silver soldering for novice

Hi there... new to the group... new to making Jewellery...

I am trying to make a silver pendant for my girlfriend's birthday and am
having some success.. I have created the body of it.. and all that is needed
now is to solder a hoop on for the chain to go through...

I have bought a hoop from a jewellery store and some silver solder (easy)
and flux (power that needs mixing with meths apparently).... but being a
complete novice I have no idea of things I should be careful of when trying
this... I have tried to melt the solder with a soldering iron (Duh!) which I
now understand is pretty silly... and know that I need some sort of blow
torch... I have access to a normal one... like a plumbers... is this
acceptable ? Or will I need some specialist kind ? Please keep in mind that
I only need to get this piece finished and wont need any tools again.

Also.... what kind of process would be best.... would it be better to create
a 'pool' of the solder and then dab the hoop onto it and let it set? Or does
this kind of solder not 'pool' like ordinary solder? If not how would I make
sure that the solder reached under the hoop and formed a proper joint ?

I understand that I must sound a complete novice... but any help would be
much appreciated.

Dave

Regards,"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
Hi there... new to the group... new to making Jewellery...

I am trying to make a silver pendant for my girlfriend's birthday and am
having some success.. I have created the body of it.. and all that is
needed
now is to solder a hoop on for the chain to go through...

I have bought a hoop from a jewellery store and some silver solder (easy)
and flux (power that needs mixing with meths apparently).... but being a
complete novice I have no idea of things I should be careful of when
trying
this... I have tried to melt the solder with a soldering iron (Duh!) which
I
now understand is pretty silly... and know that I need some sort of blow
torch... I have access to a normal one... like a plumbers... is this
acceptable ? Or will I need some specialist kind ? Please keep in mind
that
I only need to get this piece finished and wont need any tools again.

Also.... what kind of process would be best.... would it be better to
create
a 'pool' of the solder and then dab the hoop onto it and let it set? Or
does
this kind of solder not 'pool' like ordinary solder? If not how would I
make
sure that the solder reached under the hoop and formed a proper joint ?

I understand that I must sound a complete novice... but any help would be
much appreciated.

Dave



Hi Dave,
You can use a normal plumber's torch, but be very careful not to melt the
pendant as well as the solder. Here is the process...
First, make sure the joint area is clean and free of grease.
Next, mix up some flux - I personally use water with the powder, but meths
will also work. Place a little powder in a small dish - an eggcup is fine -
and add the water or meths to make a paste with the consistency of double
cream. The liquid is just used to hold the flux in place - its the powder
itself that's the flux, not the liquid.
Cut off a small snippet of the solder - you have to judge it by eye. You
need enough to make the joint - too much and you will spend time filing the
excess away, too little and you will have to add more. About 2 x 2 x 0.5 mm
should be about right.
Using a small paint brush (as used for watercolour painting), paint some
flux onto the joint area - you don't need a lot - then pick up the solder
snippet with the tip of the brush and place it on the joint.
The process of soldering is really very simple: the molten solder wets the
joint and freezes when the heat is removed. The trouble is, if the molten
solder doesn't wet the joint, there is no joining. Like water, the molten
solder will not wet the joint if there is any dirt or grease present - worse
still, the very process of heating the joint causes the oxygen in the air to
oxidise the joint, and its the oxide that prevents the solder from wetting.
The molten flux (the powder actually melts when heated) acts as a barrier to
prevent the oxygen from getting to the bare metal - it also does a fair job
of removing any oxide that might already be present, but its best to make
sure its nice and clean from the start and not to rely on this. The molten
solder will stop flowing as soon as it reaches metal cooler than its melting
point - so its very important to heat the joint. If the joint is not hot
enough to melt the solder the joint will be useless.
Light the torch and carefully heat the joint area until the solder melts and
flows into the joint. This can be tricky 'cos the flux tends to bubble up
at first (like a white foam) and dislodges the solder. Heat it slowly at
first and if the flux foams, remove the flame till it stops and then
continue. After a while the foaming stops and the flux turns transparent,
now is the time to bring the joint up to temperature. Don't take too long
'cos the hot flux only retains its properties for a minute or two - if it
turns a dirty black/brown you will have to start over.
Try not the heat the solder directly - if you do it will melt into a ball
and just sit there. When the joint area is hot enough, the solder will melt
and flow into the joint. When this happens, remove the heat immediately and
let the job cool down. Remember, too much heat will melt the job, so its
best to practise first.
Once you have made your joint you will probably be appalled at the
appearance of the pendant - it will look very dirty because of the oxide
that has formed. You must pop the job into a pickle bath to remove the oxide
and solidified flux. I normally use a 10% H2SO4 solution, but you can also
use citric acid, or even vinegar. Just place the job in the pickle until the
oxide is removed. This takes around a minute or two for cold H2SO4, but
maybe 30-60 mins for vinegar. Take it out of the pickle with copper or
plastic tweezers (don't use steel else you might coat the job with copper),
wash in clean water, and if there is still some oxide, try rubbing it off
with your fingers. If its still there, pop it back in the pickle.
When there is no trace of oxide or flux left, you can then polish the job to
finish it. If you don't have a polishing mop you will have to use metal
polish and elbow grease.

I hope this helps.

--


Gary Wooding

"Wooding" wrote in message
...
Regards,"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
Hi there... new to the group... new to making Jewellery...

I am trying to make a silver pendant for my girlfriend's birthday and am
having some success.. I have created the body of it.. and all that is
needed
now is to solder a hoop on for the chain to go through...

I have bought a hoop from a jewellery store and some silver solder
(easy)
and flux (power that needs mixing with meths apparently).... but being a
complete novice I have no idea of things I should be careful of when
trying
this... I have tried to melt the solder with a soldering iron (Duh!)
which
I
now understand is pretty silly... and know that I need some sort of blow
torch... I have access to a normal one... like a plumbers... is this
acceptable ? Or will I need some specialist kind ? Please keep in mind
that
I only need to get this piece finished and wont need any tools again.

Also.... what kind of process would be best.... would it be better to
create
a 'pool' of the solder and then dab the hoop onto it and let it set? Or
does
this kind of solder not 'pool' like ordinary solder? If not how would I
make
sure that the solder reached under the hoop and formed a proper joint ?

I understand that I must sound a complete novice... but any help would
be
much appreciated.

Dave



Hi Dave,
You can use a normal plumber's torch, but be very careful not to melt the
pendant as well as the solder. Here is the process...
First, make sure the joint area is clean and free of grease.
Next, mix up some flux - I personally use water with the powder, but meths
will also work. Place a little powder in a small dish - an eggcup is
fine -
and add the water or meths to make a paste with the consistency of double
cream. The liquid is just used to hold the flux in place - its the powder
itself that's the flux, not the liquid.
Cut off a small snippet of the solder - you have to judge it by eye. You
need enough to make the joint - too much and you will spend time filing
the
excess away, too little and you will have to add more. About 2 x 2 x 0.5
mm
should be about right.
Using a small paint brush (as used for watercolour painting), paint some
flux onto the joint area - you don't need a lot - then pick up the solder
snippet with the tip of the brush and place it on the joint.
The process of soldering is really very simple: the molten solder wets the
joint and freezes when the heat is removed. The trouble is, if the molten
solder doesn't wet the joint, there is no joining. Like water, the molten
solder will not wet the joint if there is any dirt or grease present -
worse
still, the very process of heating the joint causes the oxygen in the air
to
oxidise the joint, and its the oxide that prevents the solder from
wetting.
The molten flux (the powder actually melts when heated) acts as a barrier
to
prevent the oxygen from getting to the bare metal - it also does a fair
job
of removing any oxide that might already be present, but its best to make
sure its nice and clean from the start and not to rely on this. The
molten
solder will stop flowing as soon as it reaches metal cooler than its
melting
point - so its very important to heat the joint. If the joint is not hot
enough to melt the solder the joint will be useless.
Light the torch and carefully heat the joint area until the solder melts
and
flows into the joint. This can be tricky 'cos the flux tends to bubble up
at first (like a white foam) and dislodges the solder. Heat it slowly at
first and if the flux foams, remove the flame till it stops and then
continue. After a while the foaming stops and the flux turns transparent,
now is the time to bring the joint up to temperature. Don't take too long
'cos the hot flux only retains its properties for a minute or two - if it
turns a dirty black/brown you will have to start over.
Try not the heat the solder directly - if you do it will melt into a ball
and just sit there. When the joint area is hot enough, the solder will
melt
and flow into the joint. When this happens, remove the heat immediately
and
let the job cool down. Remember, too much heat will melt the job, so its
best to practise first.
Once you have made your joint you will probably be appalled at the
appearance of the pendant - it will look very dirty because of the oxide
that has formed. You must pop the job into a pickle bath to remove the
oxide
and solidified flux. I normally use a 10% H2SO4 solution, but you can
also
use citric acid, or even vinegar. Just place the job in the pickle until
the
oxide is removed. This takes around a minute or two for cold H2SO4, but
maybe 30-60 mins for vinegar. Take it out of the pickle with copper or
plastic tweezers (don't use steel else you might coat the job with
copper),
wash in clean water, and if there is still some oxide, try rubbing it off
with your fingers. If its still there, pop it back in the pickle.
When there is no trace of oxide or flux left, you can then polish the job
to
finish it. If you don't have a polishing mop you will have to use metal
polish and elbow grease.

I hope this helps.

--


Gary Wooding



Thanks Gary

I have already had a go at this... and had complete success !

I ended up buying a small butane blow lamp... the kind you use for cooking I
think.... it worked really well....The join seems to be really strong.... I
did try a test run on another piece.... they both turned out great so now I
have two... I did have some trouble with the flux... I put a little on but
it just seemed to dry out and go powdery... in the end I just rubbed a
little on to clean the joint..... I am sure I didn't use it right.... but
the solder seemed to melt great and run into the joint anyway... maybe it
was luck rather than anything else.... I didn't use a bath to clean it....
just lots of emery paper and t-cut actually! Worked great... but next time I
think I will try that.... might save me some time.

Thanks for the help anyway... I think I have the bug now and I am going to
try making a ring with the left over silver I have.

Dave

"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
I did have some trouble with the flux... I put a little on but
it just seemed to dry out and go powdery... in the end I just rubbed a
little on to clean the joint..... I am sure I didn't use it right.... but
the solder seemed to melt great and run into the joint anyway... maybe it
was luck rather than anything else.... I didn't use a bath to clean it....
just lots of emery paper and t-cut actually! Worked great... but next time
I
think I will try that.... might save me some time.

I'm glad it worked.
As you discovered, it doesn't matter that the flux seemed to dry out; as
mentioned before, the job of the liquid is just to keep the flux where you
want it - the heat from the flame drives the liquid off long before the flux
powder melts. When hard soldering big items (not jewellery bits) its common
to use a rod of solder instead of a little snippet. The tip of the rod is
heated a little and dipped into the flux powder which melts onto the rod. As
the flame is played on the joint, the tip of the solder rod (with the molten
flux) is stroked onto the joint and some of the flux is left. As the joint
is brought up to temperature, the rod is periodically stroked onto the joint
(which heats the tip of coarse) and then dipped into the flux again. The
rod is then doing two jobs - it is testing the joint for temperature ('cos
the solder melts as soon as the joint is hot enough) and it is a handy way
to get the flux powder into the right spot. Its impractical to use this
technique for jewellery 'cos the pieces are too lightweight to be stroked.
The pickle bath saves a great deal of work, and even works in crevices where
emery paper cannot reach. You can even get a non-acid pickle if you don't
like the idea of using acid - I've never used it myself, but I have used
vinegar in an emergency.

Welcome to the land of jewellery making.
--

Regards,
Gary Wooding

In article ,
Wooding wrote:
... When hard soldering big items (not jewellery bits) its common to use
a rod of solder instead of a little snippet. The tip of the rod is heated
a little and dipped into the flux powder which melts onto the rod. As the
flame is played on the joint, the tip of the solder rod (with the molten
flux) is stroked onto the joint and some of the flux is left. As the
joint is brought up to temperature, the rod is periodically stroked onto
the joint (which heats the tip of coarse) and then dipped into the flux
again. The rod is then doing two jobs - it is testing the joint for
temperature ('cos the solder melts as soon as the joint is hot enough)
and it is a handy way to get the flux powder into the right spot.

This is a good description of stick soldering, thanks Gary. It's what I do
quite a bit for some of my jewellery jobs.

Its impractical to use this technique for jewellery 'cos the pieces are
too lightweight to be stroked.

Not entirely; some small pieces of jewellery you can hold down with a clamp
or lead-filled weight.

Brian

--
B r i a n A d a m
e y e g l a s s e s j e w e l l e r y
Auckland NEW ZEALAND
www.adam.co.nz

"Wooding" wrote in message
...
"Dave Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
I did have some trouble with the flux... I put a little on but
it just seemed to dry out and go powdery... in the end I just rubbed a
little on to clean the joint..... I am sure I didn't use it right....
but
the solder seemed to melt great and run into the joint anyway... maybe
it
was luck rather than anything else.... I didn't use a bath to clean
it....
just lots of emery paper and t-cut actually! Worked great... but next
time
I
think I will try that.... might save me some time.

I'm glad it worked.
As you discovered, it doesn't matter that the flux seemed to dry out; as
mentioned before, the job of the liquid is just to keep the flux where you
want it - the heat from the flame drives the liquid off long before the
flux
powder melts. When hard soldering big items (not jewellery bits) its
common
to use a rod of solder instead of a little snippet. The tip of the rod is
heated a little and dipped into the flux powder which melts onto the rod.
As
the flame is played on the joint, the tip of the solder rod (with the
molten
flux) is stroked onto the joint and some of the flux is left. As the joint
is brought up to temperature, the rod is periodically stroked onto the
joint
(which heats the tip of coarse) and then dipped into the flux again. The
rod is then doing two jobs - it is testing the joint for temperature ('cos
the solder melts as soon as the joint is hot enough) and it is a handy way
to get the flux powder into the right spot. Its impractical to use this
technique for jewellery 'cos the pieces are too lightweight to be
stroked.
The pickle bath saves a great deal of work, and even works in crevices
where
emery paper cannot reach. You can even get a non-acid pickle if you don't
like the idea of using acid - I've never used it myself, but I have used
vinegar in an emergency.

Welcome to the land of jewellery making.
--

Regards,
Gary Wooding




Yeah thats a great help... thanks again.

I really think its just a case of practice now and I will find out the way
things work best as I go.

I have made a couple of rings now.... both worked out good. One thing
though.... my finger turned slightly green! I'm sure that the metal is
silver and I did get proper silver solder... maybe its the flux... or
something... perhaps I didn't clean it as good as I should have... I did use
the vinegar dip though... any ideas ?

Next project I think is to make another ring... and perhaps set some sort of
stone in it ? I'm not talking delicate claw work... just something big and
solid would be good. Again I have no idea how to do this ( Anyone point me
at some websites that might help ?)

I'm really quite enjoying this now! Thanks again...

Dave

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:14:32 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Dave Wilkinson"
wrote:

Next project I think is to make another ring... and perhaps set some sort of
stone in it ? I'm not talking delicate claw work... just something big and
solid would be good. Again I have no idea how to do this ( Anyone point me
at some websites that might help ?)

Since it seems you're now finding this enjoyable, might I suggest that it's now
high time to find either a public library or the local bookstore, or an online
bookstore (there are several, beginning with Amazon.com, and including the GIA
bookstore at www.gia.edu, among others, that will be happy to supply any of
quite a number of highly useful books on the subject of jewelery making. The
perhaps 20 bucks you might spend will save you many, many, hours of frustration,
ignite lots of great ideas in your head, and show you possibilities you might
not have dreamed of exploring. Trust me on this one. While this forum and it's
readers and participants, myself included, as well as our main competition, the
Orchid mail list (found at Ganoksin.com) offer a wealth of folks with lots of
experience eager to help, you'll find we're perhaps most useful when you have
specific questions and problems. Starting with a book as a good background,
you'll be lightyears ahead in terms of knowing what to ask, and where to start.

Titles I'd suggest as possible starting points are Tim McCreights "complete
metalsmith", Murrey Bovin's "jewelery making", books by Silvia Wicks or Jinks
McGrath, or if you can still find a copy, Phillip Morton's "Contemporary
Jewelry" is very excellent. And these are just the first few (and with
reasonable costs) that jump to mind. There are many dozens more.

Trust me on this one. You won't regret it. (And if you DO find you regret it,
you can always resell the book here on the newsgroup, so long as it's not an ad
for an ebay auction...)

Peter

"Peter W. Rowe" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:14:32 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Dave Wilkinson"
wrote:

Next project I think is to make another ring... and perhaps set some
sort of
stone in it ? I'm not talking delicate claw work... just something big
and
solid would be good. Again I have no idea how to do this ( Anyone point
me
at some websites that might help ?)

Since it seems you're now finding this enjoyable, might I suggest that
it's now
high time to find either a public library or the local bookstore, or an
online
bookstore (there are several, beginning with Amazon.com, and including the
GIA
bookstore at www.gia.edu, among others, that will be happy to supply any
of
quite a number of highly useful books on the subject of jewelery making.
The
perhaps 20 bucks you might spend will save you many, many, hours of
frustration,
ignite lots of great ideas in your head, and show you possibilities you
might
not have dreamed of exploring. Trust me on this one. While this forum
and it's
readers and participants, myself included, as well as our main
competition, the
Orchid mail list (found at Ganoksin.com) offer a wealth of folks with lots
of
experience eager to help, you'll find we're perhaps most useful when you
have
specific questions and problems. Starting with a book as a good
background,
you'll be lightyears ahead in terms of knowing what to ask, and where to
start.

Titles I'd suggest as possible starting points are Tim McCreights
"complete
metalsmith", Murrey Bovin's "jewelery making", books by Silvia Wicks or
Jinks
McGrath, or if you can still find a copy, Phillip Morton's "Contemporary
Jewelry" is very excellent. And these are just the first few (and with
reasonable costs) that jump to mind. There are many dozens more.

Trust me on this one. You won't regret it. (And if you DO find you
regret it,
you can always resell the book here on the newsgroup, so long as it's not
an ad
for an ebay auction...)

Peter

Yeah I agree.... I think thats the way forward.... I did look at some books
while I was trying to make the piece for my girlfriend but they didn't
really help ( Think they were just not up to scratch )

I'll check out the books from your list though.... sounds like the right
place to start.

Thanks man

Dave

Titles I'd suggest as possible starting points are Tim McCreights "complete
metalsmith"

This is an excellent choice by the way. It will give you ideas and methods
that will last a beginner a good long time. I still refer to it on occassion.