Gifting of my stitchery

On 1/2/04 9:23 AM, in article ,
"animaux" wrote:

Well, it was a success. I gave "Spiritdancer" to my neighbor's mother. I
labeled it a gift from Rance, her 15 year old grandson who has cerebral palsy
and cannot move, speak, see or eat by himself. This grandmother gives respite
to my neighbor (Rance's mom) for the entire summer, and all school vacations.
I
don't have to tell you all the tears in the room.

Then I decided, well, Celtic Christmas is here too and my neighbor really
loved
her. So, she got that one.

Fortunately, I adore both of these and will almost certainly stitch them
again,
if I want them. If I stitch Celtic Christmas again, she'll be done in blue
with
beads, not that awful gold thread. I hated using that stuff.

I got far more out of giving those to them, than they got out of receiving
them.

Not only does my neighbor have this son Rance, but her other son (19) is
serving
in Iraq in direct line of fire and has participated in just about every street
fight (war).

I don't have to tell anyone the stress level of this family.

Victoria

Victoria,
You are a rare woman!
Someday, I can give you the hug I want to right now!
Cheryl

I am specifically talking about my mother now. She seems to think she can
tell
me things, but the very next day tell me something else, denying that she
ever
told me the first thing. It all confuses me terribly. She says she just
wants
me to be supportive, but of what? What am I supporting, her dysfunction?
I've
been supporting her all my life, is that long enough? Is 48 years time to
say
"when?"

I hate to dump this all on you guys, but from time to time I read and really
learn to be a person from many of you and I need some feedback on this. Why
here?

snip
this mother thing is confusing me.

Thanks for listening. I'm truly not in a struggle, rather, I'm stumped.

Victoria


Dear Victoria,

I can see why you're confused.

I've been there too.

My mother was like that. She also liked to pit her four children against each
other.

The last 3 years of her life (all but her last 3 weeks on this earth), she
wouldn't speak to me -- she had told one sister some things, that sister
changed things up a bit -- she's like my mom in that respect -- things got
totally out of hand.

Well, long story short, my mom went to live with the sister -- who -- let's
just say things didn't go well.

When my mom had enough, she moved back here, and was dxed with cancer. So she
did what she always did in a crisis -- SHE CALLED ME. And I went to her.

If it's any help at all to you to know this -- at the end, she apologized, and
said she realized how much of it was all her fault. She said she hoped there
would be peace in the family. I tried, but it was too late, too many lies and
misrepresentations, just too much dysfunction.

She left behind a mess of a family.

But I had those last three weeks with her, when we were close again, and she
was thinking clearly, and she was being loving and appreciative.

Was that enough? How do you measure that? I don't know. I know I have to
make do with what I have.

I'm sorry your mom is that way, Victoria. Perhaps it is all she knows, and she
can't change at this point in her life. I wouldn't for one minute suggest that
you put up with it. It's wrong, and you shouldn't.

But I would suggest that, if you can, you keep an open heart. Someday, maybe,
things will change, and you'll want to be ready.

It's crazy-making behavior, that's for sure.


Jere

Hmmm, does she honestly not remember saying the first thing? Does she
claim you are putting words in her mouth? Is she in a different mood
the "next day"? Does she also do this with other people? Is she
completely aware of her behavior?

I've just returned from my inlaw's and FIL is a prof. of psychiatry.
I'm certain he would suggest that your mother have an evaluation to make
certain she isn't in early Alzheimer's (even if she has been this way
for a couple of decades) or have a personality disorder or some
underlying medical condition. Of course it is possible she is simply
being, um, cantankerous.

As for yourself, take a couple of large hugs from the bank. You deserve
them!

animaux wrote:
I am specifically talking about my mother now. She seems to think she can tell
me things, but the very next day tell me something else, denying that she ever
told me the first thing. It all confuses me terribly. She says she just wants
me to be supportive, but of what? What am I supporting, her dysfunction? I've
been supporting her all my life, is that long enough? Is 48 years time to say
"when?"

I hate to dump this all on you guys, but from time to time I read and really
learn to be a person from many of you and I need some feedback on this. Why
here? Well, since I post here every day and have been for years, I believe many
people have gotten to know me. Maybe not on a deep level, but enough to see
I've grown over the last few years and have softened up a lot. I can feel that
about myself, but this mother thing is confusing me.

Now, I am not trying to give the impression I am suffering any ill thoughts or
feelings with this. I'm relatively fine about it all. What I don't know how to
do is to be "supportive" of someone who changes the story daily to suit her
whim, but expects me to be supportive. If I had a friend who was to marry a
dirt bag, I would not attend the wedding and support that bond. That's a clear
one. The mother one is harder. Any of you out there psychotherapists willing
to have a discussion about this? We may all learn something.

--
Brenda Lewis
WIP: "Pink Baby" photo frame, Candamar

On 1/2/04 12:49 PM, in article ,
"animaux" wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:41:40 GMT, Cheryl Isaak
opined:


Victoria,
You are a rare woman!
Someday, I can give you the hug I want to right now!
Cheryl

Sometimes I wonder. I wonder if I am this rare person. I'm being serious. I
think maybe I'm a fraud, or maybe I'm not, but either way I wonder.

My sense of deepened spirituality over the course of the last several years,
particularly this past year has brought me to a place where I am not sure I
fully understand. I talk to my mother and I am still very confused by her. I
still can't figure anything out. I am so far detached from dysfunction I
almost
don't know how to be on the other end of it. That's when I wonder the most.
I
wonder if there is something more I'm supposed to be doing.

I believe I'm a supportive person. I'm also very supported. I have a good
life
and I'm forever grateful for that. Where do any of you draw the line between
being supportive and being taken advantage or, or being taken for granted?

I am specifically talking about my mother now. She seems to think she can
tell
me things, but the very next day tell me something else, denying that she ever
told me the first thing. It all confuses me terribly. She says she just
wants
me to be supportive, but of what? What am I supporting, her dysfunction?
I've
been supporting her all my life, is that long enough? Is 48 years time to say
"when?"

I hate to dump this all on you guys, but from time to time I read and really
learn to be a person from many of you and I need some feedback on this. Why
here? Well, since I post here every day and have been for years, I believe
many
people have gotten to know me. Maybe not on a deep level, but enough to see
I've grown over the last few years and have softened up a lot. I can feel that
about myself, but this mother thing is confusing me.

Now, I am not trying to give the impression I am suffering any ill thoughts or
feelings with this. I'm relatively fine about it all. What I don't know how
to
do is to be "supportive" of someone who changes the story daily to suit her
whim, but expects me to be supportive. If I had a friend who was to marry a
dirt bag, I would not attend the wedding and support that bond. That's a
clear
one. The mother one is harder. Any of you out there psychotherapists willing
to have a discussion about this? We may all learn something.

Thanks for listening. I'm truly not in a struggle, rather, I'm stumped.

Victoria

Sometimes you just love them and let the rest slide like the proverbial
water off a duck.

Cheryl

On 1/2/04 9:23 AM,"animaux" posted:

Well, it was a success. I gave "Spiritdancer" to my neighbor's mother. I
labeled it a gift from Rance, her 15 year old grandson who has cerebral palsy
and cannot move, speak, see or eat by himself. This grandmother gives respite
to my neighbor (Rance's mom) for the entire summer, and all school vacations.
I
don't have to tell you all the tears in the room.

Then I decided, well, Celtic Christmas is here too and my neighbor really
loved
her. So, she got that one.

Fortunately, I adore both of these and will almost certainly stitch them
again,
if I want them. If I stitch Celtic Christmas again, she'll be done in blue
with
beads, not that awful gold thread. I hated using that stuff.

I got far more out of giving those to them, than they got out of receiving
them.

Vic - that was a truly generous gift you gave. I'm sure when you stitch them
again for yourself, you'll feel that warmth of having gifted the originals
all over again.

Ellice

On 1/2/04 12:49 PM,"animaux" posted:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:41:40 GMT, Cheryl Isaak
opined:


Victoria,
You are a rare woman!
Someday, I can give you the hug I want to right now!
Cheryl

Sometimes I wonder. I wonder if I am this rare person. I'm being serious. I
think maybe I'm a fraud, or maybe I'm not, but either way I wonder.

Well, it's good to wonder - at least IMHO. We recently took 2 of our
surrogate children out - hockey game, dinner pre-game, hangin' in the club
post game. It was a great night. As we were driving home, we were talking
with them (they're a 19 yr old soph at BU & a 17.5 yr old senior in high
school) - knowing that their folks joke about our frivolity. The kids are
easy with us - as we're not completely typical of the family "adult" friends
(we're talking a really, really, geeky but nice collection of engineers,
scientists, etc). But often I think they take our sports car, hockey tix,
other material things out of perspective. We had a nice talk about us
realizing that while we do live pretty luxuriously, or frivolously - we're
not all tied up in that as the meaning of life. Understanding that so much
of this is just things, and not the essence of our lives - and that it's a
good thing to remember. It's hard to balance the everyday pleasantness of
material life, and those things which are truly important - to you for your
spiritual well-being. You do your best, I'd guess, and that's what counts.

My sense of deepened spirituality over the course of the last several years,
particularly this past year has brought me to a place where I am not sure I
fully understand. I talk to my mother and I am still very confused by her. I
still can't figure anything out. I am so far detached from dysfunction I
almost
don't know how to be on the other end of it. That's when I wonder the most.
I
wonder if there is something more I'm supposed to be doing.

I believe I'm a supportive person. I'm also very supported. I have a good
life
and I'm forever grateful for that. Where do any of you draw the line between
being supportive and being taken advantage or, or being taken for granted?

I'm going to snip the rest of this painful recounting. I think people are
blessed, truly, when they're family manages to not have someone who is truly
dysfunctional, or disruptive. There are always difficulties in
relationships, some more than others. I'd be happy if we in our small family
(parents, grandparents, all gone, only 1 aunt, 1 sibling of my grandmother
left) could just have the normal little rivalries, ups/downs, goods and
bads. In our family - it is my SIL. I have tried, like you, for many years
to deal with it, figure out what I can do to make it better. But, finally, I
accept - it's her. She's just not a good person. I am happy when she's
pleasant, and basically try to be cold to all the rest - in not getting
hurt, upset, riled up. It's very hard. She is constantly critical, shallow,
demanding, rude, and worst of all a liar. She has told so many horrid
stories to my DB, and others that it took 2 years of DB and I not talking,
and our "uncle" to finally confront him - for DB to finally realize he'd
been misled. She's taken property of my parents that was left to me, and
lied about it. Worst - she says all kinds of negative and disrespectful
things about others - in front of the children. It's terrible. But, finally
- all the rest of us whose lives touch her - we kind of just shake our
heads, and try to ignore it. It's hard. It's sad. Sometimes all you can do
is be the good person you are, or try to be, and hope that speaks for you
and that others under the bad influence will realize it. For me, we all hope
that as my nieces and nephews become adults, they will be better able to
make their own judgements about the rest of their family - despite their
mother's ravings.

You draw the line with doing what makes you feel you've done what you can,
reasonably, and work thru the rest. Guilt levels are different for all of
us. But if you know you're being manipulated - you can always tell her that,
and refuse to give in when it's painful to you. Do what you think is right,
and leave it at that. Just my opinion.


Thanks for listening. I'm truly not in a struggle, rather, I'm stumped.

Sometimes people who act maliciously, or manipulatively are just stupefying.
That's how it is with my SIL. Just don't get it - but I think somehow she
makes herself feel important. I don¹t know. Not a psycho-therapist - but I
think it's the kind of thing best spoken with a counselor in person if it's
really bothering you.

ellice

animaux wrote:


Now, I am not trying to give the impression I am suffering any ill thoughts or
feelings with this. I'm relatively fine about it all. What I don't know how to
do is to be "supportive" of someone who changes the story daily to suit her
whim, but expects me to be supportive.


I think you find it confusing because it's impossible ;-)
It seems to me there's nothing *to* "support." "Support" implies
there's something *there*, but if she's changing her tune all
the time, there isn't really anything there to support. So
really, she's looking for something else, and she probably
doesn't even know what it is. In my experience (which is
fortunately limited), you can try:

1) If you have any clue what she's really needing (even if
she doesn't know what it is herself), try feeding her
that.

2) Just live your life with integrity and compassion,
knowing that you can't fix this for her. Even if you
parrotted back whatever she asked for that day, it
still wouldn't satisfy.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Dear Victoria: Two words. Protect yourself!

I know, I have btdt. I won't go into detail, but I was (by far) the youngest,
with two older brothers, but I was "only a girl". My poor, neurotic mother was
the kind who adored her husband and her sons, but I was just a daughter. Last
time I was in England I vowed I would not go back until after she was dead.

Does it occur to you that all the spiritual growth you have had to go through
was caused by that manipulative, controlling woman?? I know that in my case,
mine gave me a HUGE inferiority complex, which took me years to work through
AFTER I was married and living on this side of the pond.

If you have to detach from her, ignore her, and refuse to listen to her
nonsense, DO IT. It will not be easy for you at first, but I think you need
to insist on maintaining your own self respect, and refusing to tolerate her
nonsense.

E-mail me privately if you need to unload.

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans

On 1/2/04 9:49 PM, in article ,
"animaux" wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:24:16 GMT, Cheryl Isaak
opined:

Sometimes you just love them and let the rest slide like the proverbial
water off a duck.

Cheryl

I think you're right, Cheryl. I guess this is what I'm feeling and this is a
new way of feeling for me so it is a bit daunting. I have stepped outside of
the enmeshment and it's feeling strange. New territory for me. I usually get
all caught up with anxiety and then I get spastic colon and yadda yadda yadda.
That doesn't happen any more and it feels great, but sort of like I'm leaving
her behind. I guess I have to give myself permission to grow, even if I can't
share that with her. It's sad in a way.

Victoria


Victoria,

Sometimes I wonder how my relatives and I can be so very different. We have
gone in such different directions and I just don't understand choices they
made. I suspect they feel the same way. We love each other and do the best
we can. That is all you can ask of them and YOURSELF.

It will take a while and a little bit of will power on your part too.

Cheryl

On 1/2/04 9:49 PM, in article ,
"animaux" wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:24:16 GMT, Cheryl Isaak
opined:

Sometimes you just love them and let the rest slide like the proverbial
water off a duck.

Cheryl

I think you're right, Cheryl. I guess this is what I'm feeling and this is a
new way of feeling for me so it is a bit daunting. I have stepped outside of
the enmeshment and it's feeling strange. New territory for me. I usually get
all caught up with anxiety and then I get spastic colon and yadda yadda yadda.
That doesn't happen any more and it feels great, but sort of like I'm leaving
her behind. I guess I have to give myself permission to grow, even if I can't
share that with her. It's sad in a way.

Victoria


Victoria,

Sometimes I wonder how my relatives and I can be so very different. We have
gone in such different directions and I just don't understand choices they
made. I suspect they feel the same way. We love each other and do the best
we can. That is all you can ask of them and YOURSELF.

It will take a while and a little bit of will power on your part too.

Cheryl