help please.

I guess everyone takes a turn spewing their guts here, right?

yep, Marisa, we can if we want to!

something you said earlier really resonated for me--
I used to come home, see this enormous mess, and feel it was a reflection of
my inner state: a mess so huge and complex that it was impossible to deal
with, and so all-encompasing that there was no non-messed up spot to rest my
eyes on.

This happens to me too. I live in a household with four very creatively messy
people ,with me admittedly the the biggest "pile" culprit. Some days I can
barely stand it--and in tracking my swings/insomnia/headache patterns, I notice
that its right before my period that I can't stand the mess (tracking patterns
on the calendar can be VERY enlightening over time...) What I do is to make
sure there is a corner, or a wall area that is actually neat and
non-stimulating. It may only be 2 feet of room out of a 2000sqft house, but
hey....and when I'm "winding up" over the huge mess, I can stand there in the
clean spot and take a few deep breaths and LOOK at a non-choas spot. The visual
input is very important for me. Also, a white noise generator like a box fan
sometimes helps; I sometimes get where the sounds around me physically hurt to
hear. Sitting on dirt at the park a block away helps too---I can walk over
where the "river" (ditch) is and sit under a tree for ten minutes and feel more
grounded (literally!).

Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
http://www.polyclay.com

view my auctions at:
http://www.polyclay.com/Collage/auction.htm

I belong to the messy house club as well. I was raised in a spotless,
perfect house, so my head tells me I am bad, bad, bad whenever I see the
mess. I especially go ballistic when I can't find something! I get the
exact same feeling I did as a kid when my paernts were disgusted with
somethng I had or had not done. Wierd how this stuff follows us through
life.
KathyH
"Sjpolyclay" wrote in message
...
I guess everyone takes a turn spewing their guts here, right?

yep, Marisa, we can if we want to!

something you said earlier really resonated for me--
I used to come home, see this enormous mess, and feel it was a reflection
of
my inner state: a mess so huge and complex that it was impossible to deal
with, and so all-encompasing that there was no non-messed up spot to rest
my
eyes on.

This happens to me too. I live in a household with four very creatively
messy
people ,with me admittedly the the biggest "pile" culprit. Some days I
can
barely stand it--and in tracking my swings/insomnia/headache patterns, I
notice
that its right before my period that I can't stand the mess (tracking
patterns
on the calendar can be VERY enlightening over time...) What I do is to
make
sure there is a corner, or a wall area that is actually neat and
non-stimulating. It may only be 2 feet of room out of a 2000sqft house,
but
hey....and when I'm "winding up" over the huge mess, I can stand there in
the
clean spot and take a few deep breaths and LOOK at a non-choas spot. The
visual
input is very important for me. Also, a white noise generator like a box
fan
sometimes helps; I sometimes get where the sounds around me physically
hurt to
hear. Sitting on dirt at the park a block away helps too---I can walk over
where the "river" (ditch) is and sit under a tree for ten minutes and feel
more
grounded (literally!).

Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
http://www.polyclay.com

view my auctions at:
http://www.polyclay.com/Collage/auction.htm

I was raised in a spotless,
perfect house, so my head tells me I am bad, bad, bad whenever I see the
mess. I especially go ballistic when I can't find something!

Me too, we called Daddy "Mr. Clean" and my Mother is also rather phobic about
mess. Losing something calls forth the greatest of anxiety for her, with many
memorable episodes that my sister and I sometimes can laugh about...not usually
when somehting is missing tho, as we do the same thing ourselves. Its a control
issue---I'm supposed to know where stuff is--and when I don't, I have OBVIOUSLY
lost all control of everything, right? But now, I can feel in control by
allowing the cap to the pen to stay lost. Or replacing the lost scissors. Or
just by making the choice not to look in the same place for the 10th time....
Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
http://www.polyclay.com

view my auctions at:
http://www.polyclay.com/Collage/auction.htm

-Sarajane worte
--I'm supposed to know where stuff is--and when I don't, I have OBVIOUSLY
lost all control of everything, right?

OMG!!
You have hit it right on the head. That is exactly what I am feeling at
those times. I feel like an abosolute failure. Now that is a prime example
of black and white thinking.
KathyH

EXACTLY. Arrgh!!

--I'm supposed to know where stuff is--and when I don't, I have OBVIOUSLY
lost all control of everything, right?

OMG!!
You have hit it right on the head. That is exactly what I am feeling at
those times. I feel like an abosolute failure.


~~
Sooz
-------
"Selective deafness, it's a wonderful thing." ~Kathy N-V
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

Sure. And I think you'll get further if you substitute being gentle
with yourself for being mad at yourself.

Does there have to be a 'culprit'? Someone to be mad at and take it
out on? Or can you imagine your co-workers just being concerned about
you, and wondering how to help? That may be all that is up with them.

Deirdre

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:44:45 GMT, "marisa2" wrote:

I guess everyone takes a turn spewing their guts here, right?

Sjpolyclay wrote:

This happens to me too. I live in a household with four very creatively messy
people ,with me admittedly the the biggest "pile" culprit. Some days I can
barely stand it--and in tracking my swings/insomnia/headache patterns, I notice
that its right before my period that I can't stand the mess (tracking patterns
on the calendar can be VERY enlightening over time...) What I do is to make
sure there is a corner, or a wall area that is actually neat and
non-stimulating. It may only be 2 feet of room out of a 2000sqft house, but
hey....and when I'm "winding up" over the huge mess, I can stand there in the
clean spot and take a few deep breaths and LOOK at a non-choas spot. The visual
input is very important for me. Also, a white noise generator like a box fan
sometimes helps; I sometimes get where the sounds around me physically hurt to
hear. Sitting on dirt at the park a block away helps too---I can walk over
where the "river" (ditch) is and sit under a tree for ten minutes and feel more
grounded (literally!).

Really?

When the migranes get bad I don't want to hear a fan or anything else. Just
want to crawl into bed with the lights out and no talking allowed, especially by
DH (for some reason certain people's voices bother me more then others. I think
it has to do with the tones in their voices.)

I stopped eating dairy entirely, am getting more sleep (I sort of can't help it,
as I said in another posting...not sure how long that will last though, and
chronic insomnia isn't something you can just decide to cut out ), and have been
using the "techniques" they taught us to fight panic attachs when I feel the
edge of a migrane coming on. To my amazement, I can stop it from progressing
into a full-fledged roaring nausious headache this way sometimes.
I've lowered the migranes from 3-5 times a week to once every couple of weeks
this way.

Actually, I am surprised I didn't have one yesterday; getting all worked up like
that definately is a contributing factor. I sure am glad I didn't give in and
eat the free donut yesterday morning although I would've seemed to feel better
for a short while had I eaten it.

marisa2

You have just described my purse LOL
KathyH
"Marisa E Exter" wrote in message
...
Sjpolyclay wrote:
But now, I can feel in control by
allowing the cap to the pen to stay lost. Or replacing the lost
scissors. Or
just by making the choice not to look in the same place for the 10th
time....
Sarajane

Too bad for me that sometiems the 10th time I look in the same place, the
thing
really is there!?

marisa2

LOL! I've done that too.

It is as if my -fear- of not finding it made it invisible. I will
really 'see' it only when I have given up and resigned myself to never
finding it anywhere (and therefore relaxed a bit -- into
Surrender-state).

Deirdre

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:00:58 -0500, Marisa E Exter
wrote:

Sjpolyclay wrote:
But now, I can feel in control by
allowing the cap to the pen to stay lost. Or replacing the lost scissors. Or
just by making the choice not to look in the same place for the 10th time....
Sarajane

Too bad for me that sometiems the 10th time I look in the same place, the thing
really is there!?

marisa2

"marisa2" wrote in message
. com...
..........................
I used to come home, see this enormous mess, and feel it was a reflection
of
my inner state: a mess so huge and complex that it was impossible to deal
with, and so all-encompasing that there was no non-messed up spot to rest
my
eyes on. I would walk around the house muttering about everything and DH
would feel horrible (he feels like it is his responsibility to keep the
house clean because he isn't working. For a while he had me convinced of
that.

I think it's suitable for him to feel cleaning is his job. You should NOT
have to be the one responsible for working, responsible for dealing with
Depression, and also responsible for housekeeping. And you should not by
into cleaning being your job as a wife. Co-dependence rearing its ugly
head?


After being through the hospital program I got to see very vividly how
other
people interact with these meds. ........................
The overriding reason I don't want to take the medicines is because they
messed with my mind big time. The last set of them messed with me
emotionally as well (though for a long time we thought it was just not a
strong enough dose, and kept raising it...and I kept loosing more and more
touch with reality.) ..............


I don't do meds well. I have a worse side effects to benefit ratio than
usual. So I do very low doses. No way does it fix me, but the little it
helps me makes a big difference.


I don't know if I ever really have ups.

As I said, your "ups" could just barely bring you to normal in low end
bi-polar. It also occurs in a high end variation where a person is ranges
from manic to normal. But even without the bi-polar part, Depression still
usually goes through a sort of cycle.


They think I've had it since I was a teenager at LEAST after taking my
history. When I told my mom, she said she wished we had figured this out
sooner.

It's likely you've had Dysthymia most of your life (low level chronic
Depression). It commonly progresses to full blown Depression if untreated.

(*Lsorta* ..................

What does *Lsorta* mean?


And I want to also tell you that though I have a big injury
(Depression),
mentally I am healthier and stronger than I have ever been. I feel
better
about myself and my worth than I ever have. I am "better" than ever,
but
still seriously effected by Depression.

Is this through medication, other things, or both?

It's through everything I can manage. I do what I can for Depression. I
can't get much help from drugs, but what I do get makes a difference. The
biggest part has to do with understanding what is, and accepting the things
I cannot change. Depression can also be described as "overstimulation" so I
have to prioritise to chose what to spend my energy on, and along the way
I've gotten rid of some unhealthy thinking that takes up too much thought.
With the biggest one being Co-dependence.

It has been the cleaning out of unhealthy thinking that has given me such an
improvement in my mental health that I have been able to come to accept the
limitations of Depression.


I'm open to any tips although as you can see I'm biased against
medication.

Non-chemical things that help (keeping in mind that Depression is over
stimulation). Exercise give more oxygen to the brain. So does Ginkgo. Get
enough sleep. Yogic breathing (like Dierdre described) "belly breathing".
Prioritize. Give yourself some sort of structure (a hard thing for me). If
you are extroverted, being in the company of people, face to face, will
increase your energy. I used to find going into a group of people who had
no espectations of me like an AA meeting was useful. Vitamin B6 helps me,
especially before my period. Get enough Calcium.

There are good calming herbs out there like chammomile. Mexican yam and soy
help.

Check your thyroid, all 4 tests, because Hypothyroidism can cause
Depression. Check your female hormones because inadequate Estrogen can
cause trouble as well as interfere with absorbtion of medication.

But most of all simplify. Physical clutter contributes to mental
exhaustion. Toss out whatever you can both physical stuff, and intentions,
plans, etc (did I mention prioritize?). Even hiding clutter can help some,
temporarily).


(I have another appointment with my psychiatrist in 3 months. When he saw
me last week I was doing so well, relatively speaking, that he asked if I
wanted to make another appointment again or just "put him in my back
pocket". If I still feel lousy then, MAYBE I'll try something again.
Right
now I want to stick it out... as impossible as that seems some days.)

I really think your psychiatrist is not getting what's going on with you.


Also, Co-dependence is a huge contributor to Depression.

I know people in the program felt that that was a big problem for me.

I think I have worked hard on disentangling myself emotionally from my
parents and brother and cousin and
grandparents..............................


If "they" think Co-dependence is a problem for you, it probably is. Best
book I know of is Facing Codependence by Pia Mellody. Unfortunately it may
be out of print. You might try Amazon for it, even used. Next best would
be Co-Dependent No More. The workbook used with Facing Codependence is
Breakng Free.

Co-dependence is more than just disentangling, more than just re-acting.
And a lot of it has to do with developing a mature and healthy ego/sense of
self..

And it's tough, and I still have to be aware that it's a kind of natural
thing for me to fall into.

Tina