid races together and calling them 'Asian' as an umbrella term isn't really polite. I'm sure their vastly different views of themselves, their cultures and philosophies should allow them the dignity of seeing themselves as separate peoples in this modern age. Likewise, divorcing the caucasian and other races from their proper asiatic status isn't very polite either. While it may not fit a western person's *idea* of what's Asian and what's not, the people in question certainly view themselves as being Asian and have been viewed as such by the rest of the world since before Galileo! The status of the peoples from Central America confuses me as (not living in that part of the world), I have little to go on. All I do know is that the two continents, North and South America, comprise yet another diversity of cultures. I assume the Central Americans would count themselves as South American, but have really no idea. Can anyone enlighten me please? Oh, one last thing. AFAIK, the term 'oriental' is exactly the one that refers to the people of the mongoloid races. I've never heard of it being offensive in any way and have Chinese and Malaysian friends who use it in reference to themselves (as in: 'that's just me going all oriental again!') I'd be interested to hear from any oriental person who does find it offensive so I can learn why. IME, 'oriental' is simply the opposite of 'occidental' and carries no other slur...? If anything I've written here is incorrect, then please do correct me! I'm always interested in getting it right! LOL! HTH, -- Trish Brown {|:-} Newcastle, NSW, Australia |
#207
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Happiness is
Jangchub wrote:
[snipped] Oh I don't think so. If we had to give a race to Israeli people it would be caucsaian. It's the middle east. First you said your daughter is Asian, now you say she isn't Israeli. What does that have to do with this debate? I am not enlightened and there is no such thing as "more enlightened." You either are, or aren't. What do you call Arabs; Asians? By your debate angle, all N. Americans would be considered N. American. I wonder what the tens of millions of Mexican's would say about that. Mexico is in North America, Vic. [snip] The people who I love the most are from China, Tibet, Nepal, and Bhutan, India, etc. They are all called Asian. I said nothing about "slanty eyes." That was your slanader. No, actually, you said "slany eyes" before anyone else did. Go look. One last thing, I am part Russian and wouldn't call myself Asian in any shape, way or manner. I am caucasian with Russian and Italian descent. Russians aren't Asian. Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#208
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Asian or not Asian was Happiness is
Trish Brown wrote:
Lumping the mongoloid races together and calling them 'Asian' as an umbrella term isn't really polite. I'm sure their vastly different views of themselves, their cultures and philosophies should allow them the dignity of seeing themselves as separate peoples in this modern age. Likewise, divorcing the caucasian and other races from their proper asiatic status isn't very polite either. While it may not fit a western person's *idea* of what's Asian and what's not, the people in question certainly view themselves as being Asian and have been viewed as such by the rest of the world since before Galileo! My colleague from Sri Lanka calls himself Asian. The status of the peoples from Central America confuses me as (not living in that part of the world), I have little to go on. All I do know is that the two continents, North and South America, comprise yet another diversity of cultures. I assume the Central Americans would count themselves as South American, but have really no idea. Can anyone enlighten me please? Mexico is North America, south of there to Colombia is Central America, which culturally and historically is not South America, but Central America. Oh, one last thing. AFAIK, the term 'oriental' is exactly the one that refers to the people of the mongoloid races. I've never heard of it being offensive in any way and have Chinese and Malaysian friends who use it in reference to themselves (as in: 'that's just me going all oriental again!') I'd be interested to hear from any oriental person who does find it offensive so I can learn why. IME, 'oriental' is simply the opposite of 'occidental' and carries no other slur...? In the United States, "Oriental" is considered impolite, although I'm not really clear on why. I suspect it's because it means Eastern and that direction only works from a Euro-centric point of view. If you're in Asia, it's not to the east, is it? Elizabeth -- *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
#209
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Asian or not Asian was Happiness is
"Trish Brown" wrote in message ... I don't want to argue with anyone, but I thought maybe some of the words being used might have different meanings to different posters. Here's what I understand them to mean and maybe it might be a starting point to clearing up the disagreements? Only hoping to clarify - not wanting to hop into the debate, OK? The continent of Asia is very large. It stretches from the Far East to Europe and from the Arctic circle to to tip of the Malay Peninsula. It comprises many ethnic groups and is the most diverse of all the continents. There are the mongoloid peoples of the Far East, for example. These people have uniformly black hair and pronounced epicanthic folds which make their eyes appear 'slanted' as folk literature used to say. (I have to add here that my daughter also has pronounced epicanthic folds - no one knows why - but she's of 100% Celtic ethnicity. Go figger!) Anyway, the term 'mongoloid' does *not* refer to someone who has Down Syndrome, it's an anthropological term that groups the people whose descent is from the tribes of central Asia - Genghis Khan and his mob. Asia also contains people of caucasian ethnicity. That means, their distant ancestors are thought to have originated in the Caucasus mountains in Russia. These folk have fair skin and their hair colour varies widely. Rudolf Nureyev was a Tatar - a race that shares common features with the people of Mongolia and Manchuria. That's why he had that *scrumptious* exotic look! (Well... *I* liked it very much: may he rest in peace!) The only thing I would correct is that Nureyev should RIP. He was a great dancer but he scared my friends teenage son ****less when he made a pass at him at a party and wouldn't take no for an answer. He finally left Lewis alone when they convinced him that he was only 17 and was jailbait. According to Lewis, he was drunk as a skunk and really obnoxious. The poor kid, who was doing some modeling to make college money, wanted to quit the business but his agency talked him out of it and promised he wouldn't have to attend any of those wild parties anymore. Lucille There are other peoples in Asia as well. The semitic people of the Middle East, the turkic peoples, the malay folk and the people who originated in the Indus valley, whose racial origins are so old and so diverse. I don't know nearly as much about all this as I want to, but the point is that the word 'Asian' covers a vast number of people and, by *far* the vastest number of people on the globe. Lumping the mongoloid races together and calling them 'Asian' as an umbrella term isn't really polite. I'm sure their vastly different views of themselves, their cultures and philosophies should allow them the dignity of seeing themselves as separate peoples in this modern age. Likewise, divorcing the caucasian and other races from their proper asiatic status isn't very polite either. While it may not fit a western person's *idea* of what's Asian and what's not, the people in question certainly view themselves as being Asian and have been viewed as such by the rest of the world since before Galileo! The status of the peoples from Central America confuses me as (not living in that part of the world), I have little to go on. All I do know is that the two continents, North and South America, comprise yet another diversity of cultures. I assume the Central Americans would count themselves as South American, but have really no idea. Can anyone enlighten me please? Oh, one last thing. AFAIK, the term 'oriental' is exactly the one that refers to the people of the mongoloid races. I've never heard of it being offensive in any way and have Chinese and Malaysian friends who use it in reference to themselves (as in: 'that's just me going all oriental again!') I'd be interested to hear from any oriental person who does find it offensive so I can learn why. IME, 'oriental' is simply the opposite of 'occidental' and carries no other slur...? If anything I've written here is incorrect, then please do correct me! I'm always interested in getting it right! LOL! HTH, -- Trish Brown {|:-} Newcastle, NSW, Australia |
#210
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Happiness is
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:01:39 -0500, "Jinx Minx" wrote: I'm not Buddha, never said I was. Frustrated, not angry. Profanity? A word I hear every day all the time? Hmmm. I don't wear white gloves, sorry. Asian is a race of people. Israeli's are not part of the Asian race. It is not just geography, there is an entirely different culture which Asian RACE people have. Since you are filtering me, so long. If you recall, the argument was Mirjam telling me I was sub-human for having compassion for the pilots who drove into the Twin Towers. Nobody says that to me without at least a heated debate. Again, so long, I'm sorry, have a good life. Victoria Good lord, child, this is some of the most offensive diatribe I've ever seen. My daughter doesn't have "slanty eyes" and has nothing in common with your "Asian culture", yet she's every bit as "Asian" as someone from China or Japan. When it comes time for her to apply for colleges and jobs, just what "race" box do you suggest she mark on her applications? If she wants to mark her race she'd mark it as Asian. MY Asian culture? Huh? So if she's as Asian as anyone else in Japan or China, and if she was born of Asian raced parents, she'd be Asian. IN ASIA, the culture is much superior to our American ineptitude and to understand most of their concepts. There's also a box she can check if she doesn't want to mark her race down. What did I say about YOUR daughter or "slanty eyes?" That was your term. No, slanty eyes is not my term. You told Mirjam she wasn't Asian because she didn't have slanty eyes. Whether my daughter opts for the "choose not to respond" checkbox is irrelevant to the point at hand. I seriously want to know. Although YOU may not consider Israelis "Asian" by "race", the rest of the (more enlightened) world does. Ask ANY Israeli, Pakistani, or (East) Indian what "race" they are, and they will all answer Asian. My daughter, by the way, is not Israeli. Oh I don't think so. If we had to give a race to Israeli people it would be caucsaian. It's the middle east. "If we had to give a race to Israeli people"?? What the hell kind of bull**** is that?! Are they born raceless? And who are YOU to decide they would be caucasian?! That's absolutely priceless!! LMAO First you said your daughter is Asian, now you say she isn't Israeli. What does that have to do with this debate? By example, it has everything to do with this debate, which just further proves how much you don't "get" it. I am not enlightened and there is no such thing as "more enlightened." You either are, or aren't. Oh, ok---more "philosophically mature". What do you call Arabs; Asians? By your debate angle, all N. Americans would be considered N. American. Another example of how clueless you are. North American isn't a race, which is the discussion at hand. I wonder what the tens of millions of Mexican's would say about that. They are Latino and even If a Latino/Latina were born in N. America, including Mexico they'd still be Mexican decent, and if I said that to any Mexican friend of mine they'd agree. There are probably 140,000 Mexican people living in my city of 600,000 people. I think I know Mexican people. My friend Gloria is a PhD at UT and she teaches sociology. She's brilliant, Buddhist, way farther along the path than I and she sees herself as indigenous Mexican. Further, in her research there may be something to say about before he continents divided that, indigenous Mexican peoples have perhaps a bit of Asian features. Some Mexican people look Tibetan, even to our resident Geshe (a monk who has a PhD in Buddhist theology after spending 23 years of studying and memorizing more texts than I've read in my entire life). You're only proving my point, not yours. How do you define who belongs to the "caucasian" race or the "African American" race for that matter? And why do Americans get to define it for the rest of the world? "Race" encompasses more than just physical characteristics and color. Furthermore, your "Asian culture" isn't a singular way of being. Chinese "culture" is different from Japanese, is different from Vietnamese is different from Tibetan. Ethnocentric attitudes like yours are exactly why the rest of the world hates us. And burkas don't come from "overpopulation". Jinx Are you kidding me? You don't know how I'd be able to determine caucasian from African (talking about people of color now, not the caucasians from Africa, then they are caucasians, so yes of course by color. Are you one of those who say you don't see color? Sorry, I see color and there is something very offensive about saying you can't see differences. When differences are okay to see, the world will change. I never, ever said or even hinted that I don't see color differences. And I probably know a lot more about them than you. I've heard people calling Asians from China, Japan, etc. "oriental" and that is offensive to them. Oriental refers to objects, not people. American Asians call themselves Asians. Israeli's call themselves Israeli, not Asian so this discussion is so ridiculous I can't believe I am in it still. Hey, you started the discussion on what constitutes Asian race and culture, not anyone else. Yes, Israelis call themselves Israeli because of citizenship or culture, but it isn't their "race". Mirjam and I have had our differences, but how dare you tell her she's not Asian because YOU define it so!! Further, I will go out on the limb and say there are quite possibly more Israeli's in America, New York in particular, than there are in Israel. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with anything. Oh wait, my mother is a Jew. Does that make me Israeli? I mean Asian. I mean, what do I mean? Give me a break. What a clueless **** you are. Give US a break. Culturally speaking, China, Japan, let's call it the Pacific Rim (sheesh), they do have somewhat similar customs or should I say traditions where we have a big blotch of ill fated BS (so your tender eyes won't see a commonly used word in slang all across the land). I don't have tender eyes. I couldn't give a f* what words you use as long as you use them correctly. We could take a good lesson from the PACIFIC RIM Asians who have utter respect for their elders and the whole family takes care of one another and they also have their attrocities as well. Israeli people also share this tradition, most of the time, not all. I like their (China's) remedy of one child only, but their hill toward having boys and leaving girls out to whatever happens (in some not all cases). We could stand to adopt some of those traditions to lower our poisonous world, Asia included. Ethnocentric attitudes? The world hates us for our brazen, obnoxious people like YOU perhaps, who make believe there are no differences in the human race. Once again, I never, ever said or implied that I don't see differences in the human race. The only obnoxious person in this debate is you. Yes, it is all one human race, many of us are very different. Unless you've lived in any of the countries mentioned or even traveled to any of them and stayed long enough to learn the customs and traditions, you cannot say for sure what their differences are. If you have your PhD in sociology, you may have some cred, but unless you have experience with having immigrants of these cultures ascimillating into our dumb ways in 'merka (as our monkey mind president calls it) you cannot prove anything you say. Well actually, my degrees are in anthropology and South Asian Studies, so yes, I do know a thing or two about definitions of race and culture, especially those pertaining to ASIANS. Where's your cred? I can't either. This is a debate. Stop with all this offense. If you were balanced NOBODY could ever offend you. Regarding your spew as offensive is not the same thing as being offended. The only unbalanced one here is you. You're a kook, and every time you open your big mouth you prove it more and more. The people who I love the most are from China, Tibet, Nepal, and Bhutan, India, etc. They are all called Asian. I said nothing about "slanty eyes." That was your slanader. No it wasn't, dimwit. It was yours. If you are offended, do yourself a favor and ignore me. It's very easy to do. I still can't believe you don't think overpopulation can create conditions where fundamentalism becomes hostile. One last thing, I am part Russian and wouldn't call myself Asian in any shape, way or manner. I am caucasian with Russian and Italian descent. Unless you want to hold a debate where others don't always say everything you want them to say as not to offend you (which is impossible anyway) maybe this should be the final words we should have. Impossible? I never said I was offended. I said your diatribe was offensive. Everything you've said about race, culture and what the rest of the world thinks is wrong, woefully so. I'm just calling you it. Go ahead and call for final words--it's only because you know you're wrong and you can only dig yourself further into the hole you crawled out of recently. You want to be offended? Look at what Donald Rumsfeld told the American sheep. Now you will have a more specific reason why the world hates us. Victoria BAAAA!!! Jinx |
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