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#1
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straight cut on saw
Hello All,
I have recently rebuilt a 12" rock saw and I'm having trouble calibrating it for a parallel cut. It seems that as the clamp travels it tends to move away from the blade which causes the blade to bind. I have measured and remeasured and still can't get it aligned. I have realigned the blade shaft, I have realigned the clamp rails and I am getting somewhat frustrated. It is the larger rocks that seem to have trouble staying aligned. I don't put any rock larger than the clamp, (lengthwise) and only about 3 - 4" high. Is there a trick or can someone impart some of their experience and wisdom on this newbie? Your help would be appreciated. Thank you Joe |
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#2
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:22:07 -0700, in "Jafi" wrote:
Hello All, I have recently rebuilt a 12" rock saw and I'm having trouble calibrating it for a parallel cut. It seems that as the clamp travels it tends to move away from the blade which causes the blade to bind. I have measured and remeasured and still can't get it aligned. I have realigned the blade shaft, I have realigned the clamp rails and I am getting somewhat frustrated. It is the larger rocks that seem to have trouble staying aligned. I don't put any rock larger than the clamp, (lengthwise) and only about 3 - 4" high. Is there a trick or can someone impart some of their experience and wisdom on this newbie? Your help would be appreciated. Thank you Joe Joe, The classic way I was shown to do this is to clamp a pencil into the vise, adjust it so it just barely kisses the side of the blade (with the blade rotating, and then, also does the same when the vise is run down to the far side of the blade. It can take a good deal of tweaking. The thing this accounts for is that blades are rarely totally flat and true, so you're looking for the same extent of marking on both sides, rather than a complete mark all around the blad. Get it set so it scribes about the same length of arc on boths sides. The other comment is to be sure the blade is mounted to the shaft as true as possible. If there is any wobble in the edge as it turns, then there is the risk that the blade will start into the rock slightly off it's true centerline, which pulls the blade to the side as the cut progresses. that not only messes up the cut, but can destroy the blade, by dishing it. So make sure the blade flanges are really true, and the blade, truely flat, mounts equally true to the shaft. which brings me to two other points. if you've trying to true up the saw with a used blade, be sure the blade is not dished already, perhaps from attempting to cut with a misaligned blade. A dished blade is good only for short trim cuts unless you can get it flattened again (sometimes possible with careful planishing...) As well, make sure the blade edge is uniformly sharp from one side of the edge to the other. run the blade through a bit of fire brick or dressing stone to be sure it's not glazed on one edge, which again, can happen when the blade is not cutting true and is being pulled to one side. when that happens, the blade tends to not want to cut in a straight line, but cuts faster to one side, so even with a true blade and true vise, the cut can drift to the side. Very early in my career (the start actually), I worked for a time for a lapidary shop. the owner was in the habit of slabbing most stones by imbedding them in concrete first. He'd started this with smaller hard to hold things, putting them, carefully oriented,a nd perhaps held in position with a bit of glue, into a milk carton, so he'd get lots of smaller rocks into the one carton. then he'd fill it up with concrete. the resulting square block was easy to clamp into the 24 inch slab saw, but equally, he'd found that the concrete was very good for the keeping the blade properly dressed and sharp, so he sometimes did the same thing with single larger rocks that he felt might tend to glaze the blade, or where the shape of the rock offered a very angled surface that the blade would have to start the cut into, with the concrete avoiding the possibility of the angled surface deflecting the blade a little when the cut started. It also reduces the chance of the slab breaking off just before the cut completes, which often leaves a jagged end to the cut. Hope that's of use. Peter |
#3
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Unfortunately I responded to this in great detail via google but it got barfed and I am not in the mood to retype it but.... Peter said: Reading. Reviewed the sections in the Complete Metalsmith but as usual, more questions than answers. Email me off list for more detailed suggestions. then you'll need to buy, or make, at least a couple steel tools. And then, when you're ready to start hammering, you're gonna get some exercise... It's actually rather enjoyable, almost hypnotic, after you get the idea of how the metal is handled. But email me. I am looking forward to the experience but it seems that email defeats the purpose of the ng. My guess is that most of the readers don't know any more than I do but are too intimidated by the trolls to ask questions. As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust. I really wanted to used my silver stash as that was what got me interested in this in the first place. Sort of like living in a hardwood forest got me interested in woodworking. Maybe someone out there would like to barter some silver for sheet metal? Really irritates me to have to pay $15 an ounce for silver sheet metal. Yeh I know, I'm rich what do I care. Guess pinching pennies is how I got rich. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#4
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Reviewed the sections in the Complete Metalsmith but as usual, more
questions than answers. The reason that you have more questions than answers is that you don't have the background needed. The reason you don't have the background needed is that you want things taught to you in the manor you want it taught. Not in the sequence it should actually be taught in. I am looking forward to the experience but it seems that email defeats the purpose of the ng. Well usually, just not in your case. The problem is, you want to know what you want to know. Even without benefit of the knowledge needed to fully appreciate what you are being told. People trying to learn about the subject matter, from reading what is written to you, will generally not get enough information for it to be usefull. My guess is that most of the readers don't know any more than I do I can't argue with that. The problem is that they will not learn much from things written to you. You want advanced information without benefit of the preceding groundwork. People without LOTS of experimental time will not be able to use most of the info posted for you. but are too intimidated by the trolls to ask questions. Doubtful. As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust. Imagine that. Do you know why? |
#5
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 06:14:46 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling
wrote: As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust. You can do that. But it's a LOT of work. Before the invention of rolling mills, this is how it was done. You'll need a really sturdy (heavy) surface on which to hammer, like a blacksmithgs anvil or similr flat piece of steel, preferably something weighing at least 50 pounds or so, and better still, triple that. Too light an anvil will cause the surface on which youre hammering to absorb too much of the energy in vibration and movement, so less is transmitted to the metal. Then you'll want a good sturdy forging hammer. something between two and four pounds, likely. the heavier the better, within limits of what you can comfortably hold and use for a while. The style is often something like what sold as an engineers hammer, which has one face shaped as a standard sledge hammer face, and the other cut to a horizontal (perpendicular to the handle) wedge. You'd need to slightly rework the wedge, giving it a slight crown in the long direction and softer corners, so it acts a little bit more strongly in the center of that wedge shape, and if you hit with the corner by mistake, not such a nasty sharp ding is caused. You do most of the forging with that cross pein wedge side, striking blows next to each other across the metal, which lengthens it in a directly perpendicular to the wedge shape. Periodically, you switch sides to the flat side (which should also have softened edges, andperhaps be slightly crowned), and hammer out the ridges left by the other side of the hammer. Then repeat this process going at 90 degrees to the previous course, so now the metal elongates in the other direction. eventually, you get sheet metal. the major trouble is not so much thinning the metal, as that happens Ok, but getting it to a really uniform thickness, and doing it without the edges of the metal cracking too much. Anneal the metal fairly frequently, and don't attempt to move it too far with each course. If you find the metal bouncing too much as you forge it, that's an indication that your anvil isn't heavy enough, or isn't mounted securely. the anvil surface should be mounted low enough so your hammering hand is not held high up. With the hammer face on the anvil surface, you want your forearm level or a bit angled down, and your upper arm vertical and relaxed from the shoulder. Many workbenches are too high a surface to do this sort of thing comfortably. An old wood stump is a common thing to mount an anvil or other forging surface upon. If you don't have an anvil, a section of railroad rail can be made into a halfway decent one thouogh it's a bit light for heavy forging, or some chunk of steel of smilar or greater weight. If you get good at this, you not only will do great benefit to your cardiovascular system (this is a good workout), but will gain much respect for ancient metalsmiths who had to make all their sheet metal this way. In the old days, it was generally done by two people at a time, one to hold the metal (in tongs) and direct the work, the other, a helper who actually wielded the sledge hammer (which then, being a two handed affair, could be a lot heavier) peter |
#6
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#7
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"NE333RO" The reason that you have more questions than answers is that you don't have the background needed..... Just what is it about this hobby that demands that a beginner obtain a masters degree from some never heard of school or work as a slave/apprentice for 10 years before he is allowed to ask a question? Why is it that people keep telling me that no one will ever buy one of my trinkets because they are garbage when in fact the reason they won't buy them is because at my most modest rate of $100 an hour, vertually everything I have made would have to be price at no less the $10,000. Well usually, just not in your case. The problem is, you want to know what you want to know. What a most amazing attitude I have! Just imagine if one had to know what everyone else wanted one to know. You want advanced information without benefit of the preceding groundwork. Seems to me that I am in a pretty good position to decide what I need to know. but are too intimidated by the trolls to ask questions. Doubtful. Let's do a survey on that one. Come on lurkers, now's your chance to speak out! As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust. Imagine that. Do you know why? Of course I do... NOW. But I did not until I made the attempt. Can you imagine what I would have learned posting the question instead of doing it? Unless Peter responded, I would have been called a jackass and told what school to go to. Instead of that, I went to his web site and pondered his wierdo stuff he calls jewelry. After all the lectures on traditional stuff and masters and apprentices, etc. ad nausiam, I go to his web site and his cover photo is a piece that looks like a kids toy. After pondering for awhile and knowing what art has degenerated to, I finally recognize this thing as a ring. It's a horseshoe shape thing with a red bead in a tube. Maybe a carpenters level but traditional... my foot. The next thing I find is what looks like something out of an optical shaft encoder.... a round disk with a bunch of little beads in a circle. Totally lost me on this but not to be lost is his braggadocio about how his stuff is on permanent display at the Smithsonian. I don't doubt it a bit but that is why I no longer have any respect for the word art. It has about as much meaning as the word beer these days. Bud is the King of beers because they say so and the mushbrained masses believe it and buy it. The only art fair I ever entered got us the the Best of Show ribbon and a cash prize but we did not sell a single piece. That is when I gave up on art... about 20 years ago. The mushbrained masses want garbage not art and people like him know this and give them the garbage they want. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#8
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"Peter W.. Rowe," If you get good at this, you not only will do great benefit to your cardiovascular system (this is a good workout), but will gain much respect for ancient metalsmiths who had to make all their sheet metal this way.... You have motivated me to get that piece out of the scrap and keep at it. I have the hammer you described and a good appreciation for the too high work bench my anvil is mounted on but a real need for the exercise. As a point of interest, why is this thread attached to a different one now? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#9
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Jack Schmidling wrote:
Instead of that, I went to his web site and pondered his wierdo stuff he calls jewelry. After all the lectures on traditional stuff and masters and apprentices, etc. ad nausiam, I go to his web site and his cover photo is a piece that looks like a kids toy. After pondering for awhile and knowing what art has degenerated to, I finally recognize this thing as a ring. It's a horseshoe shape thing with a red bead in a tube. Maybe a carpenters level but traditional... my foot. Salvador Dali, a great admirer and student of the work of Vermeer once said: "If you want to paint like yourself, learn to paint first like the great masters." Even today, one can see many students of painting in museums all over the world copying the masters. They copy Rembrandt, Vermeer, Goya, Velasquez, etc. That's how you learn how to paint. I mean to say, that's how you learn the CRAFT of painting. Besides, it is not I who call my work ART. I do not call myself an artist. That is more or less a title that has been bestowed on me. I call myself a goldsmith. Maybe a very opinionated goldsmith, but a goldsmith nevertheless. So why do I have an "Artist Statement" on my web site? Because that is expected of me. You do not need to like my work, I frankly don't give a damn if you do or don't. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and obviously you have a more pedestrian beer and sausage taste. The craft of my work however, is impeccable and can withstand any and all criticism of anyone, especially you. This is not about aesthetics, but rather about craft, skill. Mastery has nothing to do with art, but has everything to do with craft and skill. ... Bud is the King of beers because they say so and the mushbrained masses believe it and buy it. Well, lookee here. I finally find myself agreeing with you on something. A fart in a bucket of water has more flavor than a Budweiser. Besides, it isn't even beer, it's made from rice for God's sakes! My favorite is our local Anchor Steam Beer. I can see the brewery from my living room, down the hill here on Potrero Hill in San Francisco. (I can post a picture if anyone is interested). I chatted with Fritz Maytag the other day on my way to work, when he was bottling some wine, which he also makes. The only art fair I ever entered got us the the Best of Show ribbon and a cash prize but we did not sell a single piece. I received "Best of Show" twice at the ACC Craft Show in San Francisco. The second time it came with a fat check too. That is when I gave up on art... about 20 years ago. The mushbrained masses want garbage not art and people like him know this and give them the garbage they want. You should read "A Confession" on my web site. You might enjoy it. You get to it by clicking on "A Confession" at the bottom of my Artist Statement on my Home Page. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#10
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"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote:
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 06:14:46 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling wrote: As a starting point, I melted some silver and poured it into a shallow sand mold thinking that I could pound it into sheet metal but gave up in disgust. You can do that. But it's a LOT of work. Before the invention of rolling mills, this is how it was done. Very nice examples of this can be seen in "Encyclopedie ou dictionnaire raisonne des sciences, des arts, et des metiers", published under the direction of Diderot and d'Alembert, 1750-1772 This was the first encyclopedia ever published. When I lived in Germany in the 70's I traveled to France regularly, since I lived only about 2 hours East of Strasbourg. I would visit the antique book sellers there. I bought several of the pages of those books relating to gold and silver smithing. I no longer know where I have them. Unfortunately, I could never find a complete copy of that work. When I asked the book sellers why that was so, I was told, that they were much more valuable page by page. Whenever they would find a complete set, they would rip it apart, and sell it page by page. Now you can only find the originals in museums and luckily today they are also available on CD ROM. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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