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masters
As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our
skills - But to find 1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing, can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of: - jewellery - silversmithing - metalsmithing or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one technique..), or - name the absolute masterpiece 2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible - do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject regards norwick |
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norwick wrote:
But to find 1. the ultimate masters There is no such person absolute/ultimate masters Ditto - name the absolute masterpiece There is no such thing Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject And what makes you think Peter has the "ultimate/absolute" answer. Maybe you should consult the Pope. Mastery is a process not a state Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#3
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On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:13:12 GMT, in rec.crafts.jewelry "norwick"
wrote: As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our skills - But to find 1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing, can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of: - jewellery - silversmithing - metalsmithing You're request implies that someone could manage to be the best at something. But that just doesn't happen. We all, as artists and craftspeople, are better at some things than others, and there may well be a number of fine craftspeople who've become regarded as "masters" of their craft. But when you toss in that word "absolute", you're asking for people that cannot be defined, as there is often no good definition of what's best. As an example, an artist like Abrasha has achieved considerably mastery and reputation for his craftsmanship and design. He certainly deserves the term "master", and likely has a degree somewhere that claims as much. But there will be many other jewelers who simply don't design the way he does, and are not drawn to his refined and simpler lines, preferring more organic, perhaps even complex and convoluted or even just cluttered, designs. Which is best? That's a matter of personal opinion. And in the arts, where beauty if something defined individually by each person, what constitutes "best" for one, may seem ugly and stupid to someone else, equally qualified as an observer and critic. Now, if you only wish to find people who's work is worthy of study and admiration, without trying to determine ranking, then there are many many indeed. Where should I start? Some of the folks who's expertise and mastery of something, perhaps just teaching itself, who've had an impact on me include folks like Fred Fenster, Richard Thomas, Stanley Lechtzin (some of my teachers). Some who's work has particularly impressed me and who's names happen to occur to me include Mary Lee Hu, Albert Paley, John Paul Miller, Peter Carl Faberge, Charles Lewton-Brain, James Binnion, Valentin Yatkov (spelling?), Giovanni Corvaja, our very own Abrasha, and many many more. Too many to list, and many just as, or more, impressive than these few who's names immediately popped into my mind. None of these folks would ever claim to be "THE master" of much of anything (excepting of course Salvador Dali..., who pretty much did make that claim), but most will admit that they've gotten pretty good at what they do. If a viewer agrees, and can learn something from the person or his/her work, then I suggest that this is about all one can hope for. No ranking is really possible, or desirable. or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one technique..), or - name the absolute masterpiece The human mind. But even then only sometimes. Can rise to astounding levels of genius, inspiration, and greatness, and in the next moment, sink to levels of astounding stupidity, cruelty, and blindness... As to objects and products of fine minds, again, one person's masterpiece is another's odd blunder. 2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible - do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others Now you're asking for everyone's trade secrets. Not too likely. :-) But a hint. Often it's just the result of looking at the impossible from a different angle. Other times it's simply the result of dogged persistence and practice. It's usually not some cheap trick, if it's actually worthy of notice. There are, of course, plenty of things that only appear impossible because the viewer is ignorant of the method or technology. Laser welders, for example, can do things apparently impossible if you don't know about the existence of, or capabilities of lasers. For that matter, if you didn't know about lost wax casting, but only knew fabrication from sheet and wire, many pieces of jewelry would appear amazingly impossible to make. One man's science is another man's magic... Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject I'm flattered. But look at Abrasha's take on that. he's got it about right, I think. I'm your group moderator, and sometimes I flatter myself into thinking I'm a half way decent goldsmith (before I come to my senses). But "guiding hand"? You're putting me on a pedestal I've not earned. Peter |
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Looks like norwick got his answeres real quick, but for my 2 cents, you got
the best in the newsgroups, not sure who would be #1 or #2, But if you want the answers and info straight up, then you have the best around! Jim "norwick" wrote in message ... As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our skills - But to find 1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing, can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of: - jewellery - silversmithing - metalsmithing or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one technique..), or - name the absolute masterpiece 2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible - do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject regards norwick |
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norwick wrote:
As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our skills - But to find 1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing, can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of........... Abrasha responded : 'There is no such thing' 'Mastery is a process not a state' Quite right - that is the point. But if it is only merely a process there would be no end result, the achievement would in doing it. But still we don't destroy our work as the Chinese master who spent all his life in trying to make the perfect pot - and when he felt he had achieved it - he broke it. Still there are people who may have our respect, who in our eyes may have reached the level of a 'master' in what they do. We accept terms 'master class' when tutoring at certain achievement level, - we don't consult the upper spheres for permission to call them a 'master' of their art. can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of.... So let's descend to the lower spheres to the ordinary toil of life; - are there any people we may admire, whom we feel have reached that point of mastery. This site is read by many people, at different levels of skills and education. Not all are fluid in English expressions and familiar with its minute philosophical nuances. Some of us are just starting, while others may have professional qualifications as 'master goldsmiths' or silversmiths. Some of us are just reading books on the subject while others have won honours in competitions. The term 'absolute master' in the questioner's mind was merely a secular term. It was only a question of that piece of work or a maker whom the reader personally felt was the best, whom he/she admired. The ultimate/absolute was added to limit the list to one/two. There is a point in asking this. Those of us still learning, want to see the ultimate aim or what can/could be achieved. Remembering that some of us do not live in big cities with finest, top quality galleries and never may have an opportunity to see the best examples of jewellery/silversmithing skills. The internet has given us a chance to glimpse and to explore. But to see the best, or to be given the opportunity to see what is possible, what some talented people can achieve (often after years of practice) is extremely valuable to those who have no access to big libraries, or are unable to visit the exhibitions in USA, UK or Germany... When you view the world from the top of the tree, it is not crowded. When you are learning, there are people you accept are better than you, whom you admire and respect. You could say that it is the ultimate aim you want to achieve - that skill of mastery, perhaps one day. That is it... On skill level it is a matter of ability to do something well or perfectly. You could say that there is a perfect solder seam - an absolutely perfect solder seam (no bubbles, no excess etc), there is a perfect invisible setting of diamonds, - these are skills. This site (I understood) is/was a craft/skill based - therefore words perfect/absolute are secular and valid. Peter again: Which is best? That's a matter of personal opinion. And in the arts, where beauty if something defined individually by each person, what constitutes "best" for one, may seem ugly and stupid to someone else, equally qualified as an observer and critic. The visual totality of parts is perhaps that absolute best Peter talks about, that elusive effect, that personal preference or matter of taste.... 2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible. - do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others.. Peter responded with: Now you're asking for everyone's trade secrets. Not too likely. If we all thought like this we would only be passing on old/learned skills...what a sad world we have. It was only a thought... (Ganoksin, some other sites and Abrasha may then be exceptions...?) Peter: Now, if you only wish to find people who's work is worthy of study and admiration, without trying to determine ranking, then there are many many indeed. Where should I start? Here Peter has the advantage of education, skill, talent and location... I was appealing to those with that advantage to pass on some of their knowledge and learning... Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject this was added referring to the above thought in mind. regards norwick |
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norwick wrote:
As artists/artisans/craftsmakers we all try to improve and better our skills - But to find 1. the ultimate masters in the fields of jewellery and silversmithing, can the readers of this site suggest names/sites of their absolute/ultimate masters in specific fields of: - jewellery - silversmithing - metalsmithing or techniques (e.g. fabrication/soldering, casting, anticlastic forming, stone setting, turning, lathework, chasing, enamelling etc..Ofcourse rarely a piece of work is an example of solely one technique..), or - name the absolute masterpiece 2. many of us try to do something that appears impossible - do any of you want to share these techniques/achievements with others Perhaps Peter would like to add his guiding hand to this subject regards norwick Share our techniques? As Peter has so eloquently and politely replied ,not likely, Ill go further than that and say its rather nieve of anyone to expect, let alone ask to be give for free , what in most cases has taken a long time and a great deal of effort to achieve. Especially if its commecially valuable. See in the archives, the thread I started called "the right to know" Thats not to say your prevented from trying to find your own way to achieving what as you say, appears impossible. If its been done before then theres nothing to stop you from achieving it yourself other than your own limitations. If its not in you then no amount of trying will do it. Share our achievements? Any craftsmans/artists work has to speak for itself. If you see something you really want then its made the connection between the maker and the person wanting the item. Any artist /craftsman that has dealt extensively with his own clientele will know this process. To help you see where im coming from im at http://freespace.virgin.net/ted.frater/index.htm Now heres a chance for anyone who cares to try, a simple task. Design and make a new hinge and clasp for a 2 part bracelet. All you have available as tools are your files, jewelers saw ,ordinary hammers pieces of wood, and the usual polishing materials. the material? 1/4in round rod in any non ferrous metal, from brass to silver and or gold. Hinges and catches in jewelery are notoriously difficult to make in such a way that the customer cant break them in use. Lets see what everyone comes up with. Ted Frater. |
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Ted Frater wrote:
To help you see where im coming from im at http://freespace.virgin.net/ted.frater/index.htm Not much to see there. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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norwick wrote:
norwick wrote: SNIP A great site with craftsmanship of the highest order: The Internet Craftsmanship Museum (http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/) This site is set up by "The Joe Martin Foundation for Exceptional Craftsmanship". Joe Martin is the man who produces the Sherline lathe, mill, etc. There truly is a collection of exceptional work on that site. Masters all, in their own way. Also check out some of the links to some of the individuals own web sites. Some of my favorites: Wm. Dubin (in Machining as an Art Form), Young C. Park and Gerald A. Wingrove MBE (he was awarded the honor of Member of the Order of the British Empire by Quessn Elizabeth) (both in Model Makers). Check out Gerald Wingrove's sites at http://www.geraldwingrove.com/ and http://www.wworkshop.net/. You'll **** in your pants with admiration and envy at the same time. Wilhelm Huxhold (in Model Engineering), Barry Jordan (in Model Tool Builders). After having spent a few hours looking at the work of all of these and more people, you'll get a bit of an insight of who I consider to be masters in their craft, and what kind of work I consider to be master pieces. Take the time to look at this work. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#9
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Ted Frater wrote:
Share our techniques? As Peter has so eloquently and politely replied ,not likely, Ill go further than that and say its rather nieve of anyone to expect, let alone ask to be give for free , what in most cases has taken a long time and a great deal of effort to achieve. Especially if its commecially valuable. ________________________ Naive? Maybe you mean something I'm just __completely__ missing? Exactly how is Ganoksin not a clear counterexample? ______________________ Counterexamples from another field: I'm writing to you from a mozilla, a free browser/mail client on GNU/Linux, a free operating system. Both exist because people contributed their knowledge freely. Have a good read at: http://www.gnu.org My ISP uses the Apache server. The free Apache server under Linux is the most common on the net, and Linux is making strong inroads on the desktop. http://www.apache.org/ The free Perl programming language is the glue that sticks the net together. For more info about this Swiss Army Chainsaw, see: http://www.perl.org/ ....along with the thousands of contributed modules that make it strong: http://www.cpan.org So, everything we're communicating together depends on things you claim do not exist. Or, am I being naive? -- mbstevens http://www.mbstevens.com |
#10
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Ted Frater wrote:
Share our techniques? As Peter has so eloquently and politely replied ,not likely, Thankfully not everyone shares that sentiment. Take a look at my "Process" pages. Ill go further than that and say its rather nieve of anyone to expect, let alone ask to be give for free , what in most cases has taken a long time and a great deal of effort to achieve. Especially if its commecially valuable. Oh please! To help you see where im coming from im at http://freespace.virgin.net/ted.frater/index.htm Where's the beef?!? Now heres a chance for anyone who cares to try, a simple task. Design and make a new hinge and clasp for a 2 part bracelet. All you have available as tools are your files, jewelers saw ,ordinary hammers pieces of wood, and the usual polishing materials. the material? 1/4in round rod in any non ferrous metal, from brass to silver and or gold. Hinges and catches in jewelery are notoriously difficult to make in such a way that the customer cant break them in use. Lets see what everyone comes up with. Why don't you show us how you do it. I have shown how I do it. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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