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Rolling Mill



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 17th 06, 06:49 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
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Default Rolling Mill

I'm thinking of buying a rolling mill. I want to use the mill to produce
texture and pattern on sheet and strip silver (and other metals). I'd also
want to use it to taper wire or at least begin/speed up the process of hand
forging.

I've read around the subject and looked at websites and catalogues but have
not had the luxury of actually getting my hands on one to get the feel of
the equipment in use.

I think this could be a really useful piece of equipment for me and I'm
willing to spend something between 500 and 1000 if I have to.

One of my dilemmas is how useful am I going to find a model with lots of
wire grooves? and will I need to build up more bits of equipment like draw
plates to get best use out of the mill.

So, in brief do I get a basic but solid, rugged rolling mill that will
handle the tasks of texturing and tapering well but not too much else, ordo
I spend more and buy a machine with lots of grooves etc, etc.

All contributions to my decision making will be gratefully received, and
just in case it makes a difference to any responses, I'm in the UK.

Regards - Kendall





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  #2  
Old February 17th 06, 08:16 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
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Posts: n/a
Default Rolling Mill

Kendall Davies wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a rolling mill. I want to use the mill to produce
texture and pattern on sheet and strip silver (and other metals). I'd also
want to use it to taper wire or at least begin/speed up the process of hand
forging.

I've read around the subject and looked at websites and catalogues but have
not had the luxury of actually getting my hands on one to get the feel of
the equipment in use.

I think this could be a really useful piece of equipment for me and I'm
willing to spend something between 500 and 1000 if I have to.

One of my dilemmas is how useful am I going to find a model with lots of
wire grooves? and will I need to build up more bits of equipment like draw
plates to get best use out of the mill.

So, in brief do I get a basic but solid, rugged rolling mill that will
handle the tasks of texturing and tapering well but not too much else, or do
I spend more and buy a machine with lots of grooves etc, etc.

All contributions to my decision making will be gratefully received, and
just in case it makes a difference to any responses, I'm in the UK.

Regards - Kendall





A small, hand cranked, rolling mill was the first major piece of
equipment I purchased over 30 years ago. I even opened a special bank
account in which I saved up to buy it; I called it the Mill account, and
its still in use today.
The mill has only 2 rollers, 2.5" diam and 4.5" wide, divided into a
2.25" flat area and a 2.25" area with 12 grooves. It is still very much
in use and is, without doubt, indispensable. On occasion I have found
the 2.25" flat a bit restrictive, but given the choice of the current
set-up or just a 4.5" flat without grooves, I would go for the current
set-up. The grooves are extremely useful.
2.5" diam rolls are better than 2" ones because, like large wheels on
rough ground, they make life easier. If you can afford it, a double
decker, 2x flat and 2x grooves, would be even better than my set-up.
I too am in UK, and I purchased my mill from H.Walsh and Son of
Clerkenwell, all those years ago.

--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)

  #3  
Old February 18th 06, 03:40 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
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Default Rolling Mill

Thanks for the input Gary, a helpful answer, not for the first time. I'll
probably be in Birmingham next week so I'll look some over with your points
in mind. Thanks once more for your help.

Kendall



  #4  
Old February 18th 06, 04:12 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
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Posts: n/a
Default Rolling Mill

Kendall Davies wrote:

Thanks for the input Gary, a helpful answer, not for the first time. I'll
probably be in Birmingham next week so I'll look some over with your points
in mind. Thanks once more for your help.

Kendall



There are mills with interchngeable rollers. A hassle but it could be
an option.

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

  #5  
Old February 18th 06, 05:31 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
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Posts: n/a
Default Rolling Mill

Kendall Davies wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a rolling mill. I want to use the mill to produce
texture and pattern on sheet and strip silver (and other metals). I'd also
want to use it to taper wire or at least begin/speed up the process of hand
forging.

I've read around the subject and looked at websites and catalogues but have
not had the luxury of actually getting my hands on one to get the feel of
the equipment in use.

I think this could be a really useful piece of equipment for me and I'm
willing to spend something between 500 and 1000 if I have to.

One of my dilemmas is how useful am I going to find a model with lots of
wire grooves? and will I need to build up more bits of equipment like draw
plates to get best use out of the mill.

So, in brief do I get a basic but solid, rugged rolling mill that will
handle the tasks of texturing and tapering well but not too much else, or do
I spend more and buy a machine with lots of grooves etc, etc.

All contributions to my decision making will be gratefully received, and
just in case it makes a difference to any responses, I'm in the UK.

Regards - Kendall





What you want to do needs 2 different types of mill.
to produce textured or patterned wire or strip needs a very strong
mill with interchangeable rolls with patterns thereon. these are
available from the tool suppliers in the Brmingham jewellery quarter.
there meant for serious production runs and youll need to sit down to
get the price.
Quite unsuitable for a one man band operation on account of roll cost.
Ive one of these and the basic mill cost 200 pounds 30 yrs ago in a
sale without the patterened rolls. I never used it on account of cost.
I went the other route, by making hand punches out of cold chisels
with lots of different designs on them, and hammering these into the
metal. Its fast, you can make an infinite variation of the design and
get a proper price for your time.
Made hundreds of these. Very popular.
the other mill is,as has been described a 2 roll mill part flat part
with grooves with an overhang opposite to the gear drive end..
this overhang takes wheels that will give you round and half round wire.
Now when you go to B'ham, youll see these mills made in italy and also
the UK. The Durston range are made in the Aylesbury area, I went to see
Mr. Durston and bought extra rolls from him. the maker. Nice guy, tho he
may have retired by now.
Ive used it extensively, and motorised it for long production runs.
It depends where your workshop is but DO keep a tin of WD 40 handy and
always spray the rolls after youve used them. If they get rust on them
it will mark the metal you roll. Difficult to remove but they can be
reground of course.
Now to go along with a mill you need a proper annealingtorch as after
several runs or reductions your metal will harden up .
you need a reducing large soft flame If you want details of this do
let us know and ill outline what I have done.
also youll need a long quenching tank and pickling tank, think what
you need to handle strip 1in wide and 3ft long, or wire 1/4in thick and
3ft long. you cant use a simple brazing bench torch for this.
working with metal on this scale is a differnt ball game to fiddling
around with small jewelly bits of wire and a piercing saw.



  #6  
Old February 18th 06, 06:02 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
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Posts: n/a
Default Rolling Mill

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:31:58 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater
wrote:

Kendall Davies wrote:
I'm thinking of buying a rolling mill. I want to use the mill to produce
texture and pattern on sheet and strip silver (and other metals). I'dalso
want to use it to taper wire or at least begin/speed up the process of hand
forging.

I've read around the subject and looked at websites and catalogues but have
not had the luxury of actually getting my hands on one to get the feel of
the equipment in use.

I think this could be a really useful piece of equipment for me and I'm
willing to spend something between 500 and 1000 if I have to.

One of my dilemmas is how useful am I going to find a model with lotsof
wire grooves? and will I need to build up more bits of equipment likedraw
plates to get best use out of the mill.

So, in brief do I get a basic but solid, rugged rolling mill that will
handle the tasks of texturing and tapering well but not too much else, or do
I spend more and buy a machine with lots of grooves etc, etc.

All contributions to my decision making will be gratefully received, and
just in case it makes a difference to any responses, I'm in the UK.

Regards - Kendall





What you want to do needs 2 different types of mill.
to produce textured or patterned wire or strip needs a very strong
mill with interchangeable rolls with patterns thereon. these are
available from the tool suppliers in the Brmingham jewellery quarter.
there meant for serious production runs and youll need to sit down to
get the price.
Quite unsuitable for a one man band operation on account of roll cost.
Ive one of these and the basic mill cost 200 pounds 30 yrs ago in a
sale without the patterened rolls. I never used it on account of cost.
I went the other route, by making hand punches out of cold chisels
with lots of different designs on them, and hammering these into the
metal. Its fast, you can make an infinite variation of the design and
get a proper price for your time.
Made hundreds of these. Very popular.
the other mill is,as has been described a 2 roll mill part flat part
with grooves with an overhang opposite to the gear drive end..
this overhang takes wheels that will give you round and half round wire.
Now when you go to B'ham, youll see these mills made in italy and also
the UK. The Durston range are made in the Aylesbury area, I went to see
Mr. Durston and bought extra rolls from him. the maker. Nice guy, tho he
may have retired by now.
Ive used it extensively, and motorised it for long production runs.
It depends where your workshop is but DO keep a tin of WD 40 handy and
always spray the rolls after youve used them. If they get rust on them
it will mark the metal you roll. Difficult to remove but they can be
reground of course.
Now to go along with a mill you need a proper annealingtorch as after
several runs or reductions your metal will harden up .
you need a reducing large soft flame If you want details of this do
let us know and ill outline what I have done.
also youll need a long quenching tank and pickling tank, think what
you need to handle strip 1in wide and 3ft long, or wire 1/4in thick and
3ft long. you cant use a simple brazing bench torch for this.
working with metal on this scale is a differnt ball game to fiddling
around with small jewelly bits of wire and a piercing saw.



A couple comments. While Ted is correct in his discussion, I suspect he's
mis-interpreted what you meant by putting patterns on strip metal with a mill,
overlooking the relatively recent (last few decades, perhaps) popularity of the
method known as roll printing, where plain flat rolls are used, but the metal is
rolled along with some textured thing, ranging from paper to wire screening to
who knows what all else, to produce a texture on the silver. You don't need one
of the costly pattern rolls to do that, just a flat mill. Probably, since good
roll printing can sometimes require one to take a fairly good "bite" witha
single pass through the roll, you may wish to avoid those less costly mills on
the market that use a frame constructed of machined parts bolted together,
rather than the stronger type with a single casting machined into the frame. The
major brands like Durston or Cavallin are the latter type, while some of the
cheapest mills from India or Spain, are made with the bolt together type.So is
the somewhat better made Pepe brand mills, made in eastern europe. The various
bolted together type mill frames can be useful mills, but just are not quite as
strong. On the other hand, some of them are half the cost of the more
traditional better ones. And these cheap types are the ones sometimes supplied
with several interchangeable rollers, often including a couple with a sort of
knurled pattern that, while limited, can still be useful at time (or if you
don't like those patterns, it's an extra roll anyway, and you can experiment
with altering the pattern to do something you like.

Of the better quality mill types, you can get these as all flat, all wire
grooves, or some combination of half flat and half grooved. I'd guess that to
begin with, unless you'll need to be rolling wider pieces of sheet metal,the
Durston or Cavalin combination mill types would well serve your needs. You
don't need an infinate assortment of wire groove sizes, since each groovecan
produce a slight range of sizes if the rolls are opened a bit versus tightly
closed, but with the combo mills, usually the maximum size you can start with is
limited, so you may need an ingot mold with a smaller groove to produce starting
stock, or start with purchase manufactured heavy wire rather than making your
own. For drawplates, as a starter, I'd suggest one of the carbide die types you
can get from a number of sources, including Ebay. Look for the one that goes
from about 2.8 millimeters maximum diameter, down to about .28 millimeters.
You'll likely not need much wire finer than this, and larger than this plate's
maximum gets pretty hard to draw without a draw bench, even in soft metallike
silver. I like the superior finish a carbide plate gives the wire, and it is
lower friction too, so a bit easier to pull. And these plates are available now
in versions made in Taiwan and mainland china for very reasonable prices.Last
one's I bougt were something like 40 dollars on Ebay. A good Italian made all
steel plate will cost more than that. More durable, but doesn't produce that
same high polished finish on the wire. I'd suggest staying away from the
really cheap (ten dollar range) steel plates made in India. Hole sizes and
finish are just so crude that these plates, while they can work in a pinch, are
just not all as useful as one would wish, at least not without a lot of work
finishing the plate up further, and with the reasonable price of the carbide
plates one can find, why bother with them. If you can afford more, then high
quality carbide plates, with replaceable dies and more durable construction, can
be had, but they're several times the price. probably overkill for you at this
point.

Also, if indeed you did want to use a pattern roll to produce specific patterns
of wire, like for bangle bracelets or ring bands, while the high quality riolls
that fit the traditional mills are indeed costly as ted says, there is also an
Indian made copy available for those small cheap mills. The Karat brand,if I'm
not mistaken. For that mill, you can get several variations of a patterned wire
roller for something like two hundred dollars per roller. If interested, reply
with your interest and I'll see if I can find the link to the web page I saw
them on.

Peter Rowe
  #7  
Old February 7th 11, 05:26 PM
reynoldsarts reynoldsarts is offline
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First recorded activity by CraftBanter: Feb 2011
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendall Davies View Post
I'm thinking of buying a rolling mill. I want to use the mill to produce
texture and pattern on sheet and strip silver (and other metals). I'd also
want to use it to taper wire or at least begin/speed up the process of hand
forging.

I've read around the subject and looked at websites and catalogues but have
not had the luxury of actually getting my hands on one to get the feel of
the equipment in use.

I think this could be a really useful piece of equipment for me and I'm
willing to spend something between 500 and 1000 if I have to.

One of my dilemmas is how useful am I going to find a model with lots of
wire grooves? and will I need to build up more bits of equipment like draw
plates to get best use out of the mill.

So, in brief do I get a basic but solid, rugged rolling mill that will
handle the tasks of texturing and tapering well but not too much else, ordo
I spend more and buy a machine with lots of grooves etc, etc.

All contributions to my decision making will be gratefully received, and
just in case it makes a difference to any responses, I'm in the UK.

Regards - Kendall
Hello,
I have one very heavy duty roller by GFC and can provide a photo. shipping will take a bit time I would guess.
  #8  
Old February 12th 11, 08:05 AM
first be first be is offline
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I think this could be a really useful piece of equipment for me and I'm
willing to spend something between 500 and 1000 if I have to.
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  #9  
Old February 15th 11, 07:22 AM
dalethomas1 dalethomas1 is offline
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Rolling Mills is the metal forming process in which metal stock is passed through a pair of rolls.
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  #10  
Old June 10th 11, 10:09 PM
TISLISDIVIOMY TISLISDIVIOMY is offline
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Hello All,
I have seen some wonderful photos and a few videos of hand rolling steel mills in Sheffield and the Black Country.
I would like to ask some questions from those who worked in the mills or have knowledge of the specifics of rolling hot steel.
I am a blacksmith in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA and would like to learn about the sizes and pass reductions for a mill like the 14" cross country mill at Spencer Clark Metal Industries 003 Greasbrough Street, Rotherham

In specific:
What is the size of the flat on the corners of the square?
How much reduction can be taken from one pass to another?
Are there charts or equations or some such I can study?
How large of a section can be run through what size roll?

Any help would be appreciated.
Yours,
Ric Furrer
 




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