Salt and vinegar pickling solution?

Alan Balmer wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:30:25 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:


J. Dawson wrote:

Hi,

I've read in numerous places that it's possible to pickle copper and
silver after soldering with a solution of salt and vinegar, but nowhere
have I found information relating to proportions of the ingredients.

As a beginner at soldering metal, I'm interested in trying this at least
for my first few pickling attempts before moving on to "real" chemicals
which, to be honest, scare me more than a little!

Does anyone have any ideas about amounts and how effective this method is?

TIA,

Janie

Janie,
You have had encyclopedic replies to your pickling question. Its
probably enough for you to work with for some time.
However the question of acid hasnt been mentioned much so I might be
able to help you here.
dont be afraid of acids, IF you have the practical information on how
to use them they will be a great help to you in your s/smithing.
the 1st one to look at is Sulphuric.


Sulphuric acid at the concentration used in batteries is safer than
the concentrated stuff, but I would not say "don't be afraid of it." A
healthy fear is good, because this acid can not only burn flesh, but
eat many substances it comes in contact with.


now you can go down the complicated route by going to a pharmachutical
co and getting the concentrate etc. How ever theres a much easier way to
get and use this acid (which I use) as its the simplest way.
Most car batteries use this acid in a dilute form, you cna get these

from your recycling center or from a friend who changes one from their car.

this is what you do.
Get a plastic wash up bowl and use outside on some hard surface near
a drain , unscrew the filler plugs on the battery, and with a pair of
wash up gloves on


Perhaps you should elaborate on what you mean by "wash up gloves." I
certainly don't know what you mean. What materials are suitable and
safe?


pick up the battery and turn upside down into the bowl.
this will drain out the acid.
when drained lift out the battery put back the plugs and pour over
it some wash up water, its mildly alkaline to rinse off any acid drops.


Again, what do you mean by "wash up water"? Common tap water is
certainly not alkaline enough to neutralize much acid, and in fact may
be mildly acidic itself. I would suggest using a baking soda solution
and adding it until there is no reaction, plus a bit.

Take you bowl and with a plastic funnel and a suitable plastic screw top
container, pour your acid into this. Not a empty food /drinks container.

Screw on the cap and rinse off as before inc your gloves.
Take your battery to a proper place for disposal, and label and mark
the plastic container properly. Store in a cool dry place on a floor.
Now youve your acid heres how to use it.
If you can use a reactive flux like commercial silver brazing operatives
use and cover your work with it you wont get firestain, in fact there
are fluxes that actually dissolve thes oxides out of the metal. thats
another subject alltogether.
do your soldering and with appropriate tweezers or tongs dependent on
the size of your piece drop into clear cold water whilst its still hot.
this will thermally crack off most of the flux residues. When cold
remove and drop into a small glass jar say a 1lb jam jar half full with
your acid.
Dont use any metal tongs to remove as youll get contamination of your
acid and get electrolytic plating.
Cover your acid pot with onother glass cover not a metal one! and put
somewhere where it wont get trodden on or kicked over.
You can use this acid pot for copper after using it for silver. But you
cant do it the other way round.

Leave in the acid for 5 to 10 mins and take a look at it. It should
be nicely white and slightly frosted.

Rinse well and dry off. I do this with a slow soft torch as its so much
faster. the I use a very fine steel or preferably stainless steel wire
brush on my polishing spindle a slow one will do and lightly brush all
over. To prepare this wheel run it against some fine emery paper.

Always have lots of rinsing water about when handling acids.
hope this helps.
Ted Frater An old sweat of a silver smith.



Hmmm,
You ask a difficult question Mr. Balmer,
Should I elaborate on the advanced technical details of "Wash up
gloves" and "Wash up water"?
Apart from me being a signatory of the Official secrets Acts here in the
UK and the fact we have as moderator of this newsgroup a tough and
unforgiving master who strikes fear into us lesser contributors who
dare stray off topic, which this certainly is,,
I guess you deserve some guidelines on this esoteric subject.
Probably the simplest way I can outline these technical secrets is to
run a simple scenario .
So "her indoors" has been slaving over a hot stove on your behalf(
assuming youve cut enough wood for her to use)
preparing your favorite 3 course meal whilst youve been watching the
Saturday football match on the telly.
Youve done justice to your dinner with thec usual grunts of
acknowledgement.(you had better eat it all up!) cos if youve left
something youll be asked dont you like it? or whats wrong with it?
Now after your second cuppa your presented with an apron , which is as
you should know only too well ,its time to put it on( Whos the pretty
boy then!!)
and slowly drag yourself into the kitchen. your presented with what
looks as tho a tornado has hit the place.
Its going to be the usual daily "time to knock it into shape! scenario.
you reach over to the hook on the wall where the 2 pairs of vinyl
gloves are hung up. theres the pink pair( hardly used ) and the green
pair a lot larger and well used!!.
you put these on, trying to see which is the left and the right amidst
the steam coming from the hot tap youve conveniently turned on.
youve filled up the wash up bowl with tap water and added a good
squirt of wash up liquid. This is usually abtained from your local
supermarket and called dazzo or something similar. If your lucky it will
smell a bit like a hospital and an air freshner combined, with lots of
bubbles.
If your still lucky you might have a wash up brush which isnt all worn
out and a industrial pot scourer.
You then spend the next hour or so working your way through this debacle
till youve got it into the shape youd like to find it.
From the other room where the sound of knitting comes youll get those
dulcet tones saying
"how are you getting on in there?" dear?
you better have it right or else it will be "Ive a headache , or
"stomach pains" and you eventually turn in with the thought of the same
scene to look forward to next day.
hope this helps.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:

Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are
two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about
that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly
different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have
no further comments on your writings.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting

Your loss.

--

Don Thompson

Remmy sez,
Count de Monet.
Unless, of course, you are Baroque.


"Alan Balmer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:

Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are
two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about
that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly
different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have
no further comments on your writings.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Don T"
wrote:

top post corrected

"Alan Balmer" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:

Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are
two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about
that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly
different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have
no further comments on your writings.

Your loss.

--
I thank you for your interest in my comments, but fail to see how my
lack of comment could be a loss to me. If Mr. Frater wants to make
jokes about dangerous chemicals, that's his choice. Having raised the
warning, there is no further need for me to comment.

BTW, did you realize that your top-posting leaves your signature
separator in the middle of the message, and causes standard news
clients (including Agent, the one you use) to delete everything after
it on a reply? I had to cut and paste the context.

Don Thompson

Remmy sez,
Count de Monet.
Unless, of course, you are Baroque.


--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting

Alan Balmer wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Don T"
wrote:

top post corrected

"Alan Balmer" wrote in message
. ..

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:

Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are
two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about
that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly
different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have
no further comments on your writings.


Your loss.

--

I thank you for your interest in my comments, but fail to see how my
lack of comment could be a loss to me. If Mr. Frater wants to make
jokes about dangerous chemicals, that's his choice. Having raised the
warning, there is no further need for me to comment.

BTW, did you realize that your top-posting leaves your signature
separator in the middle of the message, and causes standard news
clients (including Agent, the one you use) to delete everything after
it on a reply? I had to cut and paste the context.

Don Thompson

Remmy sez,
Count de Monet.
Unless, of course, you are Baroque.



I do think that everyone has the right to reply if inaccuraces are quoted.
I did not make jokes nor never would about dangerous chemicals.
I someone lacks the ability to understand what wash up gloves and
washup water is then its their problem.
If one checks back and looks at the posts Ive made to this newsgroup
over the years I have repeatedly advised beginners who want to learn
this craft to take an apprenticeship as then the beginner will be
exposed to all the tools, equiopment, materials and techniques including
how to recover sulphuric acid from batteries , which was the subject of
my reply.
By being in a silversmithing enviroment you will see skilled people
using all the tools, chemicals materials and larger equipment . There
is no substitite for this and it highlights the serious limitations of
the written word.
Ido not joke about chemicals.
If you consider wash up water dangerous then so be it.
Its like anything else, even ordinary plain water can be dangerous
and a killer.
If for example you fall into it at 50mph. you most probably be
killed., but on its own you drink it from a glass or whatever especially
if its got some Scots Wisky in it.
see what I mean?
Silversmithing encompasses a very wide range of knowhow and skills that
does take years to aquire and practice. assuming youe an aptitide for it.
All the learning from books is a waste of time if you havnt got it in
the hands so to speak.
Some have it some havnt.

Alan Balmer wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Don T"
wrote:

top post corrected

"Alan Balmer" wrote in message
. ..

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:52:46 GMT, Ted Frater
wrote:

Mr. Frater, it is often said that the British and the Americans are
two peoples separated by a common language. You might think about
that. Also, it appears that you and I are separated by vastly
different attitudes on what I consider serious subjects. I will have
no further comments on your writings.


Your loss.

--

I thank you for your interest in my comments, but fail to see how my
lack of comment could be a loss to me. If Mr. Frater wants to make
jokes about dangerous chemicals, that's his choice. Having raised the
warning, there is no further need for me to comment.

BTW, did you realize that your top-posting leaves your signature
separator in the middle of the message, and causes standard news
clients (including Agent, the one you use) to delete everything after
it on a reply? I had to cut and paste the context.

Don Thompson

Remmy sez,
Count de Monet.
Unless, of course, you are Baroque.



I do think that everyone has the right to reply if inaccuraces are quoted.
I did not make jokes nor never would about dangerous chemicals.
I someone lacks the ability to understand what wash up gloves and
washup water is then its their problem.
If one checks back and looks at the posts Ive made to this newsgroup
over the years I have repeatedly advised beginners who want to learn
this craft to take an apprenticeship as then the beginner will be
exposed to all the tools, equiopment, materials and techniques including
how to recover sulphuric acid from batteries , which was the subject of
my reply.
By being in a silversmithing enviroment you will see skilled people
using all the tools, chemicals materials and larger equipment . There
is no substitite for this and it highlights the serious limitations of
the written word.
Ido not joke about chemicals.
If you consider wash up water dangerous then so be it.
Its like anything else, even ordinary plain water can be dangerous
and a killer.
If for example you fall into it at 50mph. you most probably be
killed., but on its own you drink it from a glass or whatever especially
if its got some Scots Wisky in it.
see what I mean?
Silversmithing encompasses a very wide range of knowhow and skills that
does take years to aquire and practice. assuming youe an aptitide for it.
All the learning from books is a waste of time if you havnt got it in
the hands so to speak.
Some have it some havnt.