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best white gold?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 05, 02:17 AM
m4816k
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Default best white gold?

14k vs. 18k?
Palladium vs. nickel?

Which brings the best white color? Thanks!



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  #2  
Old July 6th 05, 10:57 AM
Abrasha
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m4816k wrote:
14k vs. 18k?
Palladium vs. nickel?

Which brings the best white color? Thanks!





Best white gold? That is like asking, "What is the best root canal?"
There is no such thing as white, white gold.

Besides which, it is a contradiction in terms.

Don't use it. If you want white, use Platinum, Silver, or (if possible)
stainless steel.

White gold! It is such "Dreck"!

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

  #3  
Old July 7th 05, 04:18 PM
Sarit Wolfus
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I wouldn't recommend using nickel based white gold. Many people are
allergic to nickel and that's why nickel containing jewelry are
prohibited in many places.

White gold is never really white. It is yellowish. To obtain the white
look you have to rhodium plate it. I never plate it and make white gold
jewelry items only for customers who approve and like this natural
yellowish color.
In general, I try to avoid using white gold. Not a pleasant material to
work with.
Sarit.
http://sarit-jewelry.com


m4816k wrote:
14k vs. 18k?
Palladium vs. nickel?

Which brings the best white color? Thanks!



  #4  
Old July 7th 05, 04:31 PM
Peter W.. Rowe,
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On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:16:56 -0700, in ¤õ "m4816k"
wrote:

14k vs. 18k?
Palladium vs. nickel?

Which brings the best white color? Thanks!



As other posts will have suggested, there are lots of mixed feelings about white
gold. Abrasha's comment in particular sums up the feelings of many, including
myself.

Nevertheless, while white golds can be highly unpopular with those who actually
have to work with the stuff, it remains popular enough with those who buy and sell
jewelry made with it, since they're not the folks who have to struggle to make the
metal do what is desired.

In general, the palladium based white gold alloys are usually reasonably
workable, but have a tendancy towards a darker color, variously described as
brownish or yellowish. But this isn't universal. Depending on the particular
alloy, some are better color than others, generally in my experience, at the
expense of that workability. If you don't mind the darker toned color, some of
the palladium based white golds can be decent enough to work with. You still have
issues with solders being different hardness or color, and frequent problems with
porosity in casting, depending on your casting methods, but nevertheless, it can
be workable.

Nickle based white golds are different. They vary a great deal in color, from
decidely yellowish, to very very white. The very white alloys can be almost the
same color as platinum, and get that by very high percentages of nickle. These,
unlike most other white golds, are white enough so as to not require or benefit
from rhodium plating. However, in general, whether they are workable or not
depends on whether one is talking to a goldsmith or a metals dealer. The sellers
will present them as workable, and they can indeed be cast, and with good
equipment, rolled and drawn, etc. But if you talk to the goldsmiths (many of us)
you'll find a degree of hate and disgust that may amaze you. The better color
white golds, especially the high nickle 18K alloys, can be actually harder than
your steel tools (I have hammers with distinct dents in them from the white gold),
and brittle enough and unpredictable enough as to be sometimes almost unworkable.
I know at least one diamond setter who actually quit his job when his employer
switched to these alloys. He said he simply could not raise beads in the stuff,
and it was ruining his hammer handpiece, his hands, and his self confidence. he
quit and went somewhere else, where they were working mostly in platinum. Now
he's a happy camper... And I myself have had jobs where I was supposed to
fabricate something in these white golds where, after multiple tries to get the
metal to cooperate, I've simply given up and made the thing in platinum. Platinum
is more costly, of course, but I figured the time it was going to save would make
up the difference. I always, by the way, tell my employer when I've done this,
making sure he understands the economics of his decision to specify white gold in
these orders, in the no doubt vain hope that someday he'll agree with me and just
dump the stuff. hasn't happened yet.

So what's the best white gold?

That's easy. Platinum.

Peter


  #5  
Old July 8th 05, 01:46 AM
C Ryman
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Default

My parents wedding bands are 14k gold base with a raised band of white gold
with a comma pattern. I think the nice rich gold base makes the white gold
appear pretty white.
What ever the white gold is it's pretty tough. There is very little wear or
scratching after decades.
--
CR

"Sarit Wolfus" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't recommend using nickel based white gold. Many people are
allergic to nickel and that's why nickel containing jewelry are
prohibited in many places.

White gold is never really white. It is yellowish. To obtain the white
look you have to rhodium plate it. I never plate it and make white gold
jewelry items only for customers who approve and like this natural
yellowish color.
In general, I try to avoid using white gold. Not a pleasant material to
work with.
Sarit.
http://sarit-jewelry.com


m4816k wrote:
14k vs. 18k?
Palladium vs. nickel?

Which brings the best white color? Thanks!





  #6  
Old July 8th 05, 09:37 AM
Heinrich Butschal
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Posts: n/a
Default

Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:16:56 -0700, in =A4=07=F5 "m4816k"
wrote:
=20
=20
14k vs. 18k?
Palladium vs. nickel?

Which brings the best white color? Thanks!


=20
=20
As other posts will have suggested, there are lots of mixed feelings ab=

out white
gold. Abrasha's comment in particular sums up the feelings of many, in=

cluding
myself.
=20
Nevertheless, while white golds can be highly unpopular with those who =

actually
have to work with the stuff, it remains popular enough with those who b=

uy and sell
jewelry made with it, since they're not the folks who have to struggle =

to make the
metal do what is desired.
=20
In general, the palladium based white gold alloys are usually reasona=

bly
workable, but have a tendancy towards a darker color, variously describ=

ed as
brownish or yellowish. But this isn't universal. Depending on the pa=

rticular
alloy, some are better color than others, generally in my experience, =

at the
expense of that workability. If you don't mind the darker toned color=

, some of
the palladium based white golds can be decent enough to work with. You=

still have
issues with solders being different hardness or color, and frequent pr=

oblems with
porosity in casting, depending on your casting methods, but nevertheles=

s, it can
be workable.
=20
Nickle based white golds are different. They vary a great deal in colo=

r, from
decidely yellowish, to very very white. The very white alloys can be a=

lmost the
same color as platinum, and get that by very high percentages of nickle=

=2E These,
unlike most other white golds, are white enough so as to not require or=

benefit
from rhodium plating. However, in general, whether they are workable o=

r not
depends on whether one is talking to a goldsmith or a metals dealer. T=

he sellers
will present them as workable, and they can indeed be cast, and with go=

od
equipment, rolled and drawn, etc. But if you talk to the goldsmiths (m=

any of us)
you'll find a degree of hate and disgust that may amaze you. The bette=

r color
white golds, especially the high nickle 18K alloys, can be actually har=

der than
your steel tools (I have hammers with distinct dents in them from the w=

hite gold),
and brittle enough and unpredictable enough as to be sometimes almost u=

nworkable.
I know at least one diamond setter who actually quit his job when his e=

mployer
switched to these alloys. He said he simply could not raise beads in t=

he stuff,
and it was ruining his hammer handpiece, his hands, and his self confid=

ence. he
quit and went somewhere else, where they were working mostly in platinu=

m. Now
he's a happy camper... And I myself have had jobs where I was supposed=

to
fabricate something in these white golds where, after multiple tries to=

get the
metal to cooperate, I've simply given up and made the thing in platinum=

=2E Platinum
is more costly, of course, but I figured the time it was going to save =

would make
up the difference. I always, by the way, tell my employer when I've do=

ne this,
making sure he understands the economics of his decision to specify whi=

te gold in
these orders, in the no doubt vain hope that someday he'll agree with m=

e and just
dump the stuff. hasn't happened yet.
=20
So what's the best white gold? =20
=20
That's easy. Platinum.


I agree with the suggesgion of Platinum. However there is a run to=20
highest purity. And especially these Platinum alloys migth be made with=20
cobalt. This one is greyish and not at all attrakive white. Very nice is =

Platinum with 12,5 % Iridium and/or a little bit copper for better=20
casting or soldering.

Last week i used a 14 karat whitegold with palladium and a little bit=20
copper and nickel. The result was a very fine white, fair to cast,=20
reasonable hard, very good to warp and perfect to polish.

So I can=B4t find that white gold is rubbish. Sometimes by melting or=20
alloying whitegold is more delicate to get brittle.

Mit freundlichem Gru=DF,
Heinrich Butschal

--=20
www.schmuck-boerse.com
www.meister-atelier.de
www.schmuckfabrik.de
www.royal-magazin.de

  #7  
Old July 10th 05, 06:38 AM
Rick Cook
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Posts: n/a
Default

Heinrich Butschal wrote:
Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:

[[Looooong quote snipped by moderator...]]

Mit freundlichem Gru=DF,
Heinrich Butschal

--=20
www.schmuck-boerse.com
www.meister-atelier.de
www.schmuckfabrik.de
www.royal-magazin.de

Let me ask another question about 'white golds'.

How easy is it to solder white gold to yellow gold? The discussion got
me thinking of a design using a yellow gold base with white gold
decoration soldered on.

I'm thinking here of a true white gold or even a high-nickle gold alloy
since the white gold wouldn't be resting in constant contact with the skin.

--RC

  #8  
Old July 10th 05, 06:45 AM
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 22:38:36 -0700, in ¤õ Rick Cook
wrote:

Let me ask another question about 'white golds'.

How easy is it to solder white gold to yellow gold? The discussion got
me thinking of a design using a yellow gold base with white gold
decoration soldered on.


Easy to do. Both yellow gold solders or white gold solders can be used. The
decision is mostly one of which color solder will better fit the design needs.

I'm thinking here of a true white gold or even a high-nickle gold alloy
since the white gold wouldn't be resting in constant contact with the skin.


Um. So just what do you consider "true" white gold? Do please remember that
there is no pure gold that is anything other than bright yellow when in it's
normal massive metallic form as we use it.. All white gold alloys are mixes of
yellow gold with other metals, usually either using nickle or palladium to
"bleach" out the yellow color to an acceptable degree of whiteness. So what do
you consider "true"?

I'm reminded of one only somewhat humerous interchange with a customer once, who'd
been told by some ignorant mall store sales girl, or perhaps it was from some home
shopping channel thing on TV (don't recall which) , that white gold came from a
different type of gold mine than yellow gold... No amount of careful discussion
or detailed explanation of alloying could convince this woman that white gold was
an alloy of ordinary and usual yellow gold with other metals to make it white.

Peter
  #9  
Old July 10th 05, 11:31 AM
Heinrich Butschal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Peter W.. Rowe, schrieb:
=2E....
I'm reminded of one only somewhat humerous interchange with a customer =

once, who'd
been told by some ignorant mall store sales girl, or perhaps it was fro=

m some home
shopping channel thing on TV (don't recall which) , that white gold cam=

e from a
different type of gold mine than yellow gold... No amount of careful d=

iscussion
or detailed explanation of alloying could convince this woman that whit=

e gold was
an alloy of ordinary and usual yellow gold with other metals to make it=

white. =20
=20
Peter


This story is really funny, why you didn=B4t tell them that white gold is=
only=20
found in full moon nights and rose gold in dawn? :-))

Mit freundlichem Gru=DF,
Heinrich Butschal

--=20
www.schmuck-boerse.com
www.meister-atelier.de
www.schmuckfabrik.de
www.royal-magazin.de

  #10  
Old July 10th 05, 11:33 AM
Peter W.. Rowe,
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 03:31:51 -0700, in |õ Heinrich Butschal
wrote:

This story is really funny, why you didn't tell them that white gold is'
only found in full moon nights and rose gold in dawn? :-))


And of course, blue gold is only found "once in a blue moon"?

cheers

Peter
 




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