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The Beadmakers Liberation Front



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 11th 04, 12:19 AM
Kandice Seeber
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***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I
bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm
in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well
received.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking

and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or
trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's
just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today,

and
I am cranky.
--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Rita says:
"....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a
trickle down effect but a landslide."

This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and

brother
beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population.

The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've

been
fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen

when
you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to

be
dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is
evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation

Front"?
Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry."

John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html





Ads
  #12  
Old February 11th 04, 12:37 AM
AmazeR
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:59:05 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote:

Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true
only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more
hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals.

Tina



If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a
beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO

Mavis
  #13  
Old February 11th 04, 12:44 AM
AmazeR
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Default

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:16:44 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:

I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or
trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's
just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and
I am cranky.



I've never believed in price fixing or a group governing prices... but I
don't think this is what they are getting at. I think the whole thrust of
the thread is pricing which reflects the value of the beads.. the worth of
them - not only to the beader/artist but also to the customer. For
example, if I purchase something for nix, then it's not worth much to me..
whereas if I purchase something for a reasonable price then it becomes
more valuable/precious to me. Hence, I will take more care with it etc,
etc...

Blah, blah, blah... Hope that all makes sense

Mavis

  #14  
Old February 11th 04, 01:00 AM
AmazeR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:19:02 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:

***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I
bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm
in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well
received.



Objectivity is a good thing Kandice...

Calls for open-mindedness though. It'll be interesting to see.. heh,heh

Mavis

  #15  
Old February 11th 04, 02:40 AM
DreamBeadr
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Posts: n/a
Default

Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o)

First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi
lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi.

Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their
own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you
happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work.
That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of
dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly
worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a
quality piece of beadwork.

Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I
started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12,
I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small
craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail
store.
While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very
experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their
forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on
how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works.
There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy
to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their
time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the
person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market
demand to find that happy medium.

That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time,
that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the
market thins, your competition increases.
You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it
is you as an individual can do to change.
You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what
should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to
any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc.
Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal
input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart
from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to
offer. Not what others choose to sell for.
The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my
service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in.
They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs
for.
I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally
undercut others and I do not overprice.
Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same
guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where
and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the
prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few
who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the
best of the best.. =o)
If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel
you deserve, then find the location that will.
It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon
them.

While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it
is the individuals within that family that make it what it is.

A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists,
craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more
worth.

Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com
  #16  
Old February 11th 04, 03:06 AM
Karleen/Vibrant Jewels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would
have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it and
teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper
alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to my
hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one reason
he's not selling it anymore.

I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it
includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price, I'd
just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my
prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually
sell LESS. Go figure...

Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary
Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's just
hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are
low.
--
Vibrant Jewels Online Bead & Jewelry Store
http://www.vibrantjewels.com/jewelry/welcome.htm

Karleen Page/Vibrant Jewels
JustBead Auctions
http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=21770
PayPal Merchant Account
https://www.paypal.com/mrb/pal=7XJ98L86Z7S2C
"AmazeR" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote:

I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373

I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means

you,
too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too

many
times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I

think
we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller.

Mary


This goes for anything one is selling..

People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than
the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't
expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise
the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People
don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before..
If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?'
and will buy the dearer product almost every time..

It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth.
I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too..
I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary..


Mavis



  #17  
Old February 11th 04, 03:06 AM
Christina Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If someone makes a professional product, I consider them professionals.
That's why I differentiated between them and beginners/hobbyists. I'm
obviously referring to the a level of expertise as opposd to how much money
someone is making.

And frankly, I looked at Wet Canvas and went to some of the bead site of the
people making comments. Not all of them made nice beads.

Tina


"AmazeR" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:59:05 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote:

Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true
only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more
hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals.

Tina



If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a
beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO

Mavis



  #18  
Old February 11th 04, 03:11 AM
Christina Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem?

Tina


"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.

If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying
retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm
going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently.

Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a
necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should
double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for

the
amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with
wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should
sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well
designed.

OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for
$500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would
only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the
necklace and get it to the gallery.

Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable.

I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on
materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30
on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200.

Tina


"meijhana" wrote in message
...
I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373

I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means

you,
too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too

many
times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I

think
we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller.

Mary


--
Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." --
www.shardsoglass.com
================
MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More!
http://www.meijhanadesigns.com
mary at meijhanadesigns dot com

HandcraftedJewelry.com
http://snipurl.com/45w5
check out my store!






  #19  
Old February 11th 04, 03:41 AM
Karen_AZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:[email protected]..
Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem?

Tina


It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store
owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it
was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for
a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies
were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were
obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not
cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else
complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing
something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had
difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in
several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't
handle that, there's not much I can do about it.


--
KarenK
www.desertdreameraz.com
Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2
Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer


  #20  
Old February 11th 04, 03:46 AM
JL Amerson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Try selling computers! I did that for three years for a major computer
manufacturer. I'd configure a system based on what the client wanted to do
with it only to have them go to Circuit City and buy an $800 integrated
system for playing high end games. I still remember a kid who came in with
his dad to buy his system for college - graphics design major. I configured
a system for about $1800, with printer and office software. He wanted the
$600 computer - fully integrated, barely enough RAM to run Windows, Works
Suite, and a 15" monitor. I tried telling him that that system wasn't made
for his usage. He looked at me with such a haughty look and ask if I was
going to be a graphic design major. I told him no but I had 22 years of
drafting, including 7 years of doing printed circuit board design with CAD
software. He said that wasn't the same thing and I informed him it was -
both are graphics intensive and that system wasn't for him. He insisted, Dad
bought it. And after they left the store I added text to the order that I
advised the client that that system was NOT going to suit his needs for the
next four years.

I tried my honest best to get people the most value for their money and I
was treated like a used car salesperson! I will never put myself in that
position again. I hold nothing against the company, which closed our
location last March and left me without a job. I can't do anything about the
commission-hungry sharks that are out there stealing money from people who
don't know what to get when it comes to computers.


"Karleen/Vibrant Jewels" wrote in
message hlink.net...
My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would
have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it

and
teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper
alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to

my
hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one

reason
he's not selling it anymore.

I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it
includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price,

I'd
just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my
prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually
sell LESS. Go figure...

Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary
Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's

just
hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are
low.
--
Vibrant Jewels Online Bead & Jewelry Store
http://www.vibrantjewels.com/jewelry/welcome.htm

Karleen Page/Vibrant Jewels
JustBead Auctions
http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=21770
PayPal Merchant Account
https://www.paypal.com/mrb/pal=7XJ98L86Z7S2C
"AmazeR" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote:

I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373

I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means

you,
too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter).

Too
many
times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I

think
we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller.

Mary


This goes for anything one is selling..

People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher

than
the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't
expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise
the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People
don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this

before..
If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?'
and will buy the dearer product almost every time..

It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is

worth.
I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are

too..
I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary..


Mavis





 




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