Drilling brass?

C Ryman wrote:
I did a search on that book but the cheapest I could find is $25 for
a used
one, didn't see any new ones. Do you know a better place to buy it?

Sorry for not responding earlier. I've been busy with some new
projects and kind of lost track of this thread.

The big jewelery supplier Rio Grande (riogrande.com) has that book
--"The Flexible Shaft Machine: Jewelry Techniques"-- listed at $11.95,
order number 550-127.

Regards,
Trevor F.

The drill bits (some of them) are Esswein, Blue Ribbon drill bits. I don't
know how the numbers on the container relate to the size, like #61. The
look like regular drill bits only a lot smaller. Some stuff is new but
many of the burrs are old and very used. How does rust affect them? Are
they still usable?

I probably need a smaller punch and some practice. Is it better to center
punch on metal or wood?

I found a used book on the flex-shaft, when I have time I should be able to
sort out what all these loose burrs and things are. Luckily I have lots of
small plastic bags I can label.
Thanks
--
Connie Ryman
Cryman Studio

""Séimí mac Liam"" wrote in message
news
"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in
:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:20:28 -0800, in 0õ "Séimí mac Liam"
wrote:

What size holes are you drilling? Are you sure the rotation is the
right direction?

she's using a standard Fordom flex shaft. These offer only one directon
of rotation, the correct one for drilling.

She might have had a bad batch of drills, or not been centerpunching
properly, or something like that.

peter

I see that she got the bits with the Fordom, she doesn't say what she's
using to drill the holes, doesn't say any thing about breaking bits, and
if
she's leaving big dimples in the metal when attempting to center punch,
she
may be center punching over a large hole, like the one found on the table
of a drill press. Some of those are reversible as are many cordless
drills. Drilling throug 24 guage brass should be like punching through
butter, even with a dull bit, though the hole might not be pretty.

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

What should the tip look like? Sort of a chisel shape?

--
Connie Ryman
Cryman Studio


Brass is notorious for 'grabbing' the drill bit, and when this happens
with small drills it is not uncommon for the tip break off. Sometimes
its not easy to see that this has happened and what appears to be a
normal good bit no longer performs as it should. Check the tip with a
lens.
--

Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)

C Ryman wrote:
What should the tip look like? Sort of a chisel shape?

Hi Ryman,
The jewellery trade uses many skills that have come from the
engineering end of the metalworking world.
So thats where your going to need to look to find out all you need to
know about drilling metals or any other material for that matter.
the drill makers have researched all the variables in drill tip design
and its quite a science. considering drills are used in just about every
engineering production dicipline.

Go to a engineers supplies house and ask for one of those small
reference books here we call them Zeus or old book shops where your
likwely find an engineers year book.
these go back to the Victorian era( pre 1900) and have all sorts of
interesting data not only on drills and their sharpening but on all
other metal ciutting techniques.

Dont be afraid to borrow technology from all backgrounds in solving your
production problems.

youll see what a general purpose drill tip looks like if you get some
bigger ones say 1/4in dia and upwards and have a close look.
Making holes in things is as old a technology as mans first tools.
Wether to center punch on wood or metal ? come on!! just set up a trial
.. youll find out soon enough which works best by doing it. In less time
than it took you to write your question.
All power to your drilling.



..

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:12:23 -0800, in Tõ Ted Frater wrote:


...Go to a engineers supplies house and ask for one of those small
reference books here we call them Zeus or old book shops where your
likwely find an engineers year book.
these go back to the Victorian era( pre 1...

right.

Or, Ted, we could just tell her to find a larger, standard hardware store type drill bit
and look at that larger, easier to see tip. The little ones should generally look the
same.

Two planes coming to a chisl like narrow point at the center. The two planes defined at
the front end by the spiral cut into the drill, and inclined away both from the center,
and the flute of the spiral (so the leading edge of each of those planes is sloping up,
in the direction of rotation, so it can cut in.

A dull bit, and I'll bet that's the problem, will either have bits of these surfaces
broken off, or the center chisel or leading edges/cutting edges will be dulled and
rounded over.

Small drill bits can be easily resharpened, once one has a good feel for what those
angles need to be to cut, as well as having something to sharpen the bit with. I like
the very thin (.009") "flexible" seperating disks. Their sides have a much smoother
surface than the more common gray ones (which can also be used, but which cut much mor
coarsly, and on tiny bits, this makes a difference). Those nice flat sides will cut a
nice clean tip on even the tiniest bits, if you can use good enough magnification to see
what you're doing. A good loupe, or at the least, a higher powered optivisor, may be
needed.

Once this is mastered, you can use about half the length of the flutes on the small
drills with several resharpenings after breaking off points. The flutes get shallower
as you move down the shank of the bit, so after you've got a ways down the bit,
resharpening leads to a wider and wider center "web", the area in the center of the bit
between the flute, which leads to a wider and wider center chisel. Still works, but not
as well. On the somewhat less miniscule bits, you can thin the web right at the point
by grindiing the flute a bit deeper, but this gets picky to do.

Until this is mastered, take comfort in knowing that the small drill bits are pretty
cheap. And the factory points are generally more uniform than what you'll get
resharpening them yourself. So it may be easiest, at first, to just buy your bits new.

And if they seem dull, they probably are. Even slightly dull drill bits just don't work
well enough to bother with. When dull, even a bit, they then heat up, destroying the
temper of the bit. Even high speed bits get messed up by this, getting more brittle.
So then the dull or break even more easily...

As to your other question, Connie, a bit of rust on old burs might not kill them. It's
relative. How much rust? and more important, what was the condition of the bur first?
Small jewelers burs are often just a high quality carbon steel, which are wonderfully
sharp, and not too costly, whe new, but they burn out and dull somewhat quickly. That's
why the often get sold in six-packs... If the burs you have were sharp before they
rusted, then they'll likely still cut OK, though perhaps not quite as smoothly. If they
were dull, they won't now be any sharper....

Peter

#61 drill bit is 0.0390 inches in diameter. Here is a nice, printable table
of numbered drill bit sizes.

http://www.patchn.com/drillsizesnumbered.htm

--

Don Thompson

Remmy sez,
Count de Monet.
Unless, of course, you are Baroque.


"C Ryman" wrote in message
...
The drill bits (some of them) are Esswein, Blue Ribbon drill bits. I
don't
know how the numbers on the container relate to the size, like #61. The
look like regular drill bits only a lot smaller. Some stuff is new but
many of the burrs are old and very used. How does rust affect them? Are
they still usable?

I probably need a smaller punch and some practice. Is it better to center
punch on metal or wood?

I found a used book on the flex-shaft, when I have time I should be able
to
sort out what all these loose burrs and things are. Luckily I have lots
of
small plastic bags I can label.
Thanks
--
Connie Ryman
Cryman Studio

""Séimí mac Liam"" wrote in message
news
"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in
:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:20:28 -0800, in 0õ "Séimí mac Liam"
wrote:

What size holes are you drilling? Are you sure the rotation is the
right direction?

she's using a standard Fordom flex shaft. These offer only one directon
of rotation, the correct one for drilling.

She might have had a bad batch of drills, or not been centerpunching
properly, or something like that.

peter

I see that she got the bits with the Fordom, she doesn't say what she's
using to drill the holes, doesn't say any thing about breaking bits, and
if
she's leaving big dimples in the metal when attempting to center punch,
she
may be center punching over a large hole, like the one found on the table
of a drill press. Some of those are reversible as are many cordless
drills. Drilling throug 24 guage brass should be like punching through
butter, even with a dull bit, though the hole might not be pretty.

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

Thanks Don,
I'm printing it out and putting it with my stash.

--
Connie Ryman
Cryman Studio

"Don T" wrote in message
...
#61 drill bit is 0.0390 inches in diameter. Here is a nice, printable
table
of numbered drill bit sizes.

http://www.patchn.com/drillsizesnumbered.htm

--

Don Thompson

Remmy sez,
Count de Monet.
Unless, of course, you are Baroque.


"C Ryman" wrote in message
...
The drill bits (some of them) are Esswein, Blue Ribbon drill bits. I
don't
know how the numbers on the container relate to the size, like #61. The
look like regular drill bits only a lot smaller. Some stuff is new but
many of the burrs are old and very used. How does rust affect them? Are
they still usable?

I probably need a smaller punch and some practice. Is it better to
center
punch on metal or wood?

I found a used book on the flex-shaft, when I have time I should be able
to
sort out what all these loose burrs and things are. Luckily I have lots
of
small plastic bags I can label.
Thanks
--
Connie Ryman
Cryman Studio

""Séimí mac Liam"" wrote in message
news
"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in
:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:20:28 -0800, in 0õ "Séimí mac Liam"
wrote:

What size holes are you drilling? Are you sure the rotation is the
right direction?

she's using a standard Fordom flex shaft. These offer only one
directon
of rotation, the correct one for drilling.

She might have had a bad batch of drills, or not been centerpunching
properly, or something like that.

peter

I see that she got the bits with the Fordom, she doesn't say what she's
using to drill the holes, doesn't say any thing about breaking bits, and
if
she's leaving big dimples in the metal when attempting to center punch,
she
may be center punching over a large hole, like the one found on the
table
of a drill press. Some of those are reversible as are many cordless
drills. Drilling throug 24 guage brass should be like punching through
butter, even with a dull bit, though the hole might not be pretty.

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99