Kaleido titanium

wrote:
Good information and link - thankyou. However, what I saw was this :
http://www.absolutetitanium.com/atd-kaleidoti.html
Which I'm sure involves another process. I'm pretty sure this is not a
masking/electroplating technique....any thoughts?
Thanks
Ben

I had a good look at the link listed and even with a very high res
screen its difficult to see the ring surface properly.
My immediate guess is that its elecrolytically etched. In fact this is
simple to do with simple equipment, tho its a no of years since I last
saw it being done, and cant recall the hardware technical details.

This was at IMI new metals division in Birmingham where I was visiting
to research their titanium production and supply.
Thats where they were actually vacumn melting and zone refining the
primary metal from its hexafluride sintered cake.
when each production batch had been finished and machined all over
they would batch no stamp it as part of its documentation( it was for
aircraft use) then check its grain structure by electrolytically etching
it over a 2 in sq area. this took no more tha 5 mins and went to a depth
of 1/16th in. They had a pressure fluid feed through the top of the
electrode that did the etching,which was exposed to all and sundry in
the main workshop si it must have been some simple innocous conducting
fluid.
I saw the finished result and it showed all the grain boundaries quite
clearly to the naked eye.
So this so called "new" exclusive technique is just another sales hype
in my opinion.
titanium is etched by boiing sulphuric and by warm hydrofluric acids.
You will need special equipment to do this. so dont try it .
Most titanium finger rings are made by machining from solid bar. Altho
this costs moore than tube its so much faster on a cnc lathe.
Now it is possible to do quite a lot with heat, my main colouring
treatment for titanium. I had to make some implant jewellery and used on
account of the section needed 2 types of titanium. One was a special
ultra pure spec and the other was the TIV4A6 general purpose alloy.
when I fire oxidised the finished product, the 2 metals came out
different colours from the same temperatue. .The customer was most
surprised and pleased, even tho its colour wont be seen.
I was relieved!.

I think you should investigate anodic painting as an adjunct to your
inlay work, though there may be instances where you would need to mask
off the precios metals if your brush/applicator will be close enough to
touch it.
I've also had good luck doing selective polishing, masking the poilished
area and bead blasting around it. Again, not a specific to Ti process,
but when you include the coloring it adds another technique.
You can texture it with a rolling mill if you back it with some brass.

If you're doing wire inlay niobium may work a little better.

Titanium really has only 2 major attributes. The colors and the
hypoallergenic properties. It isn't alone in being poorly suited to
jewelry certainly, but it's the colors, the HA thing and the name's
association with 'high tech' that sells it. It's tricky to cut, must be
cold-connected (unless you have access to a laser welder), needs a nasty
etchant to get vibrant colors, colors get scratched, not easily sized
for rings, etc.

I think Bill may be doing some custom Ti casting now if that helps.

I wonder if it could be cast or annealed in a closed ceramic
mold/capsule with a bit of charcoal in it to absorb the oxygen?(like the
Reid Technique - http://home.c2i.net/metaphor/index.html )

Carl
1 Lucky Texan


wrote:
Well thankyou Peter,
In my case you're right, the process you've described is well beyond my
abilities and more importantly the equipment I have availible. Now that
you've pointed the way toward crystal stucture it does seem to make
sense - the alpha/beta designations on some Ti alloys is a description
of their different crystal forming states at high temperature I belive.
Probably not attainable with an oxy/acet. torch in my garage then : )

Is there any other way to finish Ti apart from the oxiidisation from
heat or electro-plating? The coloring of Ti is nice but I'm looking for
something new. I'm guessing that the acid etching would not work on Ti
as it is resistant to acids?
I've tried beating copper and silver into inlays in the Ti with some
good results, but I was hoping for another way to patina or surface
finish my work.
Are there any other chemical/mecanical/electrical methods you can think
of?

On another note: Thankyou for your time moderating this group. The
replies and suggestions I receive help me tremendously and push my and
I'm sure many others work forward.


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

OK, so taking all that information together - and bearing in mind that
I am working with the most basic of equipment - let me run this by you
all.
Heat the titanium red hot, let it air cool, repeat several times - (I'm
thinking this would lead to the crystal size getting larger with each
heating)
Polish off the oxide layer and etch in multi-etch (for a long time) or
other etching souloution (perhaps assited by small electric current?)
Maybe this would get the effect we've been discussing?

If all that fails, is there any other soloution that can be used to
etch Ti? I'd rather not deal with Hydrofluoric acid but I have noticed
that most hardware stores carry products which contain acids in lesser
concentrations (ie. wood bleach is oxalic acid - and is used to polish
a sheen on some rocks/marbles, rust remover contains acids that some
people use to patina metals)
What about a glass etching kit? Are there places/companys or methods to
dispose of these nasty chemicals responsibly?
Thanks
Ben

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:06:23 -0800, in hõ wrote:

OK, so taking all that information together - and bearing in mind that
I am working with the most basic of equipment - let me run this by you
all.

Ben, first understand that nobody here currently gets (or at least has admitted to
getting) that result on titanium. We're all guessing. So you can expect to have to do
some perhaps considerable experimenting, and likely will mess up a good deal of metal
trying to get this, before it works, and that's if you get it to work at all. With that
said, experimenting is a great way to learn stuff. Just don't assume this will happen
easily, or that you're guaranteed success.

Heat the titanium red hot, let it air cool, repeat several times - (I'm
thinking this would lead to the crystal size getting larger with each
heating)

maybe, maybe not. The existing grain structure on milled titanium is likely very small,
so you need a LOT of grain growth. I seriously doubt that simple red hot will give you
significant grain growth. If it's like other metals I've worked with, you're heaing
well beyond annealing, and in titanium's case, this will be closer to a "white" hot, for
which you'd very much need protective eyewear, just as for welding steel of melting
platinum. Then, if it's like gold or silver, grain growth occurs only slowly. when I
develop a good sized grain in pure gold, it's in the kiln at about a hundred degrees
below it's melting point, for a good half hour. Your quick torch heats don't yet sound
hot enough, nor extended enough.

And I'm worried that if you DO get it hot enough, you'll find the oxide layer you get is
WAY thicker than you expect. A quick heating to red hot produces an oxide layer thick
enough you don't just polish it off. You grind it off. I'd guess a ten second heating
to a good bright red, which is not likely to be hot enough to do much of anything for
grain growth, will give you an oxide layer that might be several tenths of a millimeter
thick. Do it a few times, and it's quite conceivable to me that you'd oxidize the metal
to a sufficient depth to essentially destroy it.

The only reasonably solution to this that occurs to me is the use of stainless steel
heat treaters foil. Like heavy aluminum foil, only stainless steel. Items tightly
wrapped in this can be heat treated with little available oxygen (just what's in the
thin layer between the foil and the metal). This might proove effective. But I'm not
sure, and the foil is not cheap stuff. You'd have a lot better luck using a kiln, I
think, than a torch, since with the torch flame you'd also have to avoid burning right
through the foil. Possibly tricky, given the temps you'll likely need.


Polish off the oxide layer and etch in multi-etch (for a long time) or
other etching souloution (perhaps assited by small electric current?)
Maybe this would get the effect we've been discussing?

Maybe. Maybe not. Multi etch as sold is designed to produce an even fine etch. It
does not, as supplied and when mixed according to directions, preferentially show the
grain structure. You'd need to use it very weak, or almost depleted, or some other such
condition. At least that's what I expect. Electroetching might help, might not.

This whole part of the deal, etching to get a good crystal structure, may be where you
need to experiment. You might check metalurgical texts (or newsgroups in the sci...
areas) to see what the metalurgists would use to etch titanium to examine it's grain
structure. And even if you get the grain structure, who knows what will be needed to
get the odd randomly colored grains...


If all that fails, is there any other soloution that can be used to
etch Ti?

As someone else pointed out, boiling sulphuric acid, or HF acid, or perhaps their salts.
HF is the common ones. Yes, the glass etching "kits" should give you some etching.
They're based on HF salts.

I'd rather not deal with Hydrofluoric acid but I have noticed
that most hardware stores carry products which contain acids in lesser
concentrations (ie. wood bleach is oxalic acid - and is used to polish
a sheen on some rocks/marbles, rust remover contains acids that some
people use to patina metals)

Lesser concentrations may not be effective, if in the concentrations normally considered
safe in hardware stores. HF is one of the most dangerous acids around. I am not aware
of any hardware store products that use it in the acid form. the glass etching kits are
the only one I've seen at all, among consumer products. Things like multi etch and
similar dental industry products are generally available through industry suppliers, and
sometimes only sold to professional users (example. Just try to buy potassium cyanide
for home use in making electroplating baths. Very hard to find any dealer who'll sell
you a can...)

What about a glass etching kit? Are there places/companys or methods to
dispose of these nasty chemicals responsibly?

as I said, the glass etching kits are still HF salts, and still not totally safe. And I
have no idea what they'll do with titanium. But it's worth a try.

If this were simple and easy on the level of most garage workshops, chances are others
would be doing it. That's not meant to discourage you, only to advise you that this may
take you some considerable effort to figure out. Even the web site you found this on
claims it took them much research... Who knows if it's true...

Peter

vj found this in rec.crafts.jewelry, from "Peter W.. Rowe,"
:

]If this were simple and easy on the level of most garage workshops, chances are others
]would be doing it.

**sigh**
and that is EXACTLY what Oran says whenever i ask:
"will it work if i [fitb]"


--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
[it's a Callahan's thing]
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
"How many ADD kids does it take to change a lightbulb?"
...........
"Let's go ride bikes!"

The Widmanstatten patterns seen in metorites is due to the large xtal
grain structure (from excruciatingly slow cooling) and etching of the
polsihed surface. I feel you would need to concentrate on the first and
then attempt the second. You will likely need to take a nearly finished
item to 'near' molten, hold for some period, and then very slowley ramp
down the temp. This will need to be done in an oxygen free atmosphere -
perhaps in a ceramic capsule containing a bit of charcoal. My wife has
used some glass etching compounds that contain HF. The Multi-etch Bill
Seeley sells is another active form of fluoride and may work well. Or
you may be able to find a bicycle frame manufaturer that could etch your
pieces for you - they are usually set up for HF. Be aware, plenty of
folks have died around HF. Some that weren't killed suffered
excruciating pain. Nasty stuff.

W'statten pattern;
http://www.meteorlab.com/METEORLAB20...ages/gib10.jpg

Sounds like a fun project, be careful around HF.

Carl
1 Lucky Texan


wrote:
OK, so taking all that information together - and bearing in mind that
I am working with the most basic of equipment - let me run this by you
all.
Heat the titanium red hot, let it air cool, repeat several times - (I'm
thinking this would lead to the crystal size getting larger with each
heating)
Polish off the oxide layer and etch in multi-etch (for a long time) or
other etching souloution (perhaps assited by small electric current?)
Maybe this would get the effect we've been discussing?

If all that fails, is there any other soloution that can be used to
etch Ti? I'd rather not deal with Hydrofluoric acid but I have noticed
that most hardware stores carry products which contain acids in lesser
concentrations (ie. wood bleach is oxalic acid - and is used to polish
a sheen on some rocks/marbles, rust remover contains acids that some
people use to patina metals)
What about a glass etching kit? Are there places/companys or methods to
dispose of these nasty chemicals responsibly?
Thanks
Ben


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I looked up HF acids, and read the
discussions on this group in the past on this topic also. I won't
re-open that can of worms, but I read enough to convince me that for
right now, with the facillities I have, HF is not something I want to
use.
I will try the heating, maybe I'll find someone around here (Ojai CA,
USA) who has the proper equipment and I'll let you know how it goes.
Again, thanks for your ideas.
Ben