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Pickle Pot



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 25th 04, 03:47 AM
Charlie
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"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
Cold is also a lot safer, and then you can store it just in something like

a
tupperware plastic container, and use it there too (so long as the silver

is cool
before you put it in the pickle)


Best idea yet - I'm going to go with this one since Tupperware is cheaper
than Pyrex and seals too!

the same chemical, but cheaper, and purer than the jewelry tools supply

versions,
sold at hardware stores or spa and swimming pool supply places, as

products named
things like "ph down" or "spa down", used for reducing the ph of the water

in
such things. Look for a product who's main ingredient is sodium

bisulphate.
Thats the main active ingredient in Sparex and the other professional

products,
but packaged for pool use, actually seems usually cheaper, and purer.

works the
same, with a bit less mess (Sparex brand tends to produce a yellowish scum

that
leaves an annoying ring on ones container...


I'll tell you what, I work in a swimming pool and asked supervisor if Icould
nab some of this stuff. He said it's not used in the UK or something as the
most effective way of controlling the PH is by keeping the Chlorine amount
correct. So there you go, a little insight into the world of leisure
centers. I'm going to order pickle crystal things anyway online, may as
well use the stuff that's marketed for this use!

Citric acid. Can be food grade or industrial.


Something similar, I've been using Lemon Juice. The cheap stuff in the naff
lemon shape containers. I bunged the piece I'm making in the juice
overnight and the next morning it was pretty clean! Expencive way of doing
it though.

Thanks for the info,

Charlie.



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  #12  
Old August 25th 04, 06:40 AM
Jack Schmidling
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I may have missed someone else suggesting this, but for small items and jump
rings, a half cup of pickle will come to 150F in about 3 minutes in a
microwave oven. Your time and temp may vary but it is just too convenient
not to use. When was the last time you heated a cup of coffee on the stove?

I find the difference between hot and cold to be too great to ignore unless
there is no immediate need for the parts. Hot pickle cleans my parts in
about 3 minutes compare to hours or overnight at room temp.

As a point of interest, as it heats, the pickle makes strange squeeking and
snapping sounds even when still cold. I gave up trying to find out why and
it doesn't seem to have any effect on anything I can see. If anyone thinks
otherwise, let me know.

I also took Peter's advice and bought 7lbs of Ph minus at Ace Hardware for
about $9.

I also pickled several gallons of jalapenos and green beans this week but I
decided against sodium bisulfate. I ferment them in salt in the traditional
way and you would not believe what beans taste like pickled with the hot
peppers. Cools the peppers and heats the beans. Yah I know, millionaires
don't have to make pickles.

js


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  #13  
Old August 26th 04, 01:43 AM
Carl West
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Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:

...
One reader at one point reported using vinegar and a bit of salt. I've not tried
that, but he/she said it seemed to work... Once you've used it to dissolve
soldering flux and oxides, you probably should not, when you're done with the
jewelry, use the waste pickle in your salad dressing...


I'm working on a sword scabbard and the fittings are of what
Metalliferous calls 'Bronze' (90 Cu/10 Zn).

The salt and vinegar got it very clean over night. There's a slight
etched feeling to the surface.

My problem: My fittings are now pink. I assume I'm looking at a layer of
copper where the zinc has been leached away. Either by the heat or the
pickle.

Whatever the reason, is there a slick, chemical way to get back to the
yellow base metal? Or do I have to get mechanical on this thing?

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  #14  
Old August 26th 04, 04:42 AM
Mr G H Ireland
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In article , Carl 1 Lucky Texan
wrote:
I THINK the addtion of salt to vinegar yields a weak nitric acid


Not nitric acid, more like hydrochloric acid, without the fumes, only acetic
acid fumes (stink). Might be a bit less active on silver if much silver
chloride coating forms. Corrodes steel and probably stainless steel.

Hopes this helps - G.H.Ireland.

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  #15  
Old August 28th 04, 03:35 AM
Abrasha
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Charlie wrote:

Sorry, I've had lots of questions lately! Could a pickle pot be as simple
as a small Pyrex dish with a lid on the lowest (electric) hob setting?


Yes.

My
"studio" is my kitchen so it would be convenient!


Not a wise choice, but understandable if that's all you have.

I could probably stretch
to a slow cooker type thing which I've seen recommended but I'd have to
store it somewhere!


That's what I use. An ancient Crockette pot. The new ones look like this:
http://www.gersoncompany.com/Merchan...ory_Code=AA230

About $10.00

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #16  
Old August 28th 04, 03:35 AM
Abrasha
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NE333RO wrote:

Sorry, I've had lots of questions lately! Could a pickle pot be as simple
as a small Pyrex dish with a lid on the lowest (electric) hob setting?


It could, as long as your low setting is not too hot. I've always been
partial to a small, cheapy, crock pot myself. Do you intend to dump out your
pickle each time you finish using it? Thats the only reason I can see for a
storage problem. That could get a bit expensive if you have to remake your
pickle each time. Not to mention environmentally unfriendly.


Unless you neutralize it with baking soda before dumping it out.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #17  
Old August 30th 04, 10:25 AM
Ted Frater
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Carl West wrote:
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:


...
One reader at one point reported using vinegar and a bit of salt. I've not tried
that, but he/she said it seemed to work... Once you've used it to dissolve
soldering flux and oxides, you probably should not, when you're done with the
jewelry, use the waste pickle in your salad dressing...



I'm working on a sword scabbard and the fittings are of what
Metalliferous calls 'Bronze' (90 Cu/10 Zn).

The salt and vinegar got it very clean over night. There's a slight
etched feeling to the surface.

My problem: My fittings are now pink. I assume I'm looking at a layer of
copper where the zinc has been leached away. Either by the heat or the
pickle.

Whatever the reason, is there a slick, chemical way to get back to the
yellow base metal? Or do I have to get mechanical on this thing?

Yes there is, Ive only just found the recepie, apologies for the delay.
its dangerous and you need to know what your doing.
Its called "Bright dip" the formula is in the following proportions
70 parts of Nitric acid concentrated
200 parts of Sulphuric acid concentrated
140 parts of water
1/2 teaspoon sodium chloride ie householdd salt.

IF you feel up to
handling these chemicals
and are able to get hold of them,
let us know here and ill outline how you mix them and then use them.
you use this at your own risk.
Ihave it and use it. It works great.
  #18  
Old August 30th 04, 10:35 AM
Peter W.. Rowe,
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On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 02:25:30 -0700, in hõ Ted Frater
wrote:

Yes there is, Ive only just found the recepie, apologies for the delay.
its dangerous and you need to know what your doing.
Its called "Bright dip" the formula is in the following proportions
70 parts of Nitric acid concentrated
200 parts of Sulphuric acid concentrated
140 parts of water
1/2 teaspoon sodium chloride ie householdd salt.


A somewhat simpler, and safer, mix which will take that copper flashing off of
silver, or brass, or bronze, etc, is to take freshly mixed sodium bisulphate
pickle (sparex, or the ph-down type products from the hardware store) and mix it
with peroxide solution. While the pharmacy version of peroxide will work, sort
of, the stronger mixes sold in hair/beauty supply shops works much better. The
solution does not have a long shelf life, as the peroxide degrades. Mix what
you'll use right away. By the next day, it's pretty much degraded, but can then
still be used as ordinary pickle.

Of course, the problem with either of these mixes is that both use the class of
chemicals which you originally were trying to avoid by use of just the vinegar
and salt pickle, instead of the more standard sodium bisulphate pickles. Note
that one can get that copper flashing even with standard pickles. In the
soldering of copper based alloys, it happens when the baser metals, zinc, tin, or
whatever, are etched out of the surface. That can happen either in the pickle
itself, or before, during soldering, when those metals become oxidized enough so
that when the pickles remove the oxides, what's left is just the remaining
copper, with the surface depleted of everything else. Both Ted's recipe, the
traditional bright dip, and the peroxide/pickle mix, will attack that surface
copper, etching your item back down to the underlying proper alloy.

Other copper etchants might also work, but you'd need to be careful to not let
them "cut" too far.

Peter
  #19  
Old August 30th 04, 04:36 PM
Carl West
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Ted Frater wrote:

Carl West wrote:

Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:



...
One reader at one point reported using vinegar and a bit of salt. I've not tried
that, but he/she said it seemed to work... Once you've used it to dissolve
soldering flux and oxides, you probably should not, when you're done with the
jewelry, use the waste pickle in your salad dressing...



I'm working on a sword scabbard and the fittings are of what
Metalliferous calls 'Bronze' (90 Cu/10 Zn).

The salt and vinegar got it very clean over night. There's a slight
etched feeling to the surface.

My problem: My fittings are now pink. I assume I'm looking at a layer of
copper where the zinc has been leached away. Either by the heat or the
pickle.

Whatever the reason, is there a slick, chemical way to get back to the
yellow base metal? Or do I have to get mechanical on this thing?


Yes there is, Ive only just found the recepie, apologies for the delay.
its dangerous and you need to know what your doing.
Its called "Bright dip" the formula is in the following proportions
70 parts of Nitric acid concentrated
200 parts of Sulphuric acid concentrated
140 parts of water
1/2 teaspoon sodium chloride ie householdd salt.

IF you feel up to
handling these chemicals
and are able to get hold of them,
let us know here and ill outline how you mix them and then use them.
you use this at your own risk.
Ihave it and use it. It works great.


I got mechanical on the parts and it has worked out fairly well (except
for the extra time spent.

I have the Sulphuric, I can probably find Nitric, water is easy, and I
know I have some salt around here somewhere. I assume non-iodized would
be slightly better(?).

My current need is past, but having the information for future use would
be great.

--
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"Clutter"? This is an object-rich environment.
  #20  
Old August 31st 04, 01:37 AM
Jack Schmidling
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This brings up something I really didn't understand in Complete Metalsmith.
The section called "pickle plating". I understand the chemistry but it is
not clear whether he was talking about a problem or something done
intentinally. I "ignored" it for the moment but now it is very real and I am
trying to sort it out.

My pickle was turning green/blue so I put it aside and made some new stuff.

I have a bunch of scrap, sterling/fine with all sorts of solder and wires,
basically from experiments that I was going to add to some sterling to cast
something whose composition is not important.

I put the scrap in the green pickle and left it overnight to find some of it
nicely copper plated in the morning.

Most amusing and I presume it will have no effect on the intended purpose
but is there a simple way to reverse this?

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com



 




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