The Death of Ski Sweaters and Ganseys - Long

Other Kim , we live in a rather warm country with a bit of cold ,, we
found that when the children were small , A sleeveless vest over a
sweater were best for really keeping them warm ...
I have soft light sweaters which are really warm , nothing like 2
layers of soft light wools , Those of My age can maybe remember the
TWIN SETS we used to wear !!!!
mirjam
Snipping down to the last paragraph.

Aaron wrote:

Save your man from frostbite. Knit him a ski sweater out of worsted
weight
wool on #3 needles. Keep your boy warm by knitting him a gansey out
of DK
weight on # 1 needles. (Then, send them off skiing and fishing. They
need
the exercise!) And then, make yourself a cup of tea with water heated
on a
fire fueled by a your print out of the Standard Yarn Weight System,
because
the price of energy is going up and we are going to need warmer
sweaters.

You know, I recently made my daughter a sweater using size 3 needles and
fingering yarn, which is what the pattern called for, and it's
incredibly light. She absolutely loves it and wears it constantly, but
I can't help but think that it can't be all that warm. Then again, I'm
in Anaheim, CA, and it doesn't get "cold" here, but something a bit
sturdier would be nice when the winds whip up. After reading your post
I've decided to make the same pattern - it's a Debbie Bliss pattern with
lots of cables - using a worsted yarn so she has a nice warm sweater for
next winter.

Thanks for the inspiration, Aaron. Maybe now is the time to dig up that
Alice Starmore _Fisherman Knits_ book and try that one I've been
drooling over for years...

The Other Kim
kimagreenfieldatyahoodotcom

Me too , esp the odd surprising oines :::
mirjam
@crrstv.net wrote:

Me, I like bobbles. g

Higs,
Katherine

wrote:
A bobble is either a mistake, or a decorative stitch that takes a
long time to knit. Bad pun!
"Katherine" wrote in message
...
wrote:
It is my "bobbles" that slow me down!

Why?

Higs,
Katherine

Mirjam.
Twin sets are "in" again now.

HIgs,
Katherine

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Other Kim , we live in a rather warm country with a bit of cold ,, we
found that when the children were small , A sleeveless vest over a
sweater were best for really keeping them warm ...
I have soft light sweaters which are really warm , nothing like 2
layers of soft light wools , Those of My age can maybe remember the
TWIN SETS we used to wear !!!!
mirjam
Snipping down to the last paragraph.

Aaron wrote:

Save your man from frostbite. Knit him a ski sweater out of worsted
weight wool on #3 needles. Keep your boy warm by knitting him a
gansey out of DK weight on # 1 needles. (Then, send them off
skiing and fishing. They need the exercise!) And then, make
yourself a cup of tea with water heated on a fire fueled by a your
print out of the Standard Yarn Weight System, because the price of
energy is going up and we are going to need warmer sweaters.

You know, I recently made my daughter a sweater using size 3 needles
and fingering yarn, which is what the pattern called for, and it's
incredibly light. She absolutely loves it and wears it constantly,
but I can't help but think that it can't be all that warm. Then
again, I'm in Anaheim, CA, and it doesn't get "cold" here, but
something a bit sturdier would be nice when the winds whip up.
After reading your post I've decided to make the same pattern - it's
a Debbie Bliss pattern with lots of cables - using a worsted yarn so
she has a nice warm sweater for next winter.

Thanks for the inspiration, Aaron. Maybe now is the time to dig up
that Alice Starmore _Fisherman Knits_ book and try that one I've been
drooling over for years...

The Other Kim
kimagreenfieldatyahoodotcom

Hi Aaron,

I went to mall, after mall, after mall, and I looked at commercially
available ski sweaters and noting that they were not as suitable for skiing
as sweaters available 40 years ago. The sweaters that I skied in 40 years
ago were also commercially machine knit.

There are still some thick sweaters being produced that you find in
the mall. They aren't as thick as the ones you're talking about sound
like, but if they are done in multiple colors using a machine knitting
technique called "full needle rib" AKA jacquard, multiple colors are
carried on the back of the work, which increases the density and
therefore the warmth of the sweater. I have one of those that I
bought 4 years ago. It's too warm to wear in most places in Arizona,
unless I'm going to some event being held outside in the winter!

FTR, I don't keep my thermostat set at 90 degrees in the winter,
either. I set it at 60 or 62 and leave it there all night and turn it
off during the day, and I am comfortable because I vary what I wear
inside. If I feel warmer, I wear less clothes, colder, I put
something on, because that's the way I was raised. I actually dislike
going to places that feel like walking into a furnace, summer is bad
enough!

The Yarn Standards reflect recent practices of
knitwear designers. These designers try to maximize the appeal of their
garments. Since more Yankees go to the mall, than go skiing or sailing,
these designers produce garments that are more suitable for mall wear than
for skiing or for sailing. My post was to remind hobby knitters of the
traditions of knitting on finer needles.

I think that's a generalization that's based on an unflattering
stereotype. I'm a Yank and a woman, and I hardly ever go to the mall.
There's not much water in the desert, so yes, I don't go skiing or
sailing, but there are certainly plenty of other activities I enjoy
outside, hiking in the mountains, 4-wheel driving in the mountains in
a truck that has no heater, and mountain bike riding come to mind.
There are many others like me doing the same outdoor activities in all
seasons like I do. Around here mostly teenagers and retired people
gather at the mall, and not in that great a number. Since the teens
aren't that physically active, they like thicker sweaters and coats,
and they like them extremely loosely fit because one fact about the US
is true, more and more (mostly younger around here) people are
overweight due to the mass marketing of junk food and instant meals
full of useless sugar and salt to make them gain weight and retain
water. So the kids want looser clothes to hide their bulges, which is
what a lot of designers are catering to. Many of the retired people
around here usually go to the mall to exercise, doing laps around and
around the place, so they don't wear the thicker clothes as often as I
might expect, since I know many older people who feel the cold more
quickly than I do. But these days I see more older people keeping
themselves in shape with moderate walking exercise, so they aren't
just sitting around staying cold all winter.

Most craft and hobby knitters will want to follow the lead of modern
knitwear designers and knit looser fabrics with more "ease". Modern knitwear
designer are after all -- experts. My post was to remind knitters that there
are alternative approaches that can produce truly wonderful results. One
can deviate from the yarn standard, and still produce "superior" knitting.

Actually, I think that's an incorrect assumption. I'm definitely not
following the lead of any knitwear designers. I don't like most
commercially produced patterns, so I make up most of my own. I've
found that kids and many adults want more ease because it's
comfortable to wear, in addition to hiding fat rolls, and I want to
make something that people will wear. I don't want to spend weeks to
months making something that someone will throw in the closet and
never use. Therefore, I ask what conditions they are going to be
wearing it in by asking "When do you see yourself wearing what you
want me to make?" The depths of winter is often the answer. OK, next
Q is "Inside or outside wear?" More often it's inside because most
don't go out when the weather is that bad, or they'll be wearing more
high-tech clothing in those conditions when they do go out. So I ask
what temperature range they'll be wearing it in. I also ask about
what kind of fit they want, type of neck line, what they feel is
flattering for them, how thick a fabric and the drape they have in
mind. Then, I take into consideration other observations. For
instance, I tend to stay warmer in less thick clothing than my DH. He
can get chilled at 70 degrees, so a sweater I make for him will be
thicker than one I'd make for myself, but he must also have a loose
crew neck in order to be comfortable wearing it. I also tend to wear
more versatile layers when going out into extreme temperatures. He
doesn't wear a hat, I do, so I stay warmer by keeping my head warm, so
again my sweater doesn't need to be as thick as one I'd make him. He
also has commented that he sees himself wearing it in the morning when
it's colder instead of jacket in 30-60 degree weather (his
specification, not mine), and taking it off to reveal a t-shirt
underneath by noon, so that means more ease is required since he'll be
wearing that sweater as a layer. He also said he thinks he'd prefer
it made in wool than acrylic, which is something else I ask people,
what type of yarn do they like?

So while I agree that knits aren't as tight or thick as they used to
be, I think it's for different reasons than you've focused on. I
don't think it's the designers' fault. I think technology has
replaced the need for such thick knits; more modern materials and
easily available commercial power to heat homes and vehicles has
supplanted the need. If such technology were suddenly not available
anymore, I think we'd definitely see a return to not only thicker
knits, but the now politically incorrect fur coats that radicals
currently say is "murder". Personally, I think with the way power
prices are getting completely outrageous due to the gas price gouging
we're seeing, we'll probably see a return to more traditional thicker
knit clothing as people realize they can't afford to spend so much on
what used to be so much cheaper, and when there is a demand, the
designers will scurry to fill the need with patterns that reflect that
trend. They are, after all, in the business to sell those patterns,
and if they don't follow the trend, they aren't going to sell very
many and no one will want to purchase more patterns from them.

Leah

Yes Katherine i saw it in some mags and in my last Belgium visit , and
it is reasonable !!!
mirjam

Mirjam.
Twin sets are "in" again now.

HIgs,
Katherine

Leah could you email me privately , i tried but it came back thank you
mirjam

wrote in message
m...
A bobble is either a mistake, or a decorative stitch that takes a long
time
to knit. Bad pun!

Hee hee - just a personal preference here- I'm very not fond of bobbles, and
won't knit a sweater with them. They're only acceptable on very slim people
(just MHO) or little kid sweaters. On more fluffy people like me - eh - not
so great looking. (giggle)

Shelagh


"Katherine" wrote in message
...
wrote:
It is my "bobbles" that slow me down!

Why?

Higs,
Katherine

Shillelagh wrote:
wrote in message
m...
A bobble is either a mistake, or a decorative stitch that takes a
long time to knit. Bad pun!

Hee hee - just a personal preference here- I'm very not fond of
bobbles, and won't knit a sweater with them. They're only acceptable
on very slim people (just MHO) or little kid sweaters. On more
fluffy people like me - eh - not so great looking. (giggle)

Did I say that I *wore* them? g I like making them, though.

Higs,
Katherine

In the old days, bobbles were knit on 4 stitches and helped to provide
ventilation between the gansey and the waterproof oil skin (rain gear) worn
over the gansey. Bobbles do work. Not as well as the modern moisture
wicking (knit) fabrics and vapor permeable rain gear such as Gortex, but
better than having the oil skin resting flat against stockinet stitch.

Knit very tightly, vertical cables provide similar, but less ventilation.
Using Lion Brand Fisherman's Wool, the ventilation effect from cables is
minimal when knit at 5 stitches /inch and significant when knit at 8
stitches /inch.

When non vapor permeable rain gear lays flat against your flat sweater, your
sweater gets wet and stays wet. (Moisture from your body condenses on the
inside of your rain gear, and moves into your sweater.)

Aaron

"Shillelagh" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
m...
A bobble is either a mistake, or a decorative stitch that takes a long
time
to knit. Bad pun!

Hee hee - just a personal preference here- I'm very not fond of bobbles,
and
won't knit a sweater with them. They're only acceptable on very slim
people
(just MHO) or little kid sweaters. On more fluffy people like me - eh -
not
so great looking. (giggle)

Shelagh


"Katherine" wrote in message
...
wrote:
It is my "bobbles" that slow me down!

Why?

Higs,
Katherine

Dang! This whole discussion is very interesting and thought provoking.
Aaron, you always get my mind wheels turning, and now Mirjam stopped
'em for a moment 'fore they started up again! LOL

Thanks to Aaron, Mirjam and all on this thread for the great
information and sparks.
Eve )