watering dry clay

Pardon my ignorance but I bought some fire clay and it is in dry powdered
form. Do I just add water and start stirring? Any idea of weight of water
to weight of clay? My application is to seal a metal box that will be used
for case hardening in order to keep air out.

Thanks in advance,

Wes

Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

What you want to do is put the dry clay in a burlap bag (plastic burlap is
ideal but I have also been told that a leg cut off of an old pair of levis
also works well), tie it off, them put this bag in a 5 gallon size bucket
(or anything large enough to immerse the bag in water) and fill with water.
You would want the clay in the bag to take up no more than 3/4 of the volume
of the bucket. You are going to have more water in the bucket than you will
want in the clay but that is ok. It will thoroughly saturate the clay (let
it sit overnight). Tie the bag off with a rope and hang it outside over a
strong tree limb or the like where it can drain off the excess water. When
it has dried enough to be workable (you should be able to stick your finger
in it without your finger coming out muddy but it should still be soft
enough that you can easily put a dent in it), unroll the bag from the clay.

REMEMBER TO WEAR A MASK! Clay has silica in it and this can damage your
lungs. It is best if you do this outside and if you try to work slowly so
you keep the dust in the air to a minimum.


"Wes" wrote in message
...
Pardon my ignorance but I bought some fire clay and it is in dry powdered
form. Do I just add water and start stirring? Any idea of weight of
water
to weight of clay? My application is to seal a metal box that will be
used
for case hardening in order to keep air out.

Thanks in advance,

Wes

In article , DKat
says...
Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

You pack a low-carbon steel object you want to case-harden in powdered
carbon (mixed with other stuff) in a metal box, and seal it with fire
clay. Then you stick it in a kiln and soak it for a few hours/days -
the carbon infuses the surface of the object, giving the outer layer a
higher carbon content which can subsequently be heat treated to make it
hard, while the inner low-carbon steel remains tough. Easy. :-)

Rob Morley wrote:

In article , DKat
says...
Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

You pack a low-carbon steel object you want to case-harden in powdered
carbon (mixed with other stuff) in a metal box, and seal it with fire
clay. Then you stick it in a kiln and soak it for a few hours/days -
the carbon infuses the surface of the object, giving the outer layer a
higher carbon content which can subsequently be heat treated to make it
hard, while the inner low-carbon steel remains tough. Easy. :-)

That is why I bought a pottery kiln at an auction. I might try pottery with
it some day. What is a good clay for a crucible?

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Rob Morley wrote:

In article , DKat
says...
Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

You pack a low-carbon steel object you want to case-harden in powdered
carbon (mixed with other stuff) in a metal box, and seal it with fire
clay. Then you stick it in a kiln and soak it for a few hours/days -
the carbon infuses the surface of the object, giving the outer layer a
higher carbon content which can subsequently be heat treated to make it
hard, while the inner low-carbon steel remains tough. Easy. :-)

That is why I bought a pottery kiln at an auction. I might try pottery
with
it some day. What is a good clay for a crucible?

Wes

Porcelain

"DKat" wrote:

Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

Another responder addressed that one. Thanks to poster.

What you want to do is put the dry clay in a burlap bag (plastic burlap is
ideal but I have also been told that a leg cut off of an old pair of levis
also works well), tie it off, them put this bag in a 5 gallon size bucket
(or anything large enough to immerse the bag in water) and fill with water.
You would want the clay in the bag to take up no more than 3/4 of the volume
of the bucket. You are going to have more water in the bucket than you will
want in the clay but that is ok. It will thoroughly saturate the clay (let
it sit overnight). Tie the bag off with a rope and hang it outside over a
strong tree limb or the like where it can drain off the excess water. When
it has dried enough to be workable (you should be able to stick your finger
in it without your finger coming out muddy but it should still be soft
enough that you can easily put a dent in it), unroll the bag from the clay.

I'll try the leg from the denim jeans method and store the mix in a mason
jar to keep the water in.

REMEMBER TO WEAR A MASK! Clay has silica in it and this can damage your
lungs. It is best if you do this outside and if you try to work slowly so
you keep the dust in the air to a minimum.

Oh I'll have a mask, especially since part of the heat treat mix contains
barium carbonate. Wished I had known I could get that at Baileys with my
clay order, I bought the barium carbonate at skylighter.com .

I'm going to do all my mixing outside, usually there is a nice west breeze.
I do want to collect on my SSI payments.

Thanks again,

Wes

Oh Hell! If you are just making up a cup or so DON'T follow my
instructions! Sorry - a potter would never make up that little clay. You
could modify what I said and just use an old sock. The thing is, you want
your clay saturated but you also want it drained to the right consistency.
Since you are not going to have a clay mixer the easiest way it to do as I
said, but on a small scale. Sorry, I had no idea what you were aiming for.


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"DKat" wrote:

Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

Another responder addressed that one. Thanks to poster.

What you want to do is put the dry clay in a burlap bag (plastic burlap is
ideal but I have also been told that a leg cut off of an old pair of levis
also works well), tie it off, them put this bag in a 5 gallon size bucket
(or anything large enough to immerse the bag in water) and fill with
water.
You would want the clay in the bag to take up no more than 3/4 of the
volume
of the bucket. You are going to have more water in the bucket than you
will
want in the clay but that is ok. It will thoroughly saturate the clay
(let
it sit overnight). Tie the bag off with a rope and hang it outside over a
strong tree limb or the like where it can drain off the excess water.
When
it has dried enough to be workable (you should be able to stick your
finger
in it without your finger coming out muddy but it should still be soft
enough that you can easily put a dent in it), unroll the bag from the
clay.

I'll try the leg from the denim jeans method and store the mix in a mason
jar to keep the water in.

REMEMBER TO WEAR A MASK! Clay has silica in it and this can damage your
lungs. It is best if you do this outside and if you try to work slowly so
you keep the dust in the air to a minimum.

Oh I'll have a mask, especially since part of the heat treat mix contains
barium carbonate. Wished I had known I could get that at Baileys with my
clay order, I bought the barium carbonate at skylighter.com .

I'm going to do all my mixing outside, usually there is a nice west
breeze.
I do want to collect on my SSI payments.

Thanks again,

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Rob Morley wrote:

In article , DKat
says...
Wow, I can't even imagine how that would work...

You pack a low-carbon steel object you want to case-harden in powdered
carbon (mixed with other stuff) in a metal box, and seal it with fire
clay. Then you stick it in a kiln and soak it for a few hours/days -
the carbon infuses the surface of the object, giving the outer layer a
higher carbon content which can subsequently be heat treated to make it
hard, while the inner low-carbon steel remains tough. Easy. :-)

That is why I bought a pottery kiln at an auction. I might try pottery
with
it some day. What is a good clay for a crucible?

Wes

Fire clay heavily grogged with mullite or other pre-fired refractory will
make a decent crucible. This is basically what fire bricks are made from.

Porcelain might work for low temperature work but is not the best for
melting metals.

For melting metals like bronze or even iron, crucibles are usually made from
fire clay and graphite. This stuff takes thermal shock well and withstands
the corrosive action of molten metals.

What is the crucible for?

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:38:59 -0400, Wes wrote:

Pardon my ignorance but I bought some fire clay and it is in dry powdered
form. Do I just add water and start stirring? Any idea of weight of water
to weight of clay? My application is to seal a metal box that will be used
for case hardening in order to keep air out.

Thanks in advance,

Wes

I am intrigued by Donna's approach of putting the dry clay in the
pants leg and then immersing it. I will probably give it a try the
next time I mix clay. (Thanks, Donna!) However, this is the first I
have heard of that.

So, just for the record, in the traditional method you start with a
container of water and pour powdered clay into it. Exact amounts
don't matter here, as you want to have excess water. The clay will
settle out and after a few days you can pour or siphon most of the
excess water off, leaving a clay slop. That's when (some of us,
anyway!) pour it into the pants leg and hang it. The traditional
method was to pour it out onto a plaster or concrete slab and keep
working it to let the slab absorb the excess water until the clay was
the desired consistency, but that is cumbersome and (if you use
plaster) risks contamination by plaster fragments. But it is quicker
than waiting for the leg to dry naturally.

But since you only want a jar full, you can probably pour the
slop into a sock as Donna suggests. You may not even have to
let it settle too much first. The sock will dry that small amount
of clay much faster, probably less than a day. (Especially since
you probably want a pretty soft clay for sealing purposes.)

I would have worried that the dry soak method would leave
lumps or something, but I never gave it great thought since
I never heard of anyone doing it that way. Encouraged by
Donna's success, I'll have to do some experiments!

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
Science with your sound card!

"Bob Masta" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:38:59 -0400, Wes wrote:

Pardon my ignorance but I bought some fire clay and it is in dry powdered
form. Do I just add water and start stirring? Any idea of weight of
water
to weight of clay? My application is to seal a metal box that will be
used
for case hardening in order to keep air out.

Thanks in advance,

Wes

I am intrigued by Donna's approach of putting the dry clay in the
pants leg and then immersing it. I will probably give it a try the
next time I mix clay. (Thanks, Donna!) However, this is the first I
have heard of that.

So, just for the record, in the traditional method you start with a
container of water and pour powdered clay into it. Exact amounts
don't matter here, as you want to have excess water. The clay will
settle out and after a few days you can pour or siphon most of the
excess water off, leaving a clay slop. That's when (some of us,
anyway!) pour it into the pants leg and hang it. The traditional
method was to pour it out onto a plaster or concrete slab and keep
working it to let the slab absorb the excess water until the clay was
the desired consistency, but that is cumbersome and (if you use
plaster) risks contamination by plaster fragments. But it is quicker
than waiting for the leg to dry naturally.

But since you only want a jar full, you can probably pour the
slop into a sock as Donna suggests. You may not even have to
let it settle too much first. The sock will dry that small amount
of clay much faster, probably less than a day. (Especially since
you probably want a pretty soft clay for sealing purposes.)

I would have worried that the dry soak method would leave
lumps or something, but I never gave it great thought since
I never heard of anyone doing it that way. Encouraged by
Donna's success, I'll have to do some experiments!

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v3.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com


Just to let you know, I have never used a levi pants leg so I don't know how
well they drain. It was used by another poster who seemed to find them
ideal. I have plastic burlap bags that are about the same size of a five
gallon bucket but longer. I cannot remember where I got them in the first
place but they strike me as what you would get grass seed or grain in. They
are perfect for doing this IMO because they don't rot and drain well, yet
keeps the clay uniform in how wet/dry it is - I'm sure that if you let it
get too dry it would dry from the outside in but I have never had that
happen. I do have to wedge up the clay but that is true for any clay I have
ever had. One of the things that makes this such a great way to recycle
clay is that you don't have a bucket or pan that you have to try and scape
mud out of. When the clay is the right dry/wet consistency, the bag just
peels right off of it. It works best (as does any recycling) if the clay is
completely dry and broken into small pieces before immersing in water. I
have been recyling clay since day one and have done it in many different
ways. None tops this one.

Donna